Roughly two months after the initial launch of Windows Vista, Microsoft software development leader Ben Fathi said his company is pleased with the security, performance and feedback it has received regarding its newest operating system. Seated in a quiet briefing room removed from the pressing mass of humanity coursing through ongoing RSA Conference 2007, Fathi, corporate vice president of development of Microsoft’s Windows Core Operating System Division, appears at ease, and even happy discussing the topic of Vista security. The Onion has its own take, while CNet also has some things to say.
Before anyone from the Microsoft Defense Brigade starts jumping up and down at the inaccuracies of the Onion piece, let me remind everyone that the Onion is a *satirical* newspaper/website, and that it often pokes fun at *both* Microsoft and Apple (or, more precisely, at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs).
As for Fathi, did you really expect him to say anything negative about Vista at this point? Come on…
Is it necessary to always be negative about Microsoft? I mean, when I’m negative about Linux, I get abused, insulted, accused of various things ranging from being a Microsoft shill to killing cute little puppies.
Microsoft has some major improvements in security – and lets also remember, it is YOU the customer who demands backwards compatibility at all costs, not Microsoft; if you want someone to blame for the security issues that plague Windows, you the consumer can look in the mirror and blame the insatiable appetite for backwards compatibility as the cause.
As for the improvements; its going to be intereting, the disassembling various parts of Windows, and modularising the code should result in better maintainance, faster patches, less likelihood of breakages – in theory (which must be emphasised).
With that being said, there isn’t much of an alternative to Windows out there – neither Linux or FreeBSD desktop distributions are up to the standard which end users expect of a distribution, from the lack of hardware support to the lack of third party commercial software vendors for mainstream desktop applications – and no, I’m not going to give up my Creative Suite, Office 2007 and various other applications for the joys of free love, freedom and free code – as *wonderful* as it may sound, my lack of productivity due to lack of polish and attention in opensource applications keep me from moving.
Edited 2007-02-08 03:51
Is it necessary to always be negative about Microsoft?
I think you missed the point of my post…and then managed to change the subject to make this about Windows vs. Linux.
The funny thing is that I’m just as productive when using Linux as I am when I use Windows. OpenOffice makes me just as productive as MS Office, and I’m as productive with Gimp as I am with Photoshop CS2 (all apps I use daily).
To each his own. We know that you’re not ready for Linux, no need to sidetrack the debate to remind us of it.
I am ready for Linux, I ran it for 10 years, I’ve only recently moved to Windows – so please, don’t give me the ‘run down’ on my computer history, I think I know my own computer history best.
I want applications on Linux, and I am not going to use GIMP – I *TRIED* to get involved with GIMP development – because hey, its a volunteer effort, and I thought that it would be hypocritical if I didn’t involve myself givne I have such problems with it.
But after being abused by GIMP developers in their IRC chat room, it spoke volumes to me that they have NO intention on working with people like me who want to improve their software.
I am ready for Linux, I ran it for 10 years, I’ve only recently moved to Windows.
If you ran Linux for ten years, you’re not part of the Ubuntu generation. You must obviously know your way around the Unix system then. Just wondering, how can you live without the control of your system? I.e., on Windows? Or did you get into PC games?
I want applications on Linux, and I am not going to use GIMP – I *TRIED* to get involved with GIMP development – because hey, its a volunteer effort, and I thought that it would be hypocritical if I didn’t involve myself givne I have such problems with it.
Why is that? Virtually every project has more users than developers, and more bugs than developers too, usually.
But after being abused by GIMP developers in their IRC chat room, it spoke volumes to me that they have NO intention on working with people like me who want to improve their software.
Are you that easily discouraged? Just send your patches and show the (apparent) tossers that you fix things they haven’t been fixing. It’s an open source project, not a bar where you meet your kind, and if one were to back off at every person or group that (s)he meets and dislikes, not a single piece of open source software would exist today.
If you ran Linux for ten years, you’re not part of the Ubuntu generation. You must obviously know your way around the Unix system then. Just wondering, how can you live without the control of your system? I.e., on Windows? Or did you get into PC games?
Don’t really play games; considering what Windows was like back when I got into Linux/FreeBSD after migrating from my Amiga 500, it wasn’t as though my expectations were exactly inflated that much – considering I also didn’t know much about who Microsoft was 10 years ago, having been Amiga focused for most of the time, I never really heard about they hype etc of Windows either.
After running Linux, I then moved to an eMac then to an iMac G5; I moved back to Windows last year because Harvey Norman had a 19months interest free deal, but unfortunately it didn’t cover Apple machines, so I was screwed into purchasing a PC.
As for my experience so far, using Windows XP SP2, its not too bad, and with Services for UNIX, I can still navigate my way around; but then again, looking back, I’m a different person to what I was 10 years ago – today, I spend very little time in the technology circles; I surf the net, update my blog, and not really interest in fiddling all that much.
