Despite their best attempts, Linux software companies say they are still having a hard time luring average consumers away from the Windows environment–but that may not necessarily be a bad thing. Novell’s vice president: “(Linux on the desktop) is not the sexy story that it used to be. However, there are some very steady and irreversible trends.”
Haha, that’s Novell’s vice presidents saying is so funny. Truth is that Linux is “sexy” now, it’s top of trendlist. So if they can’t do it now when being top of list how are they gonna do it later. I think big problem is that these companies that offer Linux aren’t giving anything good for money. Why buy Novell Linux if you get same stuff in free Linux? If they would spent more time and money to fix those problems that are obstacle in Linux way to desktop then maybe they could do it. Instead they wait for community to give it them to free. Stop leeching and start bringing some value to customers. Good products that won’t need to be OpenSource or even free.
Are you high, or is english just not your first language?
> Why buy Novell Linux if you get same stuff in free Linux?
You’re paying Novell/RedHat/Whoever to package the stuff and deal the boring aspects of security patches and such.
Also, to flatten the learning curve, by providing a cohesive administration interface.
Businesses aren’t individuals; tehy r teh anti-1337.
Linux on the desktop becomes better and better. So every year more and more people actually COULD switch to Linux. But let’s not forget that switching to Linux costs you time to learn a new system, and that is something lots of people are not willing to pay as long as the current system is good enough and does not cost more money (in fact, it does not cost more, cracked copies are available everyhere).
From what I hear amongst my friends, at least 50% of them use their computer in a way which definitely would make it possible for them to go with Linux. Only one of them actually switched over, because the windows drivers of his hardware were messing each other up.
In effect, what is needed for people to switch over in massive numbers is not only an equaly good or slightly better product, but also some sort of “push” from the currently used product. And that push is not big enough right now.
So Linux on the Desktop is there, what is not there is a necessity to switch over to that desktop.
The real problem is that most people do not see the real cost of using Windows – in time. Those around me using Windows spend time cleaning up the systems or it just gets slower and slower until it is cheeper for them to just get a new computer than to fix up the old one. Or if they are employers they see the cost of training their staff to use a new OS – but do not see the cost of constant bits of training on how to use Window with out screwing it up and the maintaince to fix it every time someone succeeds to do just that. I have seen this up close and personal — we switched about half our systems over to Linux desktops – what happened is… For about a month our work load mostly training went up – but two months later it had fallen to levels of about 2/3 of the old all Windows days.
The reason is simple — after the workers learned how to use the Linux desktops we stopped getting calls from staff memebers using the Linux desktops – and I mean nothing – nota – zilch – Now on the other had the Window machines still are crapping out at a regular rate. What more – I now hear employees crabbing when they get stuck using one of the Windows machines – and several of the employees have switch their home machines over – I know – they asked me for the install disks.
To see the real value in Linux you must stay with it long enough to start using like Linux not like Windows. It is not until you have been using Linux for a while that you find that feared would be a problem is not. Take installing software – you wind up intalling software on linux amost as often as you run into a problem install on Windows. 99% of everything you want to do on Windows requires that you install software. On the other hand 95% of everything you wish to do on Linux the software is already installed – and most of the rest of the time the software is on the original install disks and usually is just a couple of mouse clicks away. I have a brother that does not even know what the command line is yet he has run SuSE for two years now – and I can count one hand the number of times that he has called me for help and yes I will still have fingers leftover.
A good portion of the public has actually “heard of” Linux by now and it’s gaining mindshare.
It’s also actually becoming feasible as a desktop (very) slowly but surely.
I’m just tired of hearing this garble year after year…”the year of the Linux desktop.” Give it a rest…the market will decide which year Linux makes any kind of progress (in market share) on the desktop.
“Linux software companies say they are still having a hard time luring average consumers away from the Windows environment”
Who cares, the majority of Windows users are dumb as a stick anyway, unless the desktop works like a toaster they won’t bother with it. If they are forced to think, they’ll squeal and run back to Wintendo.
Linux desktops are already here.
for some reason i find peeple will do anything to avoid thinking. and deer lord dont even bother trying to get them to learn. linux may for ever only be used by thouse who are willing to engauge there brain. i dont see this as a bad thing though.
for some reason i find peeple will do anything to avoid thinking. and deer lord dont even bother trying to get them to learn. linux may for ever only be used by thouse who are willing to engauge there brain. i dont see this as a bad thing though.
Good job engaging your brain there. An elitist attitude usually works better if you can spell, especially when you’re talking about *OTHERS* avoiding thinking. Maybe you weren’t consciously avoiding it, but it sure seemed to happen to you anyway.
“peeple”
“deer”
“don’t”
“forever”
“those”
“engage”
have you ever thought that the guy might not use english as their native language
bigot !
and that is killing a serious Linux image.
I’m a Mac user in a mixed Windows/Linux/Mac environment: 10/40/50%, from 30/50/20% one year ago, btw. Daily I have to listen to people who keep telling me how brilliant their Linux system is. They also inform me on how terrible Mac is and how they pitty me. A lot of times however they come to me to have documents scanned or edited, to use photoshop, Keynote or Pages or to print some holiday poster on our A2 printer. I have no problems with that …. I mean, from their Linux boxes they rule my core routers so they are a good tool for some jobs, but those users really should respect other people who just need different tools to do different work.
The situation however gets really untasty when some flavour of Open Source OS that isn’t used by those jocks enters the building . Then we see this turfwar ignite which fierceness can only be matched by that of horny deers fighting to mate.
God … the Debian and – to a lesser extent – FreeBSD camp here went down on people using SuSe, Dragonfly, Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo and you name it, like those distri’s are from another planet. I don’t get that at all. It’s behavior like that, that gives Linux that geeky and immature image and that really doesn’t help to make something popular for the desktop in corporate environments. And btw, having used SuSe 9.3 on a notebook, I must say it makes for a very good impression, even while switching locations, networks, etc. It doesn’t come close to the user friendlyness of OS X, but it’s a h*ll of a lot better than the Debian and Ubunte flavors I tried a few months ago. Please note: I don’t use a terminal and don’t do anything with a command prompt… but it certainly is ready enough for the desktop here, so I will phase out the final Windows machines. But I already know that I will get the “Why Novell” discussion with the Debian freaks …..
Think of it what you want, but Novell is out here in papers, magazines, daily radio commercials with their “Linux” adds and that is good for Open Source, good for Linux and yes, also good for Novell. But if that last one isn’t allowed, please tell me why you zealots make such efforts to migrate a happy Mac user like me to your distri flavor of the day.
