The latest in a series of desktop Linux related articles from NerdSyndrome, The Power of Community on the Linux Desktop examines how community driven open source Linux distribtutions such as Ubuntu and Fedora Core are promising to change the way we use desktop computers for the better.
The Power of Community on the Linux Desktop
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Gnome has progressed nicely since 2.6, OpenOffice.org is coming out with 2.0 soon which looks very nice and functions even better. I think Unix and Linux have been ready for quite a while but just not as polished as one would have hoped.
Community? Apparently this author hasn’t knoticed what’s been happening at Gentoo these last couple years.
A good bit of an article, appreciated the fact that you included things that don’t work well. However, I wish you had included some references to making Linux and Windows work better together, such as mounting Windows partitions on Linux. I know that when I set my system up I had to rely heavily on a friend to assist with that. Not everyone is so lucky.
I believe this article does a pretty good job at summing
up the state of the linux desktop.
I’m a WindowsXP user at the moment, although I recently
attempted to switch back to linux w/ my new laptop
(before I had used my old p2 laptop and my 2 desktops
which the older one had been parted and the newer one
was sold) but I ran into problems when trying to use
ndiswrapper to get my linksys WUSB54GS (usb wireless g)
working.
But the author has a good point about windows users
starting to favor open-source software over crappy
native software, and even spyware filled software.
Although my opinion might be biased since I’m also
a linux user, I favor gaim especially over any other
IM client and so does my woman (she doesn’t use linux).
I also use Firefox, although it took me a while to
convert since I was used to many of the features
in Maxthon (IE replacement), although now I’ve found
most of the features I need in firefox extensions.
Some of which need to add some better options to them,
but I’ve found myself able to leave Maxthon completely
behind (except IE for windows update).
Now I just need to get my woman hooked on Firefox since
I got her hooked on Maxthon.
Great article! Many of the aspects it highlights are deep truths and many are good points by the author…
I can see too this immense growth of the linux desktop and…it just keeps me anxious!
To the anonymous refering to Gentoo: You’re probably right dude, but the author is cleverly directing windows readers of the article to Ubuntu/Fedora since these distros appear to be more easy/user-friendly.
“Community? Apparently this author hasn’t knoticed what’s been happening at Gentoo these last couple years.”
Yes, Gentoo has an excellent community… But the author
was only comparing the distros to their parent distros to
show the benefits of coming up with a large community
effort aimed at packaging the current distro for
desktop users.
He wasn’t in any way saying their communities are
better than others, except maybe in regard to other
debian/redhat hybrids.
The desktop is all about graphics. The graphics subsystem on Linux is still infant. But even in its infancy, it holds up well against platforms that have a mature graphics subsystem like Windows and OS X.
Given all the hurdles open source developers have to scale, especially working with closed specifications and proprietary graphics drivers, I must say I am very impressed Linux has come this far on the desktop.
Except for highly specialized and professional applications, there’s nothing you can do on any other desktop platform that you can’t do on a Linux desktop, and sometimes do it better. The future looks bright not bleak, and when a powerful graphics subsystem is in place, it won’t be long before this underdog operating system is a force to reckon with on the desktop.
Despite it’s rawness, I already use Linux, GNOME in particular, as my primary desktop environment and I prefer it over Windows XP or Apple’s OS X.
Open Office suffers from lack of vision I’m afraid and can’t compete with MSOffice making Linux a bad option for many desktop users.
Here is a little something all OOo developers should take a look at
http://www.crystalgraphics.com/presentations/charts.main.asp
Why is it that OOo doesn’t start supporting charts in a proper way? Look at this and implement a wide range of charts, something which is highly appreciated by many companies.
hopefully OOo will be competitive one day though.
IMHO, there are two types of community. Firstly there is the [1]”Build it from source” community that use Gentoo, Slackware & Debian and build everything from Sources. Then there is the [2]Ubuntu,Mandrake & Fedora type of Community where users install pre-built packages. (I know there are other community distro’s).
There goals of their users is different.
[1] want total control of how their system works
[2] want to use the system with the minimum of fuss.
Both have admiral goals and can so some extent feed off each other.
The artcile was overall pretty good but I think he glossed over one vital point that is stopping wider adoption of Linux based systems on the desktop.
This is the problem of device support. In particular Graphics and Wireless Drivers. I understand that there is a lot of IP in GPU’s but the quality of many drivers is very poor.
Then you get the likes of Broadcom who seemingly think that Linux does not exist.
If there is enough commercial pressure from the likes of IBM,RedHat & Novell to get improvements in these key areas then the future of Linux on the Desktop will be much rosier. And, if this happens, the strength of both Communities will continue to grow.
