The Microsoft Windows 10 announcement is still ongoing, but one thing is standing out – Microsoft is finally, finally taking its own tools seriously. They showed a whole slew of new applications, and like Windows 10 being one single platform from phone through Xbox to PC, all of them are 100% universal. And, for the first time, these modern/Metro applications look like real, working, full-featured applications, instead of simple viewers or broken crap.
It goes very far: proper Metro Microsoft Office applications – Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook – that run on phones, tablets, and PCs, sharing their data automatically, and running the exact same code. Even their new browser – codenamed Spartan – is a universal application. It’s all looking really, really great, and based on the live stuff we’ve seen so far, it seems like Microsoft is actually pulling it off.
For the very first time, it finally feels like Win32 can go the way of the dodo. All these new applications are proper, grown-up applications that look like they can actually replace traditional Win32 ones. Even though Win32 applications are now properly integrated into Metro (they use the same gestures and stuff now), it feels like Microsoft is finally hitting the point where it can leave Win32 behind, and focus entirely on modern/Metro.
I was looking at the video on TheVerge of the Outlook metro app, and I hope we’ll still have a Win32 version to fall back on. Otherwise, I’m going to miss having the customizable ribbons, and all my mailbox folders in a nice, hierarchical structure. I think there should be the ability to add toolbars, right click menus, etc. when using metro apps on a desktop. Just because they’re making them available on phones and tablets (which they should) doesn’t mean they have to neuter them on PCs.
He did mention at the beginning that they were still working on the purely Win32 versions of the Office apps, but they were just going to show them off at another time.
Did they announce anything like continuity, where if you have a Windows phone, you can text, receive phone calls, etc on the desktop?
Yup!
The desktop is not a phone or tablet. Metro apps and gestures suck on the desktop, no matter how you look at it. The biggest gripe about Windows 8.x on the PC is Metro apps and gestures. That isn’t magically going to change for Windows 10.
Uh? Care to enlighten us at what point has microsoft not taken their tools dead serious.
Edited 2015-01-21 19:55 UTC
Have you ever looked at Metro applications?
Yes, and?
Their lack of quality (and availability) made it very clear they were not taking their own tools seriously.
This isn’t rocket science.
I think as a developer, I find your language confusing. For me, “tools” are the applications used to build (Visual Studio, Expression Blend, etc), but you use the meaning closer to the final product’s target framework, the API. Tool is not correct word IMO, sorry.
I was confused too but assumed Thom meant Metro applications based on previous comments he’d made over the past few months.
That tripped me up as well. I was expecting information on how VisualStudio was being updated to work with the Windows RunTime.
Quality has never been a hallmark, or a motivation, for microsoft. They’re about shipping products period. Few, if any really, software products sold by that organization have been “fully cooked” when launched. But if there is one thing ingrained in microsoft’s culture is taking their own dog food very very seriously.
The fact that you used “tool” instead of “application,” given the context, made your comment hard to comprehend. It’s piss poor “journalism” (using the term loosely) as usual.
Edited 2015-01-22 18:48 UTC
:’) you made me proud
I hope there is a version of virtualbox available for Windows10 soon after the official Windows10 launch. I think I might need it to run some stuff that should work fine but…
And how do you know they rewrote all of Office instead of taking the easy approach of just polishing their existing Win32 code? Because a Microsoft dude at a presentation said so?
Color me skeptical for large grand announcements of this sort because I’ve heard them so many times before. Like when they said Visual Studio.NET (2002) was all .Net, or when they claimed Vista would be all .Net. Heck even with Windows 8 they forgot to port half their control panel. So what makes you think the guy presenting Windows 10 actually got it done this time around?
By the way, calling something an “universal” application is like bragging that Linux executables are ELF no matter if you run Linux on your router, server, desktop, tablet or phone. Let me translate from marketing BS speech: what they are saying is that a running process can finally offer multiple different UIs depending on whether the display manager thinks its in tablet or desktop mode. A truly cool feature, but it sounds a bit less impressive than ‘universal’, doesn’t it?
Marketing, not technology, is what drives the tech industry… and pretty much every other industry.
The whole universal application, is basically a reiteration (rebranding?) of technology that has been around since the 80s at least. The novelty in this case is on the marketing/distribution/revenue side of things.
Edited 2015-01-21 20:32 UTC
I think the longer explanation sounds cooler.
We know about the complete Office Rewrite because of this: http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-is-taking-on-the-cross-p…
And that rewrite actually includes keeping lots of legacy code (because it works and is tested) and writing as much as possible in WinRT (C++ in this case) which results in this: http://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/10/28/e1485148-5e4a-11e4-…
Continuing down the same path that made Windows 8 a giant middle finger to desktop and laptop owners; sacrificing your existing audience in the blind hope of breaking into markets where to be frank, it is unlikely Microsoft will EVER be anything more than an “also ran”. Blindly flailing in the dark with marketspeak is NOT progress.