Software:
What about sponsoring consumer oriented projects like video editing, dvd authoring and personal web page publishing, kids games ? Only Linspire seems to be interested in some of that….
What about licensing these technologies (like video codecs and other) that will not be de-patented any time soon and that everyone wants ?
It wouldn’t hurt to sponsor the port of a couple of block buster games every year…
Hardware :
What about a partnership with some well known e-tailer for a linux compatible section covering all kind of kit ? What about sponsoring some drivers where they are really lacking ?
Communication: What about earmarking a common budget to appear in mainstream press, websites over a long period of time ?
Until these guys do these things together, then they stand little chance to make a buck.
The opensource side of Linux will still strive though but in an almost invisible manner from the rest of the world.
I just got finished re-installing Windows XP last night after replacing my hard drive. First I had to wait on hold on the telephone to get a new activation key from Microsoft, then I had to install the basic system and reboot, then I had to track down my CD containing motherboard drivers and reboot, then I had to activate my product, then I had to validate my product, then I had to run Windows Update over and over and reboot and reboot….and tonight I can start re-installing applications and rebooting…oh, and figure out why I can’t turn off windows messenger or uninstall outlook.
If I had installed Ubuntu, Xandros, Libranet, or any number of Linux distributions, I would have a fully functional desktop in 45 minutes with all hardware drivers included, all aplications installed, zero virus threats, a working firewall, and free upgrades of all software from the internet without requiring a reboot.
Running Linux already is easier and better than Windows. Most people just don’t know it.
“All applications installed …”
“Free upgrades of all software …”
Just like the Windows install I use. WordPad is a fine Editor, Outlook Express works well (If you are 1337 enough to configure it right).
“Running Linux …”
I am sure you meant “Installing Linux …” as your post mentions installing, but not running the OS.
To run/use an OS is very different to installing it, and for most non-techies the installation is done for you. A lot fo “Is it ready for the desktop” arguments talk about install, but this is pretty irrellevant to the average user who has to ring tech-support to find where the “any” key is.
Lets hear about Running/Using the OS.
First I had to wait on hold on the telephone to get a new activation key from Microsoft
BS! A lot more components have to change on your system than just a new HD to have to request a new activation key. Why can’t some of you just come out and say what you really are, Linux users that troll boards and can’t sell Linux on it’s own merits but instead have to throw out false stories about activation keys and daily BSOD’s.
“BS! A lot more components have to change on your system than just a new HD to have to request a new activation key.”
Tell me this then, Why is it that the 5 WinXP Home computers that I maintain for friends/family all needed to be re-activated within a month of a complete re-install? All of them are store bought retail copies (each one passed the WGA). I/they didn’t change one piece of hardware. I repeat, I/they didn’t change any hardware. The only thing I did was install updates to software (Not one of them needed to be re-activated the same day I updated). Microsoft really needs to fix these kinds of bugs, and soon.
Forgot, I just had to re-activate one of those machines yet again yesterday. I didn’t change any hardware but that was the reason why again. Luckily, this time I didn’t have to call it in (web activation worked). All I did was update software. This really gets annoying after awhile.
I had to do the activation song and dance when reinstalling XP on a friend’s laptop recently.
You might want to consider that your experience does not correlate with everyone’s experience.
(Running Linux already is easier and better than Windows. Most people just don’t know it) yeah…. sure….
….no problem. I ran linux on different computers with
mostly sad results.
Our entire company and most of our partners have already moved to Linux desktops. We already saved thousands in licensing fees, everyone likes it, and we don’t have any virus problems anymore. In addition to being more cost effective Linux has proven easier to maintain, more stable, and more secure. Whether the zealots like it or not, Linux has already become a superior desktop OS.
Why? Because that’s the year I started using Linux as my OS of course. Oh wait, do they mean the year large percentages of people start using Linux? So what, like 10% or something of computer users have to be using Linux before it’s The Year Of Desktop Linux (TYODL)? How silly.
It was TYODL as soon as it became usable as a desktop. If it’s based on numbers, when is the year of desktop Mac supposed to come along?
Apparently in 2005 linux userbase surpassed mac userbase. I guess that was TYODL…….
Well, according to IDC and Gartner 2005 is/was supposed to surpass the mac.
Of course they’re not switching over, dr17 is not finished yet.
The question is when.
Microsoft’s latest move with checking product codes for genuine copies is a near godsend for our camp. As linux users, if we want to launch an attack against microsoft’s castle we need to look to pirates. Find out what they use their machine for.(start finding out if there are linux apps for the same job) Then just ask them to use linux for a short period.
It’s worked for me in a few cases. They’ll see linux isn’t hard to use and you’ll have opened the door. That’s the biggest step. Not having to worry about necessary updates, defragging, getting spammed by all the icons at the bottom right, and other such windows problems far outweigh the problems linux has.
Look for a windows pirate near you.
I’m waiting for the commercial Linux distro that does exactly what Apple is doing, but better.
which is?
I’m waiting for the commercial Linux distro that does exactly what Apple is doing, but better.
Word.
Part of me is tempted to put a linux distro on DH’s work computer because I can’t get him to stop using IE, and I’m sick of decrufting his box on a monthly basis.
But then I’d have to deal with the fact that
(1)DH Uses Outlook and is there a good easy way to port his emails into Thunderbird? (Seriously, if there is, I want to know it.)
(2) DH visits a lot of sites that have streaming video and flash. I’ve had nothing but *nightmares* trying to these working whenever I dip my toe into the Linux pool.
(3) DH needs download, make with the double clicky, and software automagically installs. (Something “easy” like Synaptic would be way beyond him. The CLI? Don’t make me laugh.)
At home DH has co-opted my iBook 600 and has no problem with Safari.
I’ve yet to have a single problem with his accidently installing toolbars, etc.
Given his simple needs, I see a mac-mini in the future.
‘m waiting for the commercial Linux distro that does exactly what Apple is doing, but better
That’s the thing until it’s actually a lot better than what’s already being offered, then linux on the desktop will be a hobbyist and semi-thin client thing.
But no one has put together the complete pieces.
Install — Choice between text for the hardcore and a good anaconda style gui install. Hardware detection to allow for the installation of optimized packages for your cpu gentoo has multiple images even for higher stage installs and to enable dma by default on both hard drive and the cdrom/dvd Suse does this for the harddrive and I think Mandriva does this too.
Postinstall — If Suse and others can include a download script for the MS ttf fonts for install by choice for the user after install then a great tool like Ubuntu new install script that downloads all the codecs and such for seamless media playback should be included with any new distro. The community has given you the tools. You don’t have to use them and get into legal crap but you can include them on the install somewhere.
