Home > Windows > Netraverse ships low-cost Win4Lin version Netraverse ships low-cost Win4Lin version Submitted by XYZ 2005-01-30 Windows 36 Comments Win4Lin has added a low-cost version of Win4Lin to their offerings. The “Win4Lin Home” version is targeted at home users, and costs $29.95. Read the full press release for more information. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 36 Comments 2005-01-30 10:56 pm Are Netraverse going to bring out a product supporting Windows 2000/XP ? I think Netraverse were interviewed on the Linux Show some time ago and asked about this – sadly I can’t remember what they said in reply. I suppose if they could they would. 2005-01-30 11:02 pm Win4lin is still limited to running Windows 9x. Since so much new Windows software requires win2k and XP, I can’t see this move as anything but marking down a product they know is at a dead end. The headline should be “Software past it’s expiration date reduced for quick sale”. 2005-01-30 11:03 pm Their FAQ says they are working on it. 2005-01-30 11:06 pm If you had read our 1-2 reviews of Win4Lin back in the day or by searching, you would find out the answer: no, there won’t be any NT/2k/XP/2k3 versions of Win4Lin, because it is not technically possible to apply the same trick on them as it is for Win9x/ME. Win9x/ME run on top of DOS. All Netraverse had to do was to “trick” Windows that Linux’s runtime DOS environment (not exactly emulation) in the kernel is a real DOS environment, and so they load them on top, on a “controlled environment”, and it’s really fast performance-wise. But that can not be done for NT/2k/XP/2k3 because these are full operating systems (based on a VMS/OS-2 hybrid design) and they are not running on top of DOS. So, no cake for these. You will need VMWare to run these in a real runtime mode (VMWare’s runtime trick is somewhat fast, but not faster than Win4Lin’s trick) or Bochs in emulation mode (slow no matter what because it’s 100% emulation and not shared runtime tricks). 2005-01-30 11:08 pm >Their FAQ says they are working on it. In which case they will be working on something like VMWare’s engine, NOT something like Win4Lin’s engine. And that’s why it would take too long: it would be a completely new product/engine, having to be rewritten from scratch, because the Win4Lin trick does not apply on NT/2k/XP/2k3. 2005-01-30 11:09 pm Win4Lin is extremely fast, cheap, and good enough for most people’s Windows needs. It is great for seeing how documents look in IE, or for using Word. Most Linux users have a Windows (and probably MS Word) license that came with their PC, but is going to waste. Win4Lin lets you actually use them. I’ve also had lots of luck using Win4Lin full-screen over VNC, allowing an old Pentium 120 act as a dumb terminal for web browsing, email and word processing. The best thing about this is that you can still use the computer that is acting as a server while the dumb terminal is in use (unlike Windows VNC). 2005-01-30 11:24 pm “Most Linux users have a Windows (and probably MS Word) license that came with their PC, but is going to waste. Win4Lin lets you actually use them.” Then why not just boot into Windows and use these applications. Since you payed for it, you might as well use it. Anyways, I would like to see some good Linux emulation software on Windows. While most of the better opensource programs can run natively in Windows, there are still a few that would be nice to just run in Windows without booting into Linux. 2005-01-31 12:26 am In which case they will be working on something like VMWare’s engine, I don’t know to what extend it is feasible, and I am no Windows expert, but remember that it is also possible to reimplement the hardware abstraction layer (HAL) of NT-based Windows releases. NOT something like Win4Lin’s engine. And that’s why it would take too long: it would be a completely new product/engine, having to be rewritten from scratch, because the Win4Lin trick does not apply on NT/2k/XP/2k3. True, not the same trick. Possibly other tricks. 2005-01-31 12:39 am They already have a version with Windows 2000 support underway right now. It is currently in beta. This information comes from the Win4Lin users mailing list, in which the developers also post frequently. 2005-01-31 12:45 am Ermm.. did you bother to do a bit of research before posting? Netraverse just had a closed beta started few days ago that runs win2k. And that’s why it would take too long, my ass. 2005-01-31 12:52 am Now I’ll have something other than WINE to run Windows OS based viruses so I won’t feel left out Craig 2005-01-31 1:02 am While most of the better opensource programs can run natively in Windows, there are still a few that would be nice to just run in Windows without booting into Linux. Check out coLinux. It’s quite impressive! 2005-01-31 1:18 am Then why not just boot into Windows and use these applications. Since you payed for it, you might as well use it. Because you have to quit all your programs to do so. If I want to quickly look at how a page looks in IE, a few minutes to reboot, then another few minutes to reboot into Linux is a waste. 2005-01-31 4:39 am Big problem with win4lin is that you have to patch your kernel. 