Note that for any “shared” code, Apple has the common sense NOT to make iOS and OSX the same thing despite using similar tools. Note that Google has the common sense NOT to try and put Android on a real desktop, and even ChromeOS has a pretty hefty separation.
“one size fits all” is a pipedream, even more so when it comes to software — and telling desktop users to go plow themselves is just going to screw Microsoft over in the long term.
… and sorry, but that’s PRECISELY what Windows 8 was, and what the marketing asshat propaganda about continuing down the Metro path reeks of.
Edited 2015-01-21 20:49 UTC
I don’t know about that. Imagine the following future scenario (in 5-10 years when a phone is about as powerful as a desktop today): You sit down at your desktop, but there is no PC. Instead your monitor detects your phone is next to it and automatically connects and shows a Windows 7 kind of desktop driven by your phone.
With an OS where applications can present themselves in two different modes (the thing MS has been working on for Windows 10) such a system could technically work. Of course the applications would have to be written for both modes for it to be a nice experience and not the horror we know as Windows 8.
Yes, but the question remains if Windows 10 learned from that mistake or not. Based on the news of late it sounds like they at least realized you need different UI’s for different form factors.
Yes, but apparently different form factors mean “screen size of 8 inches or less” and “bigger than 8 inches”.
I admit the devil is in the detail.
All I’m saying is that having a single OS be able to present multiple UIs might not be a bad idea on its own.
The detail being actually existing metro apps taking a dump on the desktop doesn’t bode well for the future of mobile all in one computing pie in sky maybes
Imagine the following future scenario (in 5-10 years when a desktop is about 100 times as powerful as a mobile phone)
Would you use a mobile phone for demanding apps or unleash the full power of the desktop?
Even if some people would like it, PCs will never die. They will be used much less, mainly by people who need to do real work. The rest will use their phones to access web, read emails, watch porn and play Flappy Bird.
Edited 2015-01-22 07:52 UTC
On the plus side desktop computing, for just about everybody, hasn’t been providing us with those huge gains in computing power for.what, getting on for 8/10 years it did in the past. A mobile phone/computer that mimics the desktop of today that can be wirelessly ‘docked’ as a desktop would be more than powerful enough for just about any normal useage.
I wonder, will MS try killing OpenGL in that unified system even on desktops or on the contrary they’ll start supporting it even on Xbox? And if neither of those it means their “unified” system is bunk.
Edited 2015-01-21 23:23 UTC
Given that there is so much choice, why bother?
Metal, DX12, Mantle, GNM, GX…
Maybe Khronos should start by making sure OpenGL 5, is 100% the same code across all API variations, insted of the spaghetti code developers are now forced to write.
OpenGL-next is still in development, but it will eventually come out and should be a much better API (which is specifically targeted for a wide range of devices).
The question rather is, will MS try to sabotage it with their usual sleazy lock-in tactics, or instead they’ll actually do something good for once and will support it in their unified system? Time will tell whether they actually changed, or it’s just all cosmetic and it’s the same old MS inside.
Edited 2015-01-22 00:01 UTC
Everyone on the OpenGL forums is wishing that it doesn’t turn into another Longs Peak.
They didn’t need to, Khronos was able to do it all by themselves
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/60544/why-do-game-de…
http://richg42.blogspot.com/2014/05/things-that-drive-me-nuts-about…
Besides, walk around any GDC and ask around which API professional game developers prefer. Having attended a few of those, I can bet which won’t be.
So much that when given the choice, e.g. PS3, they go and pick the vendors specific one.
If it wasn’t for the iPhone’s success, OpenGL ES wouldn’t even get of the ground, given the dire state of its support on mobile platforms.
Professional developers don’t care about FOSS APIs, they care about engines. As long as the engine supports the desired platforms, everything is as it should be.
Developing games for multiple incompatible platforms has been part of the industry since it exists.
Hence why you never see studios complaining what which APIs a platform offers, rather what its hardware can do.
That link and discussion is outdated especially as it’s pre-Steam on Linux.
It doesn’t change history and the second rant is from the Valve employee responsible for OpenGL Linux support on Steam.
He liked it so much, that he ended up leaving Valve.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTcxNTM
If you prefer a more up to date point of view then.
I agree, but on the other hand most game developers are using a game engine (like Unity 3D) that handles the low level graphics stuff behind the scenes.
Judging by the unique widget sets they’ve designed for win8,8.1, server 2012 and win10 .. can we assume they’re internally called “Fischer Price” ?
Cannot watch the videos or read the articles carefully right now.
What I want to know is if they plan to do something like this -sorry for explanation wrote in poor english-:
Let’s say, I’m running an app on my PC, for example an IRC Client, I have to go to other run or out of home or whatever, can I send that app in the current state to my tablet/mobile/any other device?
That will be the killer feature for me.
Yes. WinRT has roaming storage which can synchronize across devices.
That is sooooo cool.