Grub — Gui tools for configuring GRUB and a nice grub splash should be a mandatory feature for linux desktop distro.
Bootup — Early login and retooling of the init process is needed. I am too old-school to assume that a total re-write is needed and lots of very neat tricks can be achieved with “simple” shell scripts. But in the end the only thing that matters is that it works and the bootup process is faster. Users should be given the choice between a graphical and text based boot on install.
Desktop — I am a gnome user so excuse my emphasis on this desktop. KDE is great desktop but I have not used it enough to speak to any of its faults without getting the insta-flame treatment. Ubuntu has a nice clean desktop but gnome still needs too much memory to run at a speed comparable to XP. If you have 512MB+ you are fine but there are still new laptops today being sold with 256MB to ignore this point. The memory leaks are being addressed but in general the goal imho should be to be almost as fast as XFCE. I use that as an example because it uses a major widget set and is designed to be fast. Not saying they can ever reach that speed but it makes for a noble goal.
Small niggling usability annoyances like no doubleclick feedback for launching of desktop objects and the problems with browsing network shares need addressing and are just two examples.
In addition the reliance on OpenOffice for application support of basic word processing, presentation and spreadhsheet needs has to stop and gnome badly needs a presentation tool so those who do not want the bloated slow OpenOffice as their main office suite have a real choice.
Configuration tools — Ubuntu in a sense has it right. The reliance on distro-specific configuration tools has stunted the overall development of the OS for the laptop. Gnome System Tools or the KDE System Tools are the proper tools and should be beefed up by every distro outside of the large commercial arenas. This includes the need for BIND, and Webserver configuration tools in the native widget sets.
Package tools — This is a problem. Sometimes I feel it is not as large of a problem as some people make it out to be. Sometimes I feel it is the point of having to re-learn something very basic to the user experience like instead of downloading and installing an app you open a graphical yum or apt interface possibly add a repo and click to install. Not terribly hard but opposite of the way users are used to doing things. In addition there are times I feel that distro makers should work with the autopackage folks so that one package management tools can keep track of native and autopackage apps. That way distros can distribute their version of linux in their native format and then projects can just use autopackages if they offer binary packages. Very smooth. Sometimes I feel like the only package format that is universal is source and that source based portage style systems may end up being the way to go if they offer tools for handling downloaded source packages in a coherent fashion.
Source code is not that perfect either – it takes time to compile something, nothing for the impatient!
The biggest concern for the average PC user is : What about the games?
maybe a few years, but not anymore
most publishers either include a linux loader on disc or on website
and the majority of games run under cedega anyway
your point = extreme mootiness :p
most publishers either include a linux loader on disc or on website
You’re not a gamer, right?
A few big name developers do this, the vast majority of games are not available for Linux.
and the majority of games run under cedega anyway
Which is great for the people willing to pay for a game, then pay for a separate piece of software just to play the game at a lower quality than a native game.
“most publishers either include a linux loader on disc or on website
You’re not a gamer, right?
A few big name developers do this, the vast majority of games are not available for Linux.
and the majority of games run under cedega anyway
Which is great for the people willing to pay for a game, then pay for a separate piece of software just to play the game at a lower quality than a native game.”
Cedega is fairly cheap and plays just as good when used natively.
But i do agree that cedega is straight bullshit, cause even though its cheap, you still have to pay, and its insanely compicated to configure the damn thing the way you want it to. No reason at all something like that should cost money. And their approach is simply HORRID. Instead of increasing compatibility for all games, they solve their problems 1 game at a time with a bunch of BS hacks. So for every game u have, you might need to do some crazy hack to get the thing working, which is unacceptable for a product you pay for.
I play Enemy Territory on Linux, it’s a lot of fun. The problem is getting cards with updated and powerful OpenGL specs on them to compete with DirectX. I’m still waiting for a reasonably priced OpenGL 2.0 card. Also once that is complete then game companies (who whish so) can port a demo to Linux and see if theres a market.
Porting only a demo to linux doesnt make much sense.
The only difference between a demo and a full version is (usually) the actual game content provided (which is more often than not platform independent).
The game engine would still need porting, and that, my friend, is the expensive/time consuming part.
the linux-desktop is here. what is needed is someone to dump a bunch of CD’s ala AOL and include a tour upon bootup.
javajazz
^^ You mean like Ubuntu? Minus the tour though.
… linux-desktop won’t establish. Never! If there were only 80% of all games running Linux 10 years ago, nobody would know what the heck “Windows & MS” was anymore…
Regarding activation of windows…Actually, replacing the hard drive would require a new activation key. I had to get a new one after re-installing Windows on the SAME hard drive, and I had to justify myself to the tech support guy about why I was re-installing! Believe me, I was surprised and not a little offended when this happened, but it DID happen!
And it is true, it’s way quicker half the time to get your system up and running using linux, depending on your distro.
Also, I do get BSODS for no apparent reason, it just happens, and not just to “linux zealots”.
“Regarding activation of windows…Actually, replacing the hard drive would require a new activation key. I had to get a new one after re-installing Windows on the SAME hard drive, and I had to justify myself to the tech support guy about why I was re-installing! Believe me, I was surprised and not a little offended when this happened, but it DID happen!
And it is true, it’s way quicker half the time to get your system up and running using linux, depending on your distro.
Also, I do get BSODS for no apparent reason, it just happens, and not just to “linux zealots”.”
You are either an idiot, or just making stories up. Sorry, but I can disprove your story very easily with both retail and OEM copies of XP. Replacing the harddrive doesn’t require a new key.
>
> You are either an idiot, or just making stories
> up.Sorry, but I can disprove your story very easily
> with both retail and OEM copies of XP. Replacing the
> harddrive doesn’t require a new key.
>
Please read this:
http://www.licenturion.com/xp/fully-licensed-wpa.txt
You will certainly notice this part:
… harddrive hardware identification string
… SCSI host adapter hardware identification string
Your ignorance is not giving you right to call someone better informed than you an idiot.
Your statements are completely false. When you swap your harddrive and reinstall Windows it DOES often require a new activation key.
Regarding the daily BSODs, yes, they look just all too familiar to me and I am not even talking about the frequent freezing of applications.
If you like it or not, Linux does not have those problems. Period.
Oh please, it sounds like you don’t have the right drivers or hate to say it “user error”. I can’t even begin to think of last time I’ve seen a BSOD at the office or at home.
Stop all the BS stories and just use the right tool for the right job.
If I have to switch from my windows XP to another operating system it will be for sure to windows vista (longhorn)
Have fun with all the DRM and phonehomesoft! M$ is taking functionality out of their OS to make the “experience” better.
