A Microsoft legal document put a late 2004 expected ship date on the next client version of Windows, code-named “Longhorn,” putting in black and white what Microsoft officials have been telling partners, customers and reporters in private conversations.
Lawyers Confirm Late 2004 Ship Date for Longhorn
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This means we can expect it around December 2005?
I would think this is certainly bad news for PC hardware vendors. I don’t know if most people are like me, but I am waiting to upgrade my current workhorse when Longhorn comes out, as even my spare PC (P3-450) is more than fast enough to run Win2k/XP. If more people are planning to do as I am, this could be a long 18+ months for hardware vendors. Has there ever been a wait this long for a new desktop version of Windows? 2001 – 2004.
Windows 95 – 98. That’s 3 years in between.
Yes there has been a wait this long before. Windows 3.10 was released in november of 1992, and Windows 95 being the next major release of Windows came out in august of 1995. Then Windows 98 in 1998, ME in 2000, and XP in 2001. As you can propably tell, I am only counting major releases of Windows, not bug fixes such as Windows 3.11, Windows 95 OSRx, Windows 98SE. Going by releases so far, the average time between new desktop versions is only 1.6 years. (or 1 year, 7 months, 6 days, 4 hours, 48 miniutes)
What is it about Longhorn that’s supposed to be worth the wait?
WinNT promised strength on the server side. Win95 promised 32-bit apps with ease of use. Win98 was designed with the Internet in mind, plus USB support. Win2000 brought the friendly world of Win9x together with the robustness of NT. WinXP sort of got Win2000 right.
What’s the push with Longhorn? 64-bit apps? Palladium-style security? Flawless DRM? Mind-reading configuration tools? (Mind-configuring tools — it finally thinks for you?) I don’t get the draw.
Doesn’t matter. Even if it makes the 2004 deadline, it’ll be two quarters and three service patches before I’d even consider installing it…
GMFTatsujin
Mind-reading configuration tools? (Mind-configuring tools — it finally thinks for you?) I don’t get the draw.
The “Blue Screen of Death” running my brain?
Does anyone else feel the icy cold fingers of terror running down their spine right now?
Microsoft can’t reall claim that their OpenGL UI is their innovation, since it will have almost been 3 years since Apple released Jaguar. I really hope that Microsoft comes out with some good UI ideas that haven’t been seen in OS X, it really makes me sad to see the “zenith” of the software industry, as they tell us, take other good ideas and twist them into their software.
When I said other good ideas, I was meanin other people’s good ideas. Man I should read my posts over before I post them.
Longhorn is supposed to introduce a new journalizing file system WinFS. This is going to be based on the new SQL server that they are designing, and will allow for an object oriented file system. You would no longer have to go to c:documents and settingsuser nememy documents*.doc and look for files created from a date to a certian date. You would just tell the computer to search for all word documents made between (date1 and (date2). And yes, it is supposed to have complete DRM support, and the .NET framework will be intigrated into it. The desktop will also be more “webby”.
Someone has to has this.
Windows Longhorn’s usability is horrible! Remember those leaked out screenshots from a while ago? That side pane is completely inconsistent with the rest of the environment, adding more clutter to the desktop. All those translucent menus only add more chaos to it’s usability.
Windows Explorer is already cluttered enough, with all those “cute” animated sidepane links and extremely cluttered icon list that contains all kinds of usually useless details. Now they make it a web interface? A web interface is definitely *not* easier than a normal application interface. Heck, I had a hard time trying to find what I want on the web when I first started using computers.
“You would no longer have to go to c:documents and settingsuser nememy documents*.doc and look for files created from a date to a certian date. You would just tell the computer to search for all word documents made between (date1 and (date2).”
Oh yes, as if remembering a date is easier than remembering a name!
Search for all the word documents that the users made between date1 and date2? Isn’t that already possible? Every file in the filesystem has a timestamp.
Windows becomes more and more unusable with each release. The interface becomes more and more cluttered and complex. How can anyone call it “easy” or “consistent”? You people only say that because you’re used to using Windows.
it expects to ship in 2004, it was 2002 when the longhorn alpha is released, big difference. They’re just adding in new features so they can test them. Usability comes later.
Bascule: This is lawyers speaking, nor PR officers. So I think it is December 31st, 2004.
GMFTatsujin: What’s the push with Longhorn?
A 3D accelated UI, via Direct3D.
Avalon, accroading to all Windows rumour sites is as important a release as Win16 to Win32.
A database file system (technically very different than BFS, by the way) so we can all experience the awe power of the Slammer virus (kidding)
.NET Framework integrated into Windows for the first time
And the first fruits of Trustworthy Computing in the total security of the software.