The desktop is all about graphics. The graphics subsystem on Linux is still infant. But even in its infancy, it holds up well against platforms that have a mature graphics subsystem like Windows and OS X.
X11 is a standard, but Xlib is too low level to do any serious GUI work with. Linux could be ahead of Windows and Mac right now if freedesktop.org had come around 5 or 6 years ago, a standard toolkit had been introduced, and X development hadn’t been so stagnant.
That said, it’s nice to see Gtk+ have Cairo as a dependancy and Opengl Xservers being actively worked.
Great read, really captured what alot of us long time users have been seeing around Linux and its move into the desktop environment. One thing stands out, Ubuntu is the only real player. Ubuntu has stable and bleeding edge packages and graphical interface to its package system. So wheres the coinciding features in FC3? FC3 has been getting stable but still has some major cruft floating around in it, while its up2date is GUIfied and slick, it’s still no match for yum’s power. Conversely Yum while powerful lacks a decent GUI you can point desktop users at.
To top my little list of gripes, Ubuntu and FC3 needs to pick up the pace on getting apps through testing and out to the users. I was shocked to find Firefox 0.9 and Thunderbird 0.8 were default in Ubuntu installs. I’ve havn’t seen any beep-media-player or working fluxbox packages for Ubuntu either.
This is a start but there is only one distro with its foot in the door.
I was shocked to find Firefox 0.9 and Thunderbird 0.8 were default in Ubuntu installs.
Ubuntu Firefox 0.9 was heavily patched. There were/are issues with 1.0.
What would be even better, is if someone like my dad could double click (or right click -> select install package, etc.) on an RPM or a DEB package from his desktop, and sit back while the software installed itself on the system.
FYI, it is possible to do that on Fedora Core 3 with System-Installer-Package. Either double-click (depending the mouse configuration) or right-click to install the package. It also works when you download a package from a browser.
The default media player in Ubuntu (totem) is rubbish, I think it’s going to be cut for the Hoary release, you need xine or mplayer if you want to actually be able to view video.
As for fluxbox packages, well, I’m on fluxbox now, seems to work fine for me…
apt-get install fluxbox
…
restart x
log in
Default media player for both Fedora and Ubuntu uses GStream version of Totem which is very buggy at the moment. Use Xine version instead.
As Finalzone said, Totem is not to blame, because it is only a frontend. It can use GStreamer or Xine as a backend. GStreamer is still very buggy, but Totem with Xine works quite well.
gstreamer has been buggy for how long now? it’s supposed to be THE backend for all this multimedia stuff on Gnome and I believe KDE eventually….so exactly what is going on?
“Ubuntu Firefox 0.9 was heavily patched. There were/are issues with 1.0.”
The only issues are the fact that trying to install ff 1.0 on unbuntu wont work unless the user does an rm -r .mozilla.
Fact is ubuntu’s resfusal to update their repositories with newer stable versions of some packages is a major turn off to a lot of people. And no upgrading to warthy is not an option.
It’s not that GStreamer is badly done, it’s just that it isn’t finished, so there’s still many features missing, features that one might consider essential.
“Open Office suffers from lack of vision I’m afraid and can’t compete with MSOffice making Linux a bad option for many desktop users. ”
Quite honestly people like you crack me up. Not only are you directly comparing OO to MS Office, an expensive proprietary office suite, but now you throw in another program (proprietary and expensive again) that runs on top of MS office, and wonder why a free Opensource program does’t have the same functionality. MS office doesn’t have the features you want, I don’t see you saying that it will never make it and be competitive.
While comparing features should always be a consideration when picking software, price point and value proposition need to be there also. With the arrival of OO 2.0, I think OO will makes sense to a lot of companies IMHO.
“With the arrival of OO 2.0, I think OO will makes sense to a lot of companies IMHO.”
Actually, it most likey will not. The reason I say this is because most who advocate alternative software do not take into account that people who are “power users” of MS Office; who habitually use the features that most OO advocates claim that people dont use anyway, really have no interest in learning a new suite that may or may not have the functionality they need right away.
Imagine that you are an Administrative assistant who has the glorious task of writing documents and memos for your jerk boss for a significant portion of your day, and have to take the time out figure out how to execute a function in this new suite that you could have done almost instinctively with the suite that you have been using for years.
There is also the issue of lack of 100% compatability.
Any one who has actually worked for any significant amount of time knows that this is a must. It cannot be compramised. People and their work are often judged by the quality of their documents(whether if be right or wrong).
When good articles like this were the norm at OSNews, not the exception. Sad, isn’t it?
Anyway, great to have an article that actually talks about linux with some intelligence, and doesn’t just focus on the install.
Interesting, this is the first time I’ve seen someone articulate the ‘boxed’ v. ‘download’ issue. I still wodner if linux, as a whole, neesd some sort of retail presence, but I am aware that the linux desktop moves way to fast for retail distribution as a whole.