Same here.
For myself, I would probably switch over to linux on the desktop if I could play games. But I can’t, not without inordinate amounts of effort. Most aspects of Windows are “good enough” – I practice “safe computing” and almost never get viruses, and have a core driver set for my hardware that has proven rock solid. So, currently I have no compelling reason to move….
The other barrier, according to White, seems to be the lack of software support by key manufacturers like Adobe Systems and Macromedia, which are strong supporters of Windows and Apple Computer’s Mac OS X but rely more on third-party companies to help their applications run on Linux.
Create a stable standards based development environment and watch it all take off.
I think novell supposed that buying suse it will be a dream that novell would sell and make profit from suse operating system because there was lots of linux users, but the true is that linux have much less than 8% operating system market, and it’s almost impossible to sell something that we can get for free (GPL), there are lots of linux distros and all do almost the same… There is no market in with GPL licences…
This may sound absurd but gaming is the key. In the old DOS days I first saw a D&D game that was my reason to get a pc, ahem…as well as college work. I saw the potential for the pc to be a great gaming machine as well as having a more powerful computer than my Amstrad CPC. Then along came wolfenstein and simcity, then Doom which I think clinched it. The rest is now history. Gaming is a reason general computer users get a PC, whether they admit it or not. It’s the same with Mac and OS X. OS X is a great OS but most people wont touch it as there is not game support. Even I’d have one.
I stupidly subscribe to Transgaming and can hardly get anything running. The distro companies need to contact either the big name companies or some independant game studios and help bring gaming to the platform. There are some great native games but not enough to convert the general user. Things like, believe it or not, The Sims series would help. I know transgaming tried and Loki tried but it needs more effort. Even I dont have Linux native games because their not what I want. Doom 3 nice looking but pointless game. I like strategy (Rome total war) and elite style games (X2). Cant get them to work using wine or Winex (cedega). CAnt even get HL2 to work even though it is advertised.
It is catch 22. Developers (or rather publishers) wont create the games because there’s no games and people wont convert because their games wont run.
It’s not just about the desktop. Look in the games forums. Always someone saying ‘I am not switching until there is proper games support’
As I said it sounds absurd but it is true.
you subscribe to transgaming yet cannot get hl2 to work…
subscribers get point2play included, which makes installing hl2 simply point and click affair…
now considering that you are not trying to spread FUD, the thing might be that your distro automounts the disc and you need it to switch
um…it’s installed…doesnt work. Dont need the dvd after that. That wasnt the point of the thread.
Most gamers have this attitude, unfortunately it’s wrong. PC gaming is something full of obnoxious pitfalls, and it’s a large group: Probably 3-5% of PC users. But that’s not the key at all. It’d be nice to play my games on *nix; but it’s not the key to desktop adoption. The work PC is, if anything is. Espcially with work laptops which people tend to use as their home PC as well; if they aren’t big home PC users. Education is another big spot: Teaching the next generation to use more than one tool will be a great help in teaching it to not be dependent on one tool. Kids should be exposed to at least a couple ways of doing things: Not taught Microsoft Word, but Microsoft Word and maybe Open Office or another tool which actually has to be learned like latex.
Teaching latex instead of ms word?? O_o
Quote:
Even I dont have Linux native games because their not what I want. Doom 3 nice looking but pointless game. I like strategy (Rome total war) and elite style games (X2). Cant get them to work using wine or Winex (cedega). CAnt even get HL2 to work even though it is advertised.
It’s a bit of an off-topic, but if you like elite style games you could try VegaStrike(http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/), that in my judgment it’s becoming even better than most commercial game of the genre (try also the VegaStrike Privateer mod!), and for strategy you could give a try to “Battle for Wesnoth”(,http://www.wesnoth.org/), “FreeCiv”(http://www.freeciv.org/), Boson (http://boson.eu.org/index.php), UFO A.I.(http://www.ufoai.net/) -even if this is a bit lagging in development-…
*cries*
As an OS X user, I do not have to use the console for anything. I installed OS X on my Mac Mini, and *all* of my hardware was working. I went off and ran Software Update for good measure. What about installing an application? I just drag its icon into the Applications folder. Wireless? 3D acceleration? SSH server? FTP server? Apache with PHP built-in so I can develop websites locally?
It all just works. I do not have to TOUCH the console to do anything from the simplest to the most complex task in OS X.
As a Windows user, I install Windows, I go get the latest nForce, Radeon, and Audigy 2 drivers off the Web (my slipstreamed XP SP2 CD supports my Ethernet controller), I run Windows Update. A few reboots later, I have a fully-functioning, fully stable Windows XP environment. My hardware all works to the best of its capability, my system is 100% stable (let’s face it kids, Windows has not had stability problems since 2000 unless you have sh*t hardware), and I can play all of the latest games.
I have two tools for the job. I use OS X for my general computing, and I use my high-end PC for gaming and multimedia work.
Until Linux is exactly as painless as either of these two processes, it’s only trying to solve a problem for which there are already better solutions. DO NOT try to tell me that Ubuntu/SuSE/FC/whatever do not require you to Google for an hour for some obscure error, only to discover that you have to drop down to the console and spend another hour or two fixing cryptic shit that shouldn’t have gone wrong in the first place.
Let’s detail a quick a FC4 experience I had on my Athlon 64 box:
– Installed Fedora Core 4 64-bit
– Wanted to play MP3s — oops, no MP3 decoder
– Found the unofficial FC4 FAQ, and the single line I have to type into the console to download the MP3 codec through yum
– Yum errored out after working for a few minutes … no packages found
– I double-checked the line, and cross-references it with other forums/sites
– No go … I decided to go to Fresh RPMs to see if I could download the RPM myself
– Found the right RPM … tried to install
– RPM installation errored out because 3-5 dependencies could not be found
– I gave up, wiped FC4, and installed Windows again
This is bullshit. The average user would have given up at the yum error. I have the insight to at least attempt a download off Fresh RPMs. I think this process more or less outlines the problem with Linux: It’s a Jenga tower, and unless you’re a careful, knowledgeable individual with lots of patience and time, Linux is completely useless to the average user.
No MP3 support out of the box? Give me a break. What is this, 1998? At the very least there should be a wizard at the end of the installation that asks you if you wish to download additional components (that way they’re not on the CD, which is AFAIK the root of the legal problem).
Yeah if your too dense to follow the Fedora FAQ and get mp3 playback working then yes maybe linux is not for you.
And the sad part is that I agree that they should include a good postinstall script with the install. At least with Ubuntu I can download and run one script to get all that stuff going.