Are you that easily discouraged? Just send your patches and show the (apparent) tossers that you fix things they haven’t been fixing. It’s an open source project, not a bar where you meet your kind, and if one were to back off at every person or group that (s)he meets and dislikes, not a single piece of open source software would exist today.
I have very limited understanding of C and C++ so my advice would be more on the user interface side, usability feedback and the likes; concerntrating on the ‘soft side’ of software development – the unsexy parts.
Regarding the project,I don’t think it is necessary to abuse people who wish to contribute, I hear opensource projects whine about the fact that there aren’t enough contributors, and yet they do nothing about it; they complain not enough females are interested, and can you blame them after the way I was treated? the GIMP team basically came off as a bunch of pimply faced teenagers with a chip on both shoulder with no interest in creating a community, rather, just simply hang out and abuse anyone who comes near them.
Regarding the project,I don’t think it is necessary to abuse people who wish to contribute, I hear opensource projects whine about the fact that there aren’t enough contributors, and yet they do nothing about it; they complain not enough females are interested, and can you blame them after the way I was treated?
That’s a gross overgeneralization, and still very much off-topic. If you behaved the way you do here on the Gimp forum, I can understand why they were rude to you.
the GIMP team basically came off as a bunch of pimply faced teenagers with a chip on both shoulder with no interest in creating a community, rather, just simply hang out and abuse anyone who comes near them.
Do you have any links to your actual comments on the forums? I’d be curious to analyze those exchanges. I find your characterization of the developers rather stereotypical, especially you are likely not to have met them in person.
Now, please let’s get back on topic.
Edited 2007-02-08 15:12
Let’s not judge each other.
Right, I was being a little rude here. I edited the comment to tone it down somewhat.
Still, I’d be curious to read the actual exchange. The Gimp people have made some UI choices over the years that have taken them in a different direction than PS, but “different” doesn’t mean “inferior”.
I would suggest to anyone who wants to run a PS clone on Linux actually write to Adobe and demand that they produce a version of Photoshop for Linux, rather than tell the Gimp developers to change their UI (or, as I mentioned before, use Gimpshop and be happy).
Edited 2007-02-08 15:15
Photoshop is but one of the applications I want; I want the WHOLE Creative Suite, Indesign, Photoshop, GoLive! and so forth.
And no, given that, again, the distributors have done nothing to entice Adobe to produce a version, I sure as heck not going to plaster myself up as the unofficial PR spokes person for “we want Adobe applications for Linux” coalition.
And no, given that, again, the distributors have done nothing to entice Adobe to produce a version
What? That doesn’t make any sense…why would a distributor have to “entice” Adobe to release a Linux version of CS2? Either Adobe wants to sell CS2 for Linux, or it doesn’t…distributors have nothing to do with it.
I sure as heck not going to plaster myself up as the unofficial PR spokes person for “we want Adobe applications for Linux” coalition.
Again, with that kind of attitude, I’m not surprised the Gimp people told you off.
kawai, is it too much to ask you *not* to change the subject to Linux? This thread is about Vista, and its security record, not about Linux or Gimp.
That said, I’m sorry that you had a bad experience with the Gimp developers, however if you’re not using the program because of that, then you are acting in an irrational manner. The lead developer of Mplayer is supposedly a jerk, and yet the program is very good – I’m not going to avoid using a program because of the developer’s personality!
After all, what kind of response did you get from the Photoshop developers when you told them of the problems you had with Photoshop CS2 (like the awful loading time at the beginning, for example).
This is off-topic, so I won’t ask what you didn’t like about the Gimp, but in my experience it is quite an apt replacement for Photoshop (unless you do print work), especially if you use the Gimpshop variation.
If you’ve used Linux for 10 years, then surely you’ve seen the dramatic improvements in it…but considering how you brought Linux into this discussion, even though it wasn’t the topic, I suspect that you have some kind of agenda against it.
“kawai, is it too much to ask you *not* to change the subject to Linux? This thread is about Vista, and its security record, not about Linux or Gimp. ”
As long as you understand your linux pro posts as as off topic as his not so pro linux posts. So why don’t the both of you just stay on topic.
I’m pointing out that the security of Linux may be great, but security isn’t the deciding factor in choosing an operating system – it is made up of a number of other factors; hardware support, software availability and the likes.
Security with Windows has improved, but I don’t think that will the pushing point that will get end users to migrate over – there will be something else which is more visible and tangiable to the end user; security to most people is a not exactly a word used when talking about their needs – most people talk about what they want to do with their computer and what software they like running.
So why don’t the both of you just stay on topic.
You’re right. My posts were only in response to his, mind you: he’s the one that has repeatedly brought Linux into this discussion, and in fact did so again in response to your post.
