“It was recently annouced that desktop Linux’s golden child, Ubuntu, may begin to offer Linspire’s Click-N-Run service. This story which hit the internet just a few days ago is big news for the desktop Linux community. Ubuntu, which is the most popular Linux distribution (according to DistroWatch) has had a profound impact on the desktop operating system industry and any move it makes is going to be a critical one. Overall, feelings about this are understandably mixed.”
I think this is great. I have used Click-n-Run in the past and I did find apt more usefull. But for the average Joe this is a great product. I have used Ubuntu and I think its a great and very polished desktop but the thing that its missing is backing and support for commercial products. Most people will argue that you can apt and install codecs and other apps without realizing that alot of these software are illegal in US and most individuals are not willing to go the risk. Plus most home users barely have the knowledge of using the mouse not to mention apt or even synaptic. With the simplicity and sofistication of Ubuntu, which linspire lacked, plus the rich featured Click-n-Run you can get a great desktop.
Edited 2006-03-06 22:26
It’s not installed by default then it should be OK.
Apart from offering proprietary codecs, how does the CNR differ from the “Add Applications” button introduced in Breezy? That button launches a very user-friendly, trimmed-down version of Synaptic … isn’t the goal of the CNR already met, then?
There are a lot of good things that CNR offers that Synaptic doesn’t.
The number one thing is that it remembers every single application you ever installed, not only that but you can make install sets for different types of machines so you can have your web machine, and when you install linspire you can just got to that set of software, select all and say install, you don’t have to go searching like with other installers.
Also keeps track of subscriptions so if I want to pay for something it will let me know when new versions of the free and paid software comes out (can’t get paid software through synaptic!)
Plus what I am hoping is that more companies will want to put their products for sale through click and run! For instance you can get Cross over cheaper, you can get Win4lin cheaper. I personally love Think Free office, which is $50 on the street $29.99 on CNR. (It’s faster, works better with word and excel docs and is lighter then OOo) worth the price to me.
Having everything free is cool, but in reality people are not going to work for free forever! Then what? Ether the apps stop getting made, or you get charged an ARM and a leg for them!
Drivers for once will be very nice
Give me a break, lets not assume people are all morons, anybody with half a brain can use synaptic. Ubuntu does offer proprietary codecs if you enable them. Seems to me that the Linux desktop is becoming so simple that even a monkey can use it, and I wish people would stop assuming people cannot click things or feel the need to only click it once.
People ARE stupid and/or unwilling to learn, face the truth. Even if people knew how to use Synaptic, how would they know that they need to install something? My parents take for granted that they can play MP3s, it’s beyond their imagination that they would have to install something :p
Edited 2006-03-07 00:43
I’m not going to use it, but I do see this as a good thing. Click’n’Run is very intuitive, and overall a good way to add software for Linux newbies (I love Synaptic, but if you don’t know the name of the program you’re looking for it can be a bit daunting for new users).
That said, I also support projects such as EasyUbuntu, but the more tools are at the user’s disposal, the better!
<gushing>
I love Ubuntu. I love it.
</gushing>
Shuttleworth has been talking about making Ubuntu commercially sustainable for a while. I think Click-n-Run is not the best way to go toward commercial viability, but good for them if they can.
Personally, i’m not interested in this at all. I used Linspire and CNR just seemed like paying for stuff that i can get for free.
I mean really, isn’t this what we have APT for?
Note to Ubuntu: as much as we (users) love you, we will jump ship the moment you start screwing us. Keep that in mind.
I think (hope?) that if CNR is offered it won’t be part of the official distro, therefore making it just another 3rd party software installer like Autopackage or Klik. I thought the money would still go to Linspire’s company as it’s still their servers and software.
To make it part of official Ubuntu would go directly against their manifesto. “Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the “enterprise edition”, we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms”
Service, Support, Pre-configuration etc are all valid OSS business models. We don’t expect (maybe some of us do? lol) Red Hat or Novell to provide their services for free… Linspire are merely doing the same, providing a package selection, installation and configuration service.
While it may not be targetted to more savvy users, I’m sure it will go a long way for home and corporate users who aren’t in the business or configuring desktops for a living.
Anything that can reduce switching costs (not just $s) is fine by me.
… of wasting time porting a service that charges users for free software (which never made much sense to me) why not just make a ‘front end for dummies’ on apt-get (which is what I thought Synaptic was)… basically ‘synaptic lite’ or something like that. Churn out a workalike – the programs are already all there under the repositories, shouldn’t be THAT hard to just present them to the user in idiot mode.