So why don’t you show me exactly what needs to be done? 🙂 I followed the instructions for Totem here: http://www.fedorafaq.org/#mp3
Simple enough, yes? I’m dense because the single command didn’t work as expected on a vanilla install? Okay then.
That kids, is why Linux is doomed to fail — turds like the poster above who automatically insult the intelligence of anyone for whom Linux doesn’t work out of the box as expected.
That kids, is why Linux is doomed to fail…
Hyperbole?
…turds like the poster above who automatically insult the intelligence of anyone for whom Linux doesn’t work out of the box as expected.
Yes, that is a behavior unique to Linuxers.
Simple enough, yes? I’m dense because the single command didn’t work as expected on a vanilla install? Okay then.
Well you should not expect it to work if you got package not found because quite obviously you did not read the pre-reqs in the instructions that ask you to grab the yum.conf from the site.
Because if you did grab that yum.conf the command would have worked.
If you cannot follow simple directions then NO installing an OS from scratch probably is not your best bet.
Funny thing is that I have played codecs hell on Mac OS X for divx and other odd formats and I did work through the trouble but it took me much longer than following a few lines of text from the Fedora Faq.
Oh, I see … so I need to remove an old configuration, and download a new one. More hackery needed to get a simple codec going? Yeah, definitely ready for Joe Public. First impressions are everything, people.
Oh, I see … so I need to remove an old configuration, and download a new one. More hackery needed to get a simple codec going? Yeah, definitely ready for Joe Public. First impressions are everything, people.
No its called following instruction.
It was all 1…2….3….4 instructions.
I agree. Most people are entirely capable of reading. Obviously some people simply cannot follow instructions.
It’s when the instructions don’t work that you have a priviledge to complain.
“If your (sic) to dense to follow the fedora FAQ, then blah blah not for you.”
If anything sums up the Linux elitist rubbish that really rubs people up the wrong way, it’s rubbish like that.
Linux is STILL fiddly and irritating, and there almost seems to be a liking of this in some parts of the Linux Community, just to keep it elitist.
I tried Fedora, and I had to spend 10 minutes getting the sound to work on my Audiogy 2 sound card, card was found but the sound was set to off by default, sigh. I’ll try again in a couple of years, maybe they’ll have made the great leap forward (c) by then.
No MP3 support out of the box? Give me a break. What is this, 1998? At the very least there should be a wizard at the end of the installation that asks you if you wish to download additional components (that way they’re not on the CD, which is AFAIK the root of the legal problem).
you said it yourself, it is a legal problem.
– Installed Fedora Core 4 64-bit
– Wanted to play MP3s — oops, no MP3 decoder
Every other distro contains a MP3 codec RH is just being overly legally cautious.
There will never be a “year of the Linux desktop”, at least, not in the way most people expect.
Due to the fact MS has such a tight grip on hardware manufacturers, as well as critical mass in device and software support, and due to the fact that most non tech oriented people are afraid of or totally resistent to change, Linux will never make “huge gains” on the home desktop.
However,
due to the fact that Linux is vastly superior to Windows,
and due to the fact that Linux can meet the needs of most people (excluding hardcore gamers, or users of Windows only software),
and due to the fact that there are lots of Linux advocates/companies out there,
and due to the fact that Linux is now totally easy to use,
and due to the fact that Linux is cheap/free,
and due to the fact that there is at least a small percentage of people who do like to try/learn new things …
Linux will always make slow, steady progress on the desktop.
And as Linux makes those gains, more and more device providers and software providers will jump on the Linux bandwagon, and the adoption rate will increase.
Add to that the fact that Linux is huge on the server side, huge on consumer product side, and becoming huge on the cell phone side, Linux is well on it’s way to becoming nearly ubiquitous.
Thus, there are no worries for Linux adoption.
And as for those making comments about “Linux zealots” – there are zealots in all camps, and Mac and Windows are no exception. Plus, the vast majority of Linux users are very friendly, reasonable, helpful people. Just try parusing Distro forums like MepisLovers.org, or LinuxQuestions.org, or FedoraForum.org, and many others, and you will see people going out of their way trying to be friendly and helpful. So don’t make broad-stroke stereotypes based on the behavior of a tiny minority. Doing so is zealotry itself.
“So why don’t you show me exactly what needs to be done? 🙂 I followed the instructions for Totem here: http://www.fedorafaq.org/#mp3
Simple enough, yes? I’m dense because the single command didn’t work as expected on a vanilla install? Okay then.
That kids, is why Linux is doomed to fail — turds like the poster above who automatically insult the intelligence of anyone for whom Linux doesn’t work out of the box as expected.”
This, from the posters name, to the condescending, invective oriented, juvinile post, is a perfect example of anti-Linux zealotry. It wasn’t the Linux fan that was being the zealot, it was this person. I mean, with a nickname like “Linux is Poo”, you know the person is a complete unreasonable zealot.
’nuff said.
As of Gnome 2.10 the Linux desktop have made tremendeous advancements in the “Just works” area. You can even connect to windows samba shares, digital cameras and other USB stuff just pops up when plugged in. Shared printers are detected automagically,The desing is clean, More and more applications emerge and gets better and better.
The problem is, who cares. Right now Linux faces the same problem that any new desktop ready system, including the soon to be released Microsoft Vista, will face.
The users can allready do what they need to do using the software they allready have, so why upgrade. However, there is always new users, and the better Linux gets as a desktop the greater the chance that these new users will try it. And the Linux desktop is improving rapidly before Vista sees the light of day there will be at least one major upgrade in features in both KDE and Gnome.
Novell wants to make money.
Now, if you’re a big company that wants to make money you realize that making a good business is not about “seeing”, but about “predicting”. And if you want to “predict” you don’t look at the reality around you, but at the “trends”. And the trends are: more and more talented people are working on bringing the Linux to the desktop (just to name the most important one).
We’re not there yet, but this is good since we’re not ready. Now is the time for business to realize, that whoever invests money into Linux now, will get his profits in future.
All you windows zealots may whine about “features that Linux doesn’t have” (and you’re right), but you can’t stop the tide. You’ll be using Linux sooner than you think. Either because of your own choice, or because you’ll be forced to use it at work.
With the exception of my name, I have not mindlessly bashed Linux, but rather stated where Windows and OS X are better, and what Linux has to do to be come a competitor. Open up your mind a little.
Legal issues of bundling MP3 aside, there’s absolutely no reason why they can’t run a wizard after the first boot that asks you to install such optional components off the web.
If you named yourseld “Linux is Poo”, Im FAIRLY sure you are mindlessly bashing linux.
That aside, I never have tried fedora core, but I hear bad things about it…..oh well Im still enjoying linux and all that.