Personally, I am not going to post another off-topic response…let’s hope that Kawai does the same (but I wouldn’t hold my breath).
Just to stay offtopic
You do know you mentioned linux before he did right?
Yes, I did, in response to someone who mentioned it. However, I did not expound on the merits or shortcomings of Linux, but rather discussed whether or not one could compare the double-talk about Vista taking 5 years to complete with the similar issue about Linux being a hobby OS.
I did *not* start discussing Linux’s merits vs. Windows. I hope you can appreciate the difference…
Well… if you follow the idea that everything should be in balance, then it makes sense that whenever MS spins something, there’ll be counterpoints and (possibly) counterspin.
Unfortunately, Microsoft’s statements often need a LOT of balancing.
Oops… I did it again.
Edited 2007-02-08 09:46
you should be aware, that linux supports a far greater percentage of mainstream users hardware than winblows vista does now, but vista is allowed, right? cause its from redmond!
people complain about no mp3 support out of box on linux, when winblows have it, but they readily accept having to download a typical 50mb compressed codec pack, my libavcodec is… hmm…. 4.7mb and entirely free, but windows is allowed, right?
they complain about nvidia driver not being autoinstalled, but hell, with vista you are lucky if there even is a driver, and as for xp, you must install everything, not keeping in mind putting in FLOPPYS during start to support sata, but hey, its windows. its allowed!
and now people cant run their applications, which they took the great effort to steal and loot from torrents and all sorts of other things, plus getting cracks for at various questionable sites, but going into the package manager is simply TOO much of a hazzle, and perhaps the applications have a few pixels difference(on the graphical side, though they are probably more stable and supports more standards and formats), but this is unaccaptable, and think, perhaps they may even need to WRITE the name of the application they want, UNHEARD OF! A SCANDALE!!
fact of the matter is, on terms of easy of use, and hardware support, linux far outdoes anything that has come out of redmond. people are simply afraid of one pixels difference, EXCEPT if it has a microsoft label on it, then everything is magically allowed.
‘Is it necessary to always be negative about Microsoft?’
– At OSNews? Yes, sad to say.
‘I mean, when I’m negative about Linux, I get abused, insulted, accused of various things ranging from being a Microsoft shill to killing cute little puppies.’
– That’s normal too… now with these ‘2.0’ rating system, the linux fan boys will be modding down your posts like crazy so that people don’t see them.
Just watch this post get modded down! A lot of Americans seem to visit this site, always banging on about free speech. It seems freedom to speak is allowed as long as you not negative about linux or positive about MS.
Edited 2007-02-08 19:04
I was waiting for this to happen. The marketing potential for releasing to the public a piece of software 2 months after it has been officially ‘released’ is huge.
So when drivers aren’t ready for the OS, or software is buggy, then Microsoft (or anyone else) can say that Vista has only been out for 7 days.
But when it comes to viruses etc.. Vista has been out for 2 months.
Yes, a very good observation. Kinda like the fact that when they want people to be impressed with the amount of work that has gone into Vista, they say it has been “5 years in the making”, then when people say “5 years for that?” they say, “well, we had to work on XP SP2, and also on all these other things, blah blah blah”
The amount of spin coming out of Redmond and its cheerleaders never ceases to amaze me.
The amount of spin against Redmond is also disgustingly amazing…
I don’t get why people care so much as to simply lie (either way).
Well, it’s refreshing to hear you acknowledge Microsoft’s dishonesty, and admit that they do indulge in disgusting amounts of spin.
The amount of spin done for Redmond is also disgustingly amazing…
I don’t get why people care so much as to simply lie (either way).
Umm… that’s exactly why I had the word “also” in that sentence.
@CPUGuy
I don’t get why people care so much as to simply lie (either way).
It’s to feed egos. And their emotional investment in their junk.
Very true, but keep in mind that this certainly isn’t exclusive to the Microsoft camp. I’ve read numerous articles and posts describing Linux as the collaborative effort of volunteers from around the globe, as if the the multibillion dollar juganaut was being undermined by a bunch of people working during their free time on weekends. But then if someone says something derisive about how Linux or OSS in general in “unprofesional” or “junk”, defenders are quick to point out (correctly) that most of the people who make substantial contributions to OSS are those who get paid, sometimes by large multinational corporations, to work full time. There are exceptions (Firefox), but the mythology is dated.
Well, Linux *did* start as a hobby project, so part of that claim is true. It’s also true that, nowadays, a large portion of FOSS is produced by paid professionals (though there are still lots of volunteers, including people entering bugs in bug-tracking databases, testing software, providing artwork, and so on).
I do agree that the landscape of FOSS has changed a lot over the years…still, that’s quite different from the Vista double-speak, which is going on *right now*.