I can see real greenhorns not understanding concepts like flagging and apply, I’ve seen some serious Dee Dee Dee moments from users in things like Synaptic (and the corresponding shaking of the head and rolling of the eyes from myself on how can people be THAT stupid) – I’ve seen that problem just trying to walk users through a doing the ‘custom’ option on windows update!
Much like everything else with linux, there’s just not enough handholding and dumbing down for the masses – while CNR is a step in the right direction on that, I have my doubts of how good a choice that is for a free distro like ubuntu.
“wasting time porting a service that charges users for free software”
? They don’t charge you for free software? They charge you for the service of testing that free software for you, for packaging it for you, for giving you support for that free software and also keeping information and supplying you with easy to install updates to that free software. Also you get free OS updates in the Fee (And I don’t mean security or bug updates)
You could close your eyes and guess what, it’s the same thing Xandros does, Red Hat, Novell etc.
On top of that it’s a choice. No one is forcing it on anyone, you use it if you want and you don’t if you don’t want? What is the big deal about that? That has no bearing on if someone is gonna make Apt or Synaptic better.
The funny thing is Xandros charges people for less, they just use apt and put a front end on it. It’s not even as creative at CNR, yet I never hear any one talk about “Xandros networks”
I see this as a great way to make Linux as a whole a viable option for commercial software.
Since the majority of desktops run either Windows or Mac it makes little sense for software publishers to sell Linux software in the physical marketplace. Take this and add in the bother of multiple distros, architectures, and flavors and well… you get the point. With (relatively) little demand for commercial Linux software and nearly insurmountable compatiblity issues, this provides developers/publishers the ability to test the Linux waters without the fuss of trying to market their products in the real-world(tm).
If CNR expands, it could also potentially rid the developers of the hassles of supporting various linux flavors and distros to a large degree (as I suspect most of this is handled by Linspire).
I don’t think this is a good way for Ubuntu to distribute free software but for the commerical world this could be the spark that helps vitalize the Linux sector in the marketplace (not single-handly obviously, but I really doubt that it could hurt). There is the potential for this to be the commercial version of apt for Linux – all (or at least a lot of) commercial software in a single, easy to access repository. No hassles, no searching the internet for a URL, just a nice, easy to use program. This could really help Linux get a one up on Windows and Mac in the commercial universe. With all considered, it seems that as long as this doesn’t supplant apt, this is good both for users and developers.
Edited 2006-03-07 00:07
“I see this as a great way to make Linux as a whole a viable option for commercial software.
Since the majority of desktops run either Windows or Mac it makes little sense for software publishers to sell Linux software in the physical marketplace. Take this and add in the bother of multiple distros, architectures, and flavors and well… you get the point. With (relatively) little demand for commercial Linux software and nearly insurmountable compatiblity issues, this provides developers/publishers the ability to test the Linux waters without the fuss of trying to market their products in the real-world(tm).
If CNR expands, it could also potentially rid the developers of the hassles of supporting various linux flavors and distros to a large degree (as I suspect most of this is handled by Linspire).
I don’t think this is a good way for Ubuntu to distribute free software but for the commerical world this could be the spark that helps vitalize the Linux sector in the marketplace (not single-handly obviously, but I really doubt that it could hurt). There is the potential for this to be the commercial version of apt for Linux – all (or at least a lot of) commercial software in a single, easy to access repository. No hassles, no searching the internet for a URL, just a nice, easy to use program. This could really help Linux get a one up on Windows and Mac in the commercial universe in regards to the user. “
Bingo!
CNR, the easiest, and most commercial software friendly, Linux package management tool in existance, combined with Ubuntu, the most popular (and one of the best, most polished) desktop Linux distro, could be a real killer combo, and help push Linux “over the hump” in the desktop market.
Really, it could solve the problem of ISVs having to support multiple distros if they port their software to Linux. If CNR on Ubuntu happens and succeeds, then other distros, especially Debian based distros, will galvanize around it. CNR could become the de facto standard for support of comercial software on Desktop Linux. And if that happens, more ISVs will migrate to Linux, and then more end users will be willing to give Linux a try.
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome. Please let this happen!
BTW – I’m currently not using Linspire or Ubuntu, although I have my Mom using Linspire, and I have used Ubuntu from time to time. I’m currently using mostly Kanotix.
But CNR on Ubuntu would make Linspire and Ubuntu the first distro I recomend to newbies, and might even become my distro(s) of choice.