For the non-gamer, however, Linux has everything you could want or need to use your computer.
And when did hell freeze over? LMAO!!!
//Actually, it most likey will not. The reason I say this is because most who advocate alternative software do not take into account that people who are “power users” of MS Office; who habitually use the features that most OO advocates claim that people dont use anyway, really have no interest in learning a new suite that may or may not have the functionality they need right away.//
Exceptionally accurate statements, M. The FOSS/OSS folks simply don’t understand that this is how *real* business works. Microsoft is the 10,000 lb gorilla, and will be around for YEARS TO COME. Unfortunately, this is true. We gotta play ball, or lose clients.
Gentoo rocks, but I think it’s aimed more at linux geeks. IMHO Ubuntu & Fedora are far likelier to wean Harry Homeowner off of Windows than Gentoo (or any other distro with primarly source-based software management). This article is about easy-to-use desktop distros.
Well all I can say is that I understand what you are saying but disagree. This is coming from the point of view form a man who moves people from Office to OO on a weekly basis. Not just one or two people, but entire companies.
With that said, we have never put anybody back to Office once moving them to OO.
There have of course been those times when moving a certain user just didn’t make sense, but that has overwhelmingly been the exception rather than the rule.
Guess we’ve just been lucky. 🙂
//Guess we’ve just been lucky. :-)//
Either that, or you haven’t moved many US companies with >200 people to OO.
Or, the companies you moved are pretty much self-contained, which would also explain your success.
Don’t misunderstand … I actually envy companies that can do this, but the VAST MAJORITY cannot.
“Either that, or you haven’t moved many US companies with >200 people to OO.”
We have moved private companies, schools, and non-profits that report to government departments. We are scheduled to do two school districts this summer.
If you find the lack of up-to-date applications a problem, re-reed the section on the backports from warty, you add a new repository and get the latest and greatest stuff for ubuntu…for instance Gaim 1.1.1 also see the backports forum for more info http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/
I agree with the Gentoo ricer above; the article went way too far towards implying that Ubuntu and Fedora were somehow the only / first / best distributions in terms of developing a community. Many other distros have been working this way for years before Ubuntu existed and Fedora development opened up.
it’s getting some serious work at the moment, actually, they’re finally getting proper DVD support and an interface to use proprietary codecs. Once that’s done and the bugs are worked out (it’s much less buggy than it used to be in any case), it’ll be better than xine.
bwahahahaha, don’t make me laugh. I temped as an admin assistant for a while. My colleagues were amazed when I introduced them to Excel’s conditional formatting. *sigh*
Not for nothing, but I am having a hardtime believing that
these organizations of which you speak are comprised of a significant number of people who where advanced to intermediate users of word….especially considering that you profess that some of these orgs are non-profit organizations who I am sure submit documentation to the government agencies that must be 100% in align with the agency’s standards. Many of these reports are submitted to congress, so excuse me if I am having serious doubts about what you just posted.
Moving people over to something as seemingly trivial as a new office suite takes TIME.
“bwahahahaha, don’t make me laugh. I temped as an admin assistant for a while. My colleagues were amazed when I introduced them to Excel’s conditional formatting. *sigh*”
…and what exactly is your point?
What did your colleagues lack of skill with respect to Excel
have to do with people who us the features of MS Office on a daily basis?
I was suggesting that the original poster’s belief that there are many office workers who customarily use the advanced features of MS Office is a little…optimistic.
“I was suggesting that the original poster’s belief that there are many office workers who customarily use the advanced features of MS Office is a little…optimistic.”
If you read carefully what was written in the post you will notice that it was not addressing most office workers. It was refering to those who’s work substantially enlist the functionality of the MS Office suite. The fact that your co-workers didnt know what they where doing hardly generates an accurate description of anything besides that they never had a reason to use these features.
Prehaps you should consult with your local competent tech writer who uses MS Office and ask if they are not frequent users of these features.
There is a reason why people/comporations/organizations havent been switching to the free and very capable alternative.
Aren’t both Fedora and Ubuntu backed up by two companies?
The articles seems like a very balanced opinion piece. However ,from the get go saying that *nix, I guess GNU/Linux lusers in this case, users wished that their DE/WM of choice had MS-esque Copy ‘N Paste features is kinda …. not true. I’ve used MS-Windows and I can tell you that I wished that it had a C’nP feature like X11 where all the C’nP could be done with the mouse, you know copy with the left mouse button paste with the center button that be a real time saver.
Also for the person who pointed out that Debian is source based, what the heck?! I can tell you, from experience, that Debian’s users do not like compiling from source they prefer all neat and tidy binary packages. Gentoo, I hate that distro. If I want something that’s 1337 and hardcore I’ll just go rice up my $FlavourBSD boxen.