2005-01-31 4:48 am The same is true of vmware 2005-01-31 5:03 am LOL, I just noticed there is no “Report Abuse” button for Eugenia. I would like to be the new exception. Just kidding Eugenia, you do great things with OSNEOWS. Anyway, does anyone know when a Win4Lin with Win2k or XP support is scheduled for release? 2005-01-31 5:45 am According to some developer’s posts on the win4lin mailing lists, the next version will not require a patched kernel. 2005-01-31 6:50 am ” Now I’ll have something other than WINE to run Windows OS based viruses so I won’t feel left out Craig ” http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222&from=rss Viruses run just as poorly under Wine as do lots of programs. 2005-01-31 7:07 am check out colinux. it’s quite impressive You beat me to the punch. Most people already have XP that came with their machine. Run real windows and real linux at the same time. That’s what I do http://www.colinux.org 2005-01-31 7:12 am Another cool thing about colinux is that you can have gentoo images, debian images, whatever and you don’t have to reboot or monkey around with partitions. Close down your debian image and start up your gentoo image. 2005-01-31 7:23 am Are you sure that you need to patch the kernel in order to get VMWare working? 2005-01-31 8:34 am I found this in the win4lin-users archive: https://www.netraverse.com:9100/lists/win4lin-users/Message/8120.htm… The Win2000 version will indeed require no kernel patch, and it is in beta testing. 2005-01-31 9:23 am This is form a reply a dev sent to me: Win4Lin Pro will support windows 2000 and Windows XP. XP support will be incomplete for the first release, but will be better in follow up releases. 2000 is the initial focus. Win4Lin Pro will also lose kernel dependencies. Estimated release is mid to late February. 2005-01-31 9:31 am Yoper has Win4Lin pre-patched not on the recent kernel (sadly) but on the coming kernel and kernel 2.6.7-5 Which means you don’t have to patch / compile or download anything. I hope Win4Lin/Vmware/NVidia pre-patched kernels will become always the standard for Yoper. 2005-01-31 11:56 am Xandros, has and always has had, a kernel pre-patched for Win4Lin. 2005-01-31 12:20 pm I wonder how many distro have their *default* kernels prepatched. Downloading a Win4Lin-kernel is not necessarily the same thing. Mandrake, Suse, Lycoris, Gentoo all have prepatched-Kernels in their repository. Trouble is when you need Nvidia / Win4Lin / Vmware prepatched all in one kernel. Having a default kernel with all these does make life easier. 2005-01-31 3:28 pm I wish these so-called experts would do a little research before popping off as if they know what they are talking about… Win4Lin Windows 2000 version is in full field test and has been for about a week. And it REQUIRES NO KERNEL PATCH; even better than VMware! 2005-01-31 3:51 pm How fast is this, compared with vmware? I’ve been using VMWare for a while, but if win4lin is only $30, I’d be willing to try it out. Has anyone done speed comparisons? 2005-01-31 5:34 pm It is faster, quite a lot faster at some times due to VMWARE emulating a whole computer and win4lin is not (but VMWARE is faster than I thought it would be before I tried it ;-)). 2005-01-31 5:51 pm vmware allows you to compile a kernel module which does not require you to actually patch the kernel. win4lin requires an actual patch, not a module. 2005-01-31 6:19 pm Win2k and XP support is great. However, Win4Lin will become a more viable product, if and when they can get full DirectX support. So many programs (not just games anymore) are using DirectX. Does anyone know, if Netraverse is working on full DirectX support? Thanks 2005-01-31 6:31 pm In a comparison on the netraverse site between Win4Lin Home and Win4Lin 5 it says the Dedicated Memory Footprint of home is “Maximum 64MB”. Am I right in assuming that this means win4lin home can only use 64mb of ram for windows? This seems like an extremely small amount. How could you run large applications without using tons of swap space? Someone please tell me im wrong… 2005-01-31 8:14 pm You DO realize, all of you… That the lead-time for this article was probably MORE than a week? And that at the time it was written, that there was no Win4Lin that supported Windows 2k/XP was true? 2005-02-01 1:34 am too many people misunderstand how Win4Lin works. It is not a hardware emulator like Bochs, VirtualPC, etc. It is similar to VMWare, but even more similar to DOSEMU. In fact, the only thing now separating DOSEMU from Win4Lin is an implementation of vwin32.vxd Win32 kernel API – DOSEMU already runs Windows for Workgroups 3.11 as a native V86 client application (meaning that it is very fast). WFW3.11 and Win9x have very few architectural differences, and this is what enables DOSEMU to cover all of these possibilities. 2005-02-01 5:51 am believe me. if you try 128Mb or 256Mb you will hardly see any real difference. Win4Lin has memory managed very optimized. Ive been running Win4Lin for a long time now and never need more than 64Mb. This is Windows 98 – remember .. at the time having 64 Mb was like having 512 Mb Ram today. 2005-02-01 5:54 am but my life depends on it I hope Win4Lin is indeed coining up with a Windows 2000 version. So I can dump Vmware for good.