Really, it could solve the problem of ISVs having to support multiple distros if they port their software to Linux. If CNR on Ubuntu happens and succeeds, then other distros, especially Debian based distros, will galvanize around it. CNR could become the de facto standard for support of comercial software on Desktop Linux. And if that happens, more ISVs will migrate to Linux, and then more end users will be willing to give Linux a try.
How does it solve any software packaging problems? It’s simply another package manager front-end, it doesn’t re-architect the underlying OS to create some sort of a universal platform. A .deb package in Linspire’s CNR won’t necessarily work on Ubuntu any more than a .deb from Debian unstable will. So CNR for Ubuntu will require either porting of existing packages, some sort of merger with the Ubuntu repos, and/or testing of the existing packaged commmercial apps.
Put another way, you can use synaptic on Suse, Fedora, Ubuntu or Linspire but there’s no guarantees of package interoperability, even aside from the differences between rpm and deb. CNR would be no different.
Klik is something a little more oriented to universal package management, but it’s not without it’s own issues.
Not knocking CNR, while Linspire is not my cup of tea, I will acknowledge that they are at least taking bold steps to bring desktop usability closer. But at the end of the day CNR won’t revolutionize anything, it’s simply an attempt to generate a revenue stream from Ubuntu’s popularity. I have my doubts as to whether it would work, but all the more power to them if they want to try.
ISV’s will be more concerned about the business market since that’s where the low hanging fruit is. Nothing will be revolutionized unless it involves Red Hat and Novell, and then it may trickle down to the consumer level.
Still, the consumer market could be a profitable niche for the right vendor finding the right opportunity.
“How does it solve any software packaging problems?”
Read the part of my post that specifically mentions “for pay” software, as well as proprietary codecs and file formats.
CNR doesn’t gain you much over synaptic when it comes to all the free software, other than an even easier interface (nothing to shake a stick at). But when you can “for pay” software and proprietary codecs and file formats, completely legally, with a single mouse click, you have something really special.
This gives newbies and non techies something to use easily, and proprietary ISVs something to easily target.
The only reason Lindows has access to the MS format .wmv/.wma codecs is because they were part of the 20 million dollar buyoff. Their right to use those expires in 2008. You KNOW MS is going to renew the license, right?
How does it solve any software packaging problems? It’s simply another package manager front-end, it doesn’t re-architect the underlying OS to create some sort of a universal platform.
True, but CNR is already being used for distribution of other companies commercial software, so other ISVs know that the payment system works.
The packaging for the different CNR capable distributions could then be offered as a service to the ISVs, e.g. an ISV could allow Linspire (possibly under NDA) to repackage their software for all or a vendor chosen selected range of CNR targets.
CNR on Ubuntu is a Win-Win-Win-Win situation to all involved.
It’s a win for Linspire, obviously, because they get a new market to sell to.
It’s a win for Ubuntu because it’s users get instant, easy, and legal access to proprietary codecs, file formats, and “for sale” software.
It’s a win for Ubuntu in general because it is an attractive add on feature – CNR is even easier than Synaptic.
It’s a win for desktop Linux in general, because two different distros cooperate and get better, and mostly because CNR becomes a much more atractive option for ISV’s to port their software to Linux.
Yeah, some “all free software” Ubuntu users don’t care about CNR (or even fear/resent it).
Yeah, apt-get and Synaptic are already pretty easy.
But CNR is even easier than Synaptic, and gives easier (and more legal) access to proprietary codecs, file formats, and software.
And when it comes to Linux on the desktop and getting Windows to Linux converts, you just can’t make it too easy (or “dumbed down”). The easier, more trouble free, the better. That’s what CNR and Linspire are all about. And combine that with an already great Ubuntu, and you get a big winner.
Really, this is a no-brainer. Carmony (Linspire CEO) and Shuttleworth (Ubuntu sugar-daddy) really need to proceed with CNR on Ubuntu, asap.
Even though i think this is worth pursuing in the name of ensuring Ubuntu continues down its current path, nobody has mentioned one possible downside to embracing (or at least tolerating) click-n-run.
What is likely to happen is Ubuntu maintainers will neglect the Synaptic package manager we all know and love in favor of the pay-service CNR. There’s no reason Synaptic couldn’t add artwork, user reviews, etc, but you can bet your ass it won’t be added because Canonical will want users to pay for CNR.
So us non-paying users will be relegated to 2nd-class status.
Of course, as long as we’re talking about GPL software, users will retain control, but one of the big lessons of Ubuntu is that the sum of its parts aren’t as important as the arrangement of the parts.