Better DRM via TCPA/Palladium
TCPA support, as well as the very secretive yet much talked about Palladium.
Man, there’s a lot on that list.
SirMacAlot: Microsoft can’t reall claim that their OpenGL UI is their innovation, since it will have almost been 3 years since Apple released Jaguar.
It certainly isn’t OpenGL and Apple certainly wasn’t the first with the idea (albeit while being practically the first in commercializing it). Remember, such an idea was found out by one of those rumour sites months before the world got the wind of Quartz Extreme.
Me: Someone has to has this.
Not really, the product haven’t been release, and from history, we know the product doesn’t bear any resemblance with its 2 year older alpha version.
Me: That side pane is completely inconsistent with the rest of the environment, adding more clutter to the desktop. All those translucent menus only add more chaos to it’s usability.
In both cases, but final. Even the Longhorn logos on the screenshots aren’t final. The screenshots pretty much tell what Longhorn can do right now, but it doesn’t at all tell what it would look and feel like in the future.
As for translucent menus, all the screenies about Longhorn show that only the Sideshow bar menus are translucent. But Sideshow itself is translucent anyway.
me: Windows Explorer is already cluttered enough, with all those “cute” animated sidepane links and extremely cluttered icon list that contains all kinds of usually useless details.
Well, that animated sidepane isn’t bad, usability speaking. And by default, icons don’t give much informations… not even the file extension. They give the name (duh!) and what kind of file it is (for folders, how big it is, IIRC).
Besides, did you look at very early Whistler shots. Did you notice how completely different the Windows Explorer looks then than now? What about Chicago and Windows 95.
me: Oh yes, as if remembering a date is easier than remembering a name!
Just say I was typing a letter two days ago, I forgot where I had saved it. I can remember the date, not the file name. That, IMHO, is easier for me (of course, entirely useless cause I keep my stuff neat and tidy, but many don’t).
This doesn’t mean that file names altogether are gone. That’s still the default way of browsing.
me: Isn’t that already possible?
Currently, maybe. But just say a day after I wrote that letter I opened it without modifying it. But to NTFS, it has been modified and viewed.
me: You people only say that because you’re used to using Windows.
No, it seems you are the one used to the old way of doing things. Old way of navigating through your files. When I moved to Windows from two years of using KDE, I found that Windows XP is very very very much more easier to use. I still perfer Windows 2000 mainly because of Explorer’s stability.
As for cluttered and complicated, Windows XP only tried to reduce that, and you claim otherwise. In many ways, for example the start menu and control panel, it is far less cluttered than previous versions
Ok, a late 2004 date. Hmmm. And then they will probably try to do everything in their power to hammer Win98 into oblivion so that XP and Longhorn will be the only Win’s floating around. Well, it looks like I’ve got about two years of being a windows user left then, before I migrate to Linux. I’m currently using Win98 Second Edition. It’s pretty stable, fat32 and have none of that “all your base are belong to us”-mentality that’s built into WinXP (and Longhorn will surely be even MORE invasive than XP). If I change every goddamned component in my computer on a weekly basis, that’s MY business and not Micro$ofts.
Win98SE is the last win I intend to use. I’m banking on that Linux gets its act together by late 2004. It still needs a standardized installation and package management system for all distros, a much friendlier UI, better font support and software that isn’t v0.95 beta (tried mandrake, red hat and various smaller distros – making VERY good progress as a viable alternative for Joe Sixpack, but it’s not QUITE there yet).
Microsoft can’t reall claim that their OpenGL UI is their innovation
They’re basing their interface on Direct 3D not OpenGL. Given their foot dragging over updating the OpenGL ICD mechanism I’d be surprised if they de-prioritised their own proprietory solution to favour OpenGL. Thankfully the OpenGL extension mechanism negates their attempts to stifle it.
I get the feeling that Longhorn might well be a very good OS. MS must realise consumer favor is turning against them and I’m faily sure they won’t release another OS that isn’t up to standard (i.e. on issues like security, virus susceptability, or DRM transparency). So if Longhorn is delayed that gives alternatives almost 2 years to match MS with an equally appealing feature set.
Having recently been much impressed by the rate of progress shown by KDE 3.1, I have faith
When Windows XP came with WMP8, it was largely critized because it reports to Microsoft want you do with it. Now, fast forward into the future, WMP9 is out, and this is disabled by default (though you can turn it on). Why should Microsoft change that? All they need to do is to mention it in their cryptic EULA and privacy policy, no?
So don’t judge Longhorn even a beta is out.