I have read Linux Is Poo before, he is not an anti-linux troll as such, I actually think he would use linux if it done all he wished it too, easily enough for him…. in fact I think ALL windows users are like that
but legal matters NOT aside… it is a legal problem
Don’t judge a book by its cover. 🙂
My name might be inflammatory, but I think you should actually read the post before laying judgement.
I have to say that Linux has already so many advantages over any version of Windows that, perhaps with the exception of gaming, there is little reason not to use Linux. Linux has become the desktop of choice for many and an increasing number of people are transitioning to Linux lately. This is a great trend which means better security, stable systems, even more quality open source software, and the promise of a virus and spyware-free life.
Basically, the Novell guy is conceding that the average consumer isn’t going to adopt linux. But then him and the linuxworld guy basically go on to say that the corporate environment is where it’s at because of web apps.
What they fail to acknowledge is that DHTML/AJAX is still very limiting and Microsoft will have XAML and a .NET runtime in their browsers.
If Novell is ever going to pull out of their transition in one piece they need to concentrate on the server
And then they completely forget about all the inhouse windows apps that have been built over the years.
Basically, nobody has the will to do what really need to be done and completely rethink and redo the userspace and leave all the unix baggage of yesteryear behind.
Now that Macs are moving to Intel, the average consumer is much more likely to move to OSX than Linux.
will be when all distros die because of standardization. When authors of all sowftare that comprises the core of Linux OS work together for the common goal. When a company can release a binary (OSS or proprietary) driver and it actually installs in 99% of cases without recompiling. When users will have the option of installing most of the software that interests them the way they do it in Windows, relying only on the upstream. In other words – never?
…that is the home desktop, it will probably be in a form where the user is only vaguely if at all aware that Linux is even involved. Linux will make it into the home under branded appliances.
The corporate desktop market is another thing all together. Unlike the home market, there is an actual financial incentive to get into the corporate desktop market, and the “shortcomings” of Linux, when compared to Windows and Macs, are less obviously shortcomings in this market.
In a controlled and managed environment you simply don’t have to deal with the endless proliferation of devices, which consumers expect to “just work” like they do on Windows. Actually, in most corporate environments the fact that these random devices won’t work can actually be counted as an advantage, especially when considered from the security angle. Likewise with software installation. In most corporate environments, users should not be able to install any software at all, period. Locking Windows down to achieve this is unnecessarily difficult, when it is even possible (due to third party apps). This is doubly true for drivers.
The big downside to using Linux in a corporate environment–given that you’ve been able to severe your absolute dependence upon MS Office and IE–comes in the form of the innumerable inhouse, bespoke, and vertical apps which only run on windows. Thankfully there is a solution: Citrix and Windows TS.
The organization I work in is almost entirely Windows on the client side and still we are progressively moving more and more applications from the standard image to the Citrix farm. Deploying via RDP or ICA offers significant advantages over local deployment whether you are using MS on the client side or not. Using NoMachine’s NX technology (or FreeNX), you can even proxy RDP and ICA connections to provide a managed Linux desktop with Windows apps seamlessly integrated in.
“With the exception of my name, I have not mindlessly bashed Linux, but rather stated where Windows and OS X are better, and what Linux has to do to be come a competitor. Open up your mind a little.
Legal issues of bundling MP3 aside, there’s absolutely no reason why they can’t run a wizard after the first boot that asks you to install such optional components off the web.”
Well, I’ve been using Windows for many years, including XP. I’ve also tried Mac a number of times (at stores, at classes, at other peoples houses – never purchased one due to price). So I’m very familiar with both. And until the last 3 years or so, I knew next to nothing about Unix/Linux, other than having a Unix class as part of a programming certificate program at a local community college. At that time, I thought Unix was crap, because I found the command line to be very cludgy and not intuitive. But at one point (a little over 3 years ago) I decided to expand my horizons and skills beyond MS (I had been doing VB, VC++, SQL Server stuff). That’s when I tried Linux for the first time. I enthusiastically dove in and learned how it worked. I’ve been increasingly liking it ever since, to the point of greatly prefering it to MS stuff and overpriced Apple stuff (Apple products are quite good, but are beyond what I consider a good “value” proposition). So, I do have an open mind. It’s just that I’ve received the best overall computing experience and value while using Linux.
As for MP3 support, as well as support for other media codecs, it doesn’t come supported out of the box with completely “free” distros like Fedora Core, Ubuntu, pure Debian, and others. It does, however, come completely supported out of the box with commercial, newbie desktop oriented distros like Linspire, Xandros, Mepis, Mandriva, and SuSE Professional. In other words, if you go with completely free (both as in beer and in freedom), you’ll have to do a bit of “do-it-yourself” in downloading and installing the codecs. But if you are willing to pay for a box set or download, you get the stuff preloaded and preconfigured.
BTW – you seem like a reasonable person. Going with forum name like “Linux is Poo” makes people thing you are quite unreasonable. It is somewhat funny, though – I know you’re trying to be a smart-ass. 🙂
I’m glad Linux works out for you. I should have probably clarified that I’m not a nublar in the least. While I don’t have to use the console in OS X, I do so anyway, because it’s just easier to perform some file management and programming tasks in the console as opposed to the GUI.
I’ve used Linux for a long time, and I’ve built LFS at least four times. While it’s a nice hobby system, I just don’t see it going main-stream until all of the distro makers agree on a common file system layout/conf file layout/libs/etc. Until that time comes, the system is much too fragmented for any one company to bother releasing serious applications that will only function on a select number of distros.
Also, like I said, I understand the legal matters behind MP3 support — but that doesn’t stop distro makers from using a first-boot wizard that asks you if you wish to download optional components (such as the MP3 decoder) from their online repository. I don’t believe there are any legal issues with that.
As for my name … yeah, I use it because I like to see the reaction it illicits from the 3-year-olds on Slashdot/here who somehow manage to log in and type their Linux-zealot nonsense.
yeah – I can vouch for this linux is poo guy, I have read his posts before, him not an anti-linux troll
anyway, it would be illegal in the US for a distro maker to provide links to proprietary codecs (like mp3,wma,xvid,ac3 ) on it repositories. so that would make the after install script a non-starter.
until people start using open formats, this will always be the case, and in fact, it will actually get worse if MS gets its way with DRM…..
so, I urge you all, use OGG for music and Theora or DIRAC for videos
Also, like I said, I understand the legal matters behind MP3 support — but that doesn’t stop distro makers from using a first-boot wizard that asks you if you wish to download optional components (such as the MP3 decoder) from their online repository. I don’t believe there are any legal issues with that.