In terms of the maturation of Linux and OSS, I think we essentially agree. What I was trying to point out is that I *still* come across people who suggest or at least try to convince others to believe that Linux as of *right now* is still a predominantly volunteer effort. I see this a lot particularly in articles trying to frame the competition as some sort of David vs. Goliath battle.
The basic issue is the same: people modifying the parameters of reality for rhetorical effect.
Yes, I don’t disagree with you on the basics…but the fact is that Linux is still *partly* a volunteer effort, and that the contradiction between the two positions on Linux development is not necessarily uttered by the same people. One should also consider that many anti-Linux advocates like to paint Linux as a hobby OS…
Also, despite heavy corporate involvement in Linux over the past few years, it is *still* a David vs. Goliath battle, at least on the Desktop. Linux may receive many corporate contributions, there is still no entity standing behind it the way MS stands behind Windows (if only marketing-wise).
So while I don’t dispute that there is some contradiction in the example you’ve provided, I don’t think it is quite as striking as the current double-talk regarding Vista.
That said, I still agree with most of what you said.
I see this all the time. Steve Jobs talking about how only 3% of songs on any given iPod were purchased from the iTunes store when it suits him, but Apple disputes those numbers when talking up how much more popular their store is than anyone else’s…
When Linux does well, it’s a professional world-class system; when it doesn’t… well, it’s pretty good for a free hobby OS.
Whenever someone wants to claim scientists are wrong and the big bang is impossible, they bring out data showing that some stars are older than the universe itself, and ignore all the more accurate, more recent data that works out perfectly.
Whenever someone doesn’t like the statistics they’ve been given, they bring out the wonderful old line “there’s lies, damned lies, and statistics”. You find figures that say what you want to.
Of course there aren’t any exploits; it hasn’t been out five minutes.
I might as well say, “Jeffix, a better Linux than Linux, is the most secure OS on the planet because I can confirm there are exactly ZERO exploits, viruses, trojans, worms and other malware for the OS.”
A disinterested observer or whistle-blower can easily respond:
“Well, yes. But that’s because Not a single line of Jeffix code actually exists yet“
Windows Vista has been out since november; if you take into account the several thousand who got free copies because of their bug submissions, plus the copies given to people to look for vulnerabilities, I hardly see it as “hasn’t been out for five minutes”.
I think a better one is “Linux is a great operating system, absolutely secure, no worms or virus’s! there isn’t one single bloody native commercial application for the desktop, but who cares!? its damn secure! you can stare at the box knowing that whilst you do nothing (Because there are no applications which you need that are available on Linux), you’ll be nice and safe!”
Edited 2007-02-08 03:52
I rest my case.
Please take your anti-Linux obsession to another thread. Thanks.
Once again the same old story……
You are beginning to sound like a broken record. Always harping on about the same old crap. Linux has no desktop apps that you can buy….
Don’t you think you are wasting your time with this ?
You want desktop apps that you can buy for Linux, then start harping on at companies like Adobe.
At the end of the day, it is their fault their products are not available for Linux, no-one elses.
Windows Vista has been out since november; if you take into account the several thousand who got free copies because of their bug submissions, plus the copies given to people to look for vulnerabilities, I hardly see it as “hasn’t been out for five minutes”.
“for five minutes” in contexts like that is usually metaphorical. Since you seem to need it spelt out for you, it means “not long”.
In comparison with XP and Linux 2.6, (or even distros like Slackware 10) it certainly hasn’t been out for long. (Yes, I know Slack is now up to 11.)
As for the rest of your post, keep wishing, it might come true.
It has been on release for a few months, but hackers and programmers have had access to it for at least six months or so.
Though I think we’re still in the ‘tyre-kicking’ stage.
All I can say is:
“Cairo”
Please see dictionary.com for help.
maybe you should see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_(graphics)
Is that a record?, even people are saying Wow no BSOD yet, amazing stability.
Next article we’ll be seeing uptime’s of two weeks.
Vista has been out for a little while, RTM that is.
Now if a exploit or flaw has been discovered, it would make a lot more sense to keep that exploit to yourself, so the hole isn’t fixed.
Now after more and more people start to buy Vista and install it on their home machines, now that is a good time to release the exploit and try to do some damage before it’s fixed.
It doesn’t make sense from a hackers point of view to release something that’s not really a viable target just yet.
Indeed, now where can we see figures on the amount of Vista packs sold, or the amount of machines running Vista.
I am actually surprised that it has been on sale for over a week and there has been no web sites showing Vista is installed on its 15m or 20m machine ?
YAAAAAHHHH…..after 25 years Windows is fianally perfect… lets all go out and support our favorite convicted monopolist and racketeer and buy a fresh copy of VISTA ULTIMATE to replace our current non-MS systems that have already been working perfectly for us for atleast the last decade! that way… atleast we can all be that same!!! yeeaaaahhhh!