>What is likely to happen is Ubuntu maintainers will neglect the Synaptic package manager we all know and love in favor of the pay-service CNR . . . So us non-paying users will be relegated to 2nd-class status.
Sorry, but I just don’t see that happening at all. Different people with different motivations maintain the different repositories. CNR doesn’t even exist on Ubuntu, and you are talking as if the reason they don’t add artwork and reviews to synaptic is the existence of CNR.
I see your point, and it is a valid concern, but if maintainers don’t want to maintain the apt repositories in favor of CNR, then maybe the apt repositories aren’t worth saving. In this scenario, the problem is not CNR, the problem would be apt, and I’m not sure we should artificially favor one choice by crippling the other. That’s what proprietary companies are do, and I don’t think it should be copied in the OSS world.
Edited 2006-03-07 01:09
I keep telling people what we need to develop is the apt protocol.
This is b*****t. Shuttleworth doesn’t want to participate in what he sees as the “Linspire Show”, but CNR is going to be welcomed???
This is bogus.
If CNR will work for Ubuntu,that means one less selling point for Linspire.
Why not use an modified version of KLIK, its been used succesfully with Knoppix and Kanotix etc…
Would that not be better?
http://klik.atekon.de/
Ubuntu manifest, alway’s free of charge!
I see the most likely outcome as follows. CNR would be a service that Linspire, not Canonical, offers Ubuntu users. I imagine that the revenue for Canonical would come from the significant integration effort. Ubuntu package maintainers would continue their work as if nothing has happened, and if any are offered lucrative employment by Linspire they would be replaced by someone from the considerably sized community which minimizes the disturbance.
This in no way compromises Ubuntu’s principles. Their acceptance of revenue from Linspire for integration would be part of their original goal of making Ubuntu sustainable and less dependent upon Mr Shuttleworth. I hardly see this as an enterprise fork.
I for one would like to get legal codecs and deals like discounted Crossover from CNR onto my Ubuntu desktop.
If your current Linspire CNR account would be also valid for (K)Ubuntu and the otherway around.
I think any move by the linux community to make software installation as easy and as fool proof as possible is brilliant. Certainly tools have evolved a lot over the last few years, but we need a unified standard for software distribution and installation across all distributions.
When you use Windows you know that you can download software, double click, and then proceed through a nice wizard. Icons are placed on your desktop and your start menu. It works.
On linux, whilst this *can* happen when you use the built in tools (synaptic, apt-get, pkg_add), you have no such assurances when you move outside of those tools (ie, if you download software from a 3rd party website). Software can be in many different formats (RPM, .tar.gz, source, etc) and it confuses the hell out of new users. And let’s not even talk about dependency issues. The number of hours I’ve spent just trying to get something to work…
I’ve recently started playing with PC BSD. They’ve invented the PBI software distribution format which works just like an MSI file on windows. I like it. But again, it would be fantastic if the distributions would work together to make something that works consistently and flawlessly.
Regarding Ubuntu, I have a funny (perhaps eery) feeling about them. The website, the holding of hands, the we love everyone ethos.. sounds like a cult to me. I’m steering clear.
It’s easy to see what Linspire will get from this, but it is less easy to see the benefits to Ubuntu. Just my 2 cents, but I don’t think Ubuntu should involve themselves with a revenue-seeking third-party on the prowl like this. Ubuntu might be far better off saying “Thanks but no thanks” and then starting their own system for pay-for commercial and/or patented software, in their own good time. Nothing says that CNR is going to be the long-term winner as a way of packaging Linux material, and unless you think it is then why do a deal with it.
Just right now, I’d wonder if doing a deal with Linspire is a top priority for Ubuntu anyway. In addition, going with Linspire might start a two-tier system for Ubuntu: nice things for rich people with broadband and plain jane for everyone else. Ubuntu isn’t aimed only at folks in the West so such a move could be divisive.
It is head and sholders above Ubuntu, has good coverage of most open source software, can use apt-get if you want to (it’s Debian) and has a default file system of Reiser. What’s not to like (except the price).
It’s much cheaper than Red Hat and I have never had trouble with hardware detection with it, even with my quirky old Gateway laptop. It also does really well with wireless devices (IMO).
The Linspire people seemed to have suppored a lot of open source projects. It seems worthwhile to pay them… so I did.
This is good if both regular apt repositories and CNR is there for the Ubuntu users. If they take out the former or become exclusive CNR, I’m definitely switching distros.