There is legal issuses or the distros would do it. Thanks for basically saying “I am not a laywer.” There is a reason you have to PAY MONEY for a distro with legal MP3 support.
Personally I think the biggest problem with “Linux on the Desktop” (such a stupid term, Linux is a kernel) is that no one distro “wins.” There is a not a “THE new user distro.” The closest we have is SUSE. I’m a big Ubuntu fan, but I would be happy for OpenSUSE to start leading the market just so that we have a market leader. Red Hat had its chance, but someone new needs to step up.
If we had a market leader the problems would go away. Third parties would release drivers and programs for that distro. That disto would get the outside support needed.
The idea of a “standardized Linux desktop” is a dream. They only way standards will exist is if one distro gets WAY more popular than the others and forces the others to either copy it or be left out in the cold.
In the early -90:th Amiga was the most popular computer for me and my friends. I live in Sweden. If a new friend intended to buy a new computer he bought an Amiga because everyone else of his friends had it. But that changed when Wolfenstein 3D came to the PC. That game was something new. It became very popular. It didn´t took long time for most of us to change to PC instead. Before that game I only knew a few that used a PC as a game-machine. But with Wolfenstein 3D that changed. Then came Doom and Quake and many other FPS-games. When Quake came I think none of us used the Amiga anymore. In the computer-rooms at my university everyone played Wolfenstein 3D at the evenings instead of using the computers for work 🙂
So that is what I think is needed for Linux. A game just only for Linux that is so good that everyone wants to play it. To play that game they need to change to Linux of course.
/Magnus
Tried windows 64 bit yet?…it has stuff like launching the 32 bit explorer to update because windows update for windows 64 bit isn’t 64 bit yet…
Or how about non working drivers? software that acts flaky?
I dont think the problem is linux here, but the rather new ’64 bit desktop’
perhaps try the 64 bit version of OS X…
don’t compare 32 apples to 64 oranges
Much to your disappointment, I can report that I have used XP 64-bit, and experienced no such problems.
Driver quality is dependant on the manufacturer. All of the major manufacturers have pretty stable 64-bit drivers.
The bottom line is that the whole open source model isn’t conducive to the consumer. There’s no standards, too much fragmentation, no one Linux desktop, random groups that are depended upon but have no accountability.
The Novell VP understands this, and so focused on the corporate desktop – where it has an easier but still uphill battle.
Maybe if linux had taken the BSD route and focused on the userspace stuff AND the desktop all together then things would have turned out differently, but that didn’t happen.
If Apple gets their prices down in the shift to Intel then it has the best chance of cracking the MS monopoly, but the status quo with linux will never.
Linux is poo:
Though you have not been flaming linux directly, you must understand that by bearing that name, you are sending a message about your intentions. It’s like listening to a girl who wears scanty clothing in public complain about how all of the guys around her are acting as though sexually interested in her. Yes, you are free to wear what you want, say what you want, but be aware of the decisions you make, and the messages you send. Also be aware of the consequences of those actions, and what people’s reactions might be. In part, at least, you are how you choose to carry yourself- name, clothes, who you spend your time with.
(I know my name is ‘thebackwash’, thank you.)
I meant to log in. My name is ‘thebackwash.”
I tried different Linux distributions for my home computer ever since RedHat 7-ish, but it never seemed quite good enough.
Fedora Core 4 with Gnome is quite excellent though, once you find http://www.fedorafaq.org. 😉 No need for much compiling and config-file-editing. YUM, Gnome, GIPM, XMMS, Firefox, Sun Java, OpenOffice, Evince (PDF) all work like a charm. It even automounts my USB MP3 player! No more Visual Studio.NET,tho..
Of course the dual booting ( /boot in cyl<1024, windows in a primary partition), NTFS mounting via /etc/fstab, the shell and the whole unix file structure still takes a lot of getting used to. But hey, no more than when I switched from Amiga to MS, I bet!
People are locked into Windows! Come on look at whats going on, OEM, a large majority of unportable Apps, tons of wooing developers to their locked in architecture. Linux on the Desktop is almost there, the last things that need to be taken care of is usability and making sure the latest code that fixes bugs or provides needed functionality is included.
Notice that every article about desktop usage starts a thread that typically has at least 100 posts? This one is now at 78, and I’m sure it will exceed 100 by the end of the day.
In other words, the subject of Desktop Linux is a hot topic, and that means there are a lot of people that use Linux as a desktop, and a lot of people who care about Linux as a desktop, and a lot of people that are curious but are reluctant to try (for various reasons), and even a lot of people that choose not to use Linux as a desktop right now but will in the future if it ever meets X requirement.
Linux on the desktop is growing slowly but surely. No doubt about it.
Several factors:
Microsoft rules because:
1. IBM did not conrol the cloning of their hardware.
2. MS provided OS support on all of the CLONES.
3. You could buy one OS, but you could shop around for hardware.
4. No other PC builder offered this freedom back when this stuff was all starting.
5. By the time Windows came along, the open hardware architecture was firmly imbedded. And it supported MS. Can you imagine the market penetration of MS, if IBM had controlled and stopped the CLONES? If DOS and Windows were only available on IBM. (THE original business plan)? There would be no Dell, no Compaq, no ACER, no nothing. My gosh, Macintosh might rule!
6. RadioShack, Commodore, Amiga, Texas Instruments, and others were killed by their proprietary hardware.
7. Quality was a factor, but the un-lockin hardware was the life of MS.
8. Only Macintosh survived as a proprietary packaged hardware vendor. Superior marketing, superior packageing, and plenty of hype has kept them alive, but the quality (?) of Macintosh will never overtake the easy access to MS.
Microsoft has never ruled because of Quality. It’s been about marketing and perception of value. During the entire history of MS, Unix was a better OS, But it was unreasonably expensive, and hardware was even more so. UNIX was never envisioned for the home PC market.
And UNIX is STILL expensive. Solaris and FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD are all affordable, but its almost too late. Linux is roughly comparable to the BSDs, but the copyright favors the users, while the BSD copyrights favor the developers. BUT Linux AND the BSD’s are can be freely acquired. And freely modified, and freely distributed, (BSD and Linux differ in freedom of distribution) but they are all easier to deal with than the proprietary OS’s. AND THEY SUPPORT THE SAME HARDWARE THAT Windows runs on. Free software, choice of vendors for hardware, Free Softwares will eventually rule, as all features can be addressed and added. And like it or not, it is, and will be, more capable, and for less money, than Windows. The only thing that can stop the FOSS softwares is unreasonable legislative action by governments. In a free market, the value will win.