Lastly, for the MS-Office troll. I’ve been around a great deal of Office users, and can tell you that 90% of the users don’t even use 1% of the features in that suite. They can hardly type at an adequate speed, let alone use fancy key strokes like CTL+ALT+Backflip+Pray. Macros? Forget about it.
“Not for nothing, but I am having a hardtime believing that . . . ”
LOL, you can choose to believe or not, IMO you don’t WANT to believe. We have been in business since 2000 and delivering FOSS solutions to our customers since 2001. We currently employ 15 and are also US support for Mandrake’s Dedicated Server Program.
As I see it, the big difference between the two of us is that you are convinced it can’t be done and my company is doing it. BTW, one of the non-profits is not only using 00, but they are doing it through Linux on the desktop. They report to a number of state agencies including Health, Education and DOC. They have about 100 users.
During Spring Break we will be converting a charter school to a 100% Linux network also. So again, you don’t need to believe . . . there are still people who don’t believe we have ever set foot on the moon either, so you are in good company.
Actually, no where in any of my posts where I said it cannot be done. All you have given is anecdotes of what you may or may not have done. What I expressed in my posts is my doubt that these organizations just droped MS Office as quickly and completely as you have implied in your posts.
I could sit here and post that I regularly set up dual homed BGP implementations using Linux instead of Cisco for major government agencies, but anyone who has had any appreciable time planning and implementing WAN connections would more than likely view such a post with suspicion; as it is plausible,but more than likely not true, at least not in it’s entirety
However you wish to view it is fine with me, really. I have simply stated my experiance, nothing more nothing less. Whether you believe it or not will not change it.
I have enjoyed our exchange, but I think the time for anything constructive to come from it has passed.
Thanks
Garret
kudos
Fact is ubuntu’s resfusal to update their repositories with newer stable versions of some packages is a major turn off to a lot of people. And no upgrading to warthy is not an option.
What the heck are you talking about? Ubuntu does give new stable versions every six months. I don’t know any OS that puts out new stable versions (with as high of quiality) in a shorter amount of time.
I guess you are complaining that Ubuntu doesn’t change its releases after they release them. There is a reason for this- messing with a stable product can make it UNSTABLE if you don’t spend resources getting it to work. The resources Ubuntu would spend on this are (more wisely) being used to make the next stable release. If you want the newest stuff…use Hoary (Warty is current version) or use the backports. It is a valid option. I use it daily…
You don’t like the 6 month cycles? Then fine, leave Ubuntu alone and refrain from bitching about it. Listen people- NO DISTRO WILL MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY. You want stable and extremely bleeding edge, two things that are mututally exclusive.
I read the backports link (backports.ubuntuforums.org) and it looks like an interesting development. I agree with the founder of the backports page and with Michelle – if a new truly stable version of software replaces a version that is either stable, but very outdated, or worse not even the stable version, it should be offered as an update (as they are on Fedora I believe). I’m sure some programs are very tied into the guts of the system and maybe it wouldn’t work so well to update those. But Firefox and OpenOffice seem pretty isolated, I can download versions of those for Windows and they don’t care which Windows I’m using – how hard is it to use standard Linux versions with very little distro modification (throw a few icons in distro specific locations for example)?
The thing that’s frustrating about Fedora is the second class nature when it comes to commercial use. I work in engineering, and I know of teams that use Redhat 9 because that (or Enterprise versions of Redhat) is what some engineering applications support – I’m not sure I see these vendors supporting Fedora anytime soon. They may never support Ubuntu either, but if they do, Ubuntu has pledged not to make the kind of split Redhat did with Fedora.
To tell you the truth, I really wish there had never been the mess with FreeBSD and AT&T, I think there is a good chance FreeBSD would have a lot bigger community now than Fedora and Ubuntu combined and I could use FreeBSD instead of Solaris at work. And FreeBSD’s documentation beats any Linux distro’s I’ve ever seen – especially Fedora’s (none hardly – you have to look at Redhat stuff) or Ubuntu’s (not too impressed yet).
Dara
and _my_ point was, given that the power users / use-the-edit-menu-to-paste users ratio is something like 5/95, that leaves about a 95% market opportunity for OO.o. Not too shabby.
Gnome is a desktop environment but without desktop users. I think we shall all stick to KDE and forget about gnome.
“I have enjoyed our exchange, but I think the time for anything constructive to come from it has passed. ”
Thank God for that.
Mike, undo that top button, your choking. Keep the useless arguments on some IRC channel somewhere…OO is what it is.
Nice article BTW, keep em coming.
….Ad Hominem,
the last refuge for those who have absolutely nothing of any real potency to add to an agrument….