{Regarding the daily BSODs, yes, they look just all too} {familiar to me and I am not even talking about the {{frequent freezing of applications.}
{If you like it or not, Linux does not have those problems. Period.}
Go to linuxquestions.org, read the help forums.
linux no problems, HA HA… go look!!!!
The real niche market for linux is one too often ignored by the people making the distributions.
Something I sent to Zdnet ages ago.
I fully agree that corporate America will not and probably should not switch over entirely from Windows. However, there is a very viable niche market that few Linux distros have even bothered to pursue.
Say you run a shop where you program for a Unix platform, or maybe you have a large group of systems and network engineers that spend all day on the Unix command line.
They log onto their Windows NT machines and proceed to spend 90 percent of their day stuck inside an Exceed session or at the telnet or SSH client command line. Maybe the situation is even worse where you work with corporate IT spending money for a group of engineers or developers to have a Windows NT machine and a Unix workstation as well running two boxes out of the same cube.
If there was no market for these people, Exceed and other companies doing the same thing would go out of business. In addition, commercial Unix manufacturers would stop making workstation configurations all together. They have not.
The real market for the Linux desktop in corporate America are these people stuck spending 90 percent of their day in Unix on top of Windows or with two machines.
So, what is the solution?
A fast Intel box running Linux with a good optimized and branded KDE or Gnome with CrossOver Office for running Winword when the project manager sends them that complicated template with embedded graphs and images that even OpenOffice chokes on.
The real key for Linux distro makers is to stop thinking of the operating system as a commercial Unix product or, worse, as a end-user Windows-style product.
MacOSX in its now BSD glory gives Linux a clue to where its head should be in viewing itself:
* Base layer–kernel, file system, and command line innards.
* Compatibility layer–all the Wine tools needed to run MS-Office or other programs right out of the box.
* Interface layer–an integrated desktop environment where everything, including all system tools, have the same look and feel. (SuSE almost has this right with even its Yast2 tools available from the KDE Control Panel.)
When Linux companies stop thinking about the OS simply being the base layer with all the rest of the pieces as being simply add-ons for the adventurous, then and only then will there be a true Linux desktop choice for the masses.
Until then, it would benefit many companies that make extensive use of Unix in their IT environment to start looking at Linux for their Unix developers and sysadmins tired of living in two conflicting worlds.
I believe that things starts happening for linux when ubuntu matures. It will kick off self-sustaining life. Better ubuntu = more users = more apps = more users = better ubuntu… etc. Ubuntu will also drive hw sales and that = more users.
The last line “what you want the Linux desktop to do.” has everything! When I stopped expecting from Linux to support my own bluetooth device I felt, Linux is doing everything… except…!
So every device manufacture and giant software companies having propritory file formats needs to come down to Linux and then only it will be truly alternative to MS operating systems. Till this doesnt happen it is always going to remain an os of the Geeks and specilized fields.
I would say Linux is ready but the adoption is at a moderate pace.On the the other hand Linux is dramatically being adopted in the server world.My take the desktop will be next once Linux is ultimate settled in the server world and increasingly better drivers come accross Linux.
Have a look at this:
Unhappiness drives open source adoption
http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=2BF1A6B8-C974-42DD-8…
I couldn’t recall how many times I re-formatted and re-installed Windows XP. Last week, Microsoft spewed an error saying I had already exhausted the number of times I could activate Windows.
Now what do you call that?
that’s not much of a problem. just activate via phone. it is free and will will at maximum cost you 15 minutes of your valuable time. if this is pushing too far for you than just switch to linux or any other available os.
i’m sooo tired of people complaining and whining about how bad windows is, but who use it anyway, making up some reasons why they must use windows.
you miss the point, it is not about the length of time to activate, or how easy it is to do…
the point is that users do not like microsoft treating them as thieves for using their own software.
everytime you use the activation is another time microsoft has accused you of stealing its stuff
Now what do you call that?
harassment.
You can uninstall Messenger by running the following command:
RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%infmsmsgs.inf,BLC.Remove
And yes, I have actually seen that happen before. Sometimes (it’s happened only once to me) changing ONLY a HDD is enough to put you on the phone with Microsoft, asking for a new registration code.
i’m sooo tired of people complaining and whining about how bad windows is, but who use it anyway, making up some reasons why they must use windows.
I don’t like hypocrytes either nevertheless i don’t miss windows at all.No more driver installing,no need to defragment,an abundance of software easy to install from a local mirror while no need to register with javascript on,no more slow updates,computer boots faster,computer remains fast,no need to reboot after installing additional software,enhanced security projects (grsecurity,selinux,openwall,RSBAC,PAX),more devloper tools,better networking support,no need to activate,great modularity,great community,lots of opportunities to get relly involved and to learn etc etc..
Even the games don’t get me back to windows,the time spend gaming is better spend in learning and meeting interesting people.
i use both, linux and windows. i’ve never had much trouble with windows, i had a lot of problems with linux though. but hey, i got it for free and it works well on my laptop, so why would i complain. the point is, if i would realy think one of them is bad, i simply wouldn’t use it instead of whining about it.
if i would realy think one of them is bad, i simply wouldn’t use it instead of whining about it.
Exactly,that’s why i ditched windows.The mileage may vary though.Some really have to use windows for one reason or another.I’m glad i don’t have to that’s all.Does that make me a windows basher?Think not,just being a realist windows has nothing to offer me.In the end it’s whatever gets the job done that’s going to be runned i think.
“”If your (sic) to dense to follow the fedora FAQ, then blah blah not for you.”
If anything sums up the Linux elitist rubbish that really rubs people up the wrong way, it’s rubbish like that.”
What is so elitist about that? Is it too much to expect someone to read minimal instructions, even totally, utterly easy instructions like the ones at FedoraFAQ.org?
It’s the same way with Windows and OSX. Dome things are easy there, but some things do require reading the manual. Ever try getting a quick answer to something on the MSDN library? It’s huge and poorly indexed, and usually takes a lot of time parusing stuff to get an answer.
So when people whine that such and such did not work 100% out of the box with Linux, they are a bit off base. This stuff happens with all operating systems and software.
Reading minimal instructions is elitist? Actually trying to learn something is elitist? C’mon.
Linux these days, with newbie desktop oriented distros like Linspire, Xandros, Mepis, and Mandriva (yes there are others) make things incredibly easy. Based on personal experience with both install Windows and Linux, I can vouch that those distros are much, much, much easier than Windows.
“Actually trying to learn something is elitist? C’mon.”
Well, yes. Maybe not eliteist, but people want to use their computers to do stuff, not learn how to get the applications to install/work!
That said I should talking, using Amiga OS4, for fun…!