Im hanging onto win2k until at least the end of 2004. To hell with XP with its product activation and i assume the next version after will be no different. In the meantime ill dabble with Linux and hope its hardware support improves (esp from 3rd party vendors)
win2k has been extremely stable for me
“To hell with XP with its product activation”
…product activation isn’t a problem if you don’t try to steal a copy of Windows. It’s not like free copies of XP Professional are hard to come by, just attend any .NET kickoff…
True. I do most of the daily stuff on a Celli 300@450 – given RAM is sufficient and except for booting up, there is no reason whatsoevefer to change. – But: It is not normally the OS that forces a (CPU-) upgrade, it is games, games, and games. I didn’t want to kill off my 800 MHz Celli + GF2 GTS till late this year, but after I got my hands on Battlefield 1942, I had to upgrade to 1400 Celli + GF4 4200… So I don’t see how this will affect hardware sales…
I’m pretty determined that W2k is going to be my last MS OS. However I’m hoping to have switched my (desktop) over to Linux pretty soon.
Servers on the other hand have been Linux for a long time.
Anyone who judges Longhorn based on either the screenshots or the leaked copy clearly is new to IT or just naive. Longhorn is not even at Alpha stage – I expect it to be nothing like the builds we’ve seen so far. If anything, only the underlying components are changing, the real meat of the UI hasn’t been written, tweaked, or tested yet.
Hows about asking the engineers/developers when it will be ready
My friends who have XP find it a pain in the ass, even though they have legal copys. Yet the ‘pirates’ ‘pirate’ on with their corperate editions/cracks.
Go figure.
Most copy protection ‘solutions’ affect the people who are doing the right thing (or at least close to it), and don’t do a damn thing to stop the real copiers
> A 3D accelated UI, via Direct3D.
Why wait? Go and grab Mac with Mac OSX.
> Avalon, accroading to all Windows rumour sites is as important a release as Win16 to Win32.
Phew! No comment.
> A database file system (technically very different than BFS, by the way) so we can all experience the awe power of the Slammer virus (kidding)
Yep, they will add journaling etc. If you can’t wait, go and grab a Mac.
> .NET Framework integrated into Windows for the first time
How are we able to live without it for non-existing gods sake? : )))))) No .NOTs for me please.
> And the first fruits of Trustworthy Computing in the total security of the software.
Oh, so we have to wait until 2004/2005 to have a secure OS. What about shifting to Linux, BSDs, Mac OSX and forgetting security problems now?
> Better DRM via TCPA/Palladium
Do you count it as a feature for non-existing god’s sake?
> TCPA support, as well as the very secretive yet much talked about Palladium.
Do you count TCPA as a feature for non-existing god’s sake?
You forget to add another thing to the list: EXTRA MS TAX.
Some people try to make fun of Microsoft, because there is a product delay. Every company does that, but to those people, only Microsoft worths to talk about, since they want to make fun of it, punch the Microsoft as much as they want, since it is pretty much free, everybody hates.
Some others, may really concern about it for legitimate reasons. But I don’t see a real reason. Will you be able to change the deadline, no? Is it very important that the product will be on time, as scheduled. I am not even sure there is a product delay, since almost every news regarding Microsoft is pretty much a lie, distortion, whatever. Very few news are actually true.
# A 3D accelated UI, via Direct3D.
>Why wait? Go and grab Mac with Mac OSX.
Mac’s graphics system is SLOW SLOW SLOW.
# Avalon, accroading to all Windows rumour sites is as important a release as Win16 to Win32.
> Phew! No comment.
No, please, comment. Why?
# A database file system (technically very different than BFS, by the way) so we can all experience the awe power of the Slammer virus (kidding)
>Yep, they will add journaling etc. If you can’t wait, go and grab a Mac.
Mac’s journaling is brand new. NTFS has been journaled since version 4 I think, if not…definitely v5.
# .NET Framework integrated into Windows for the first time
>How are we able to live without it for non-existing gods sake? : )))))) No .NOTs for me please.
My money says you don’t even understand the benefits of .NET. You keep saying everything sucks without any reasons. Typical anti-MSer. No idea what they’re talking about.
# And the first fruits of Trustworthy Computing in the total security of the software.
>Oh, so we have to wait until 2004/2005 to have a secure OS. What about shifting to Linux, BSDs, Mac OSX and forgetting security problems now?
Believe it or not, geeks aside, some people actually want this, and that’s part of why MS pushes it.
# Better DRM via TCPA/Palladium
>Do you count it as a feature for non-existing god’s sake?
Again, you don’t. Some do.
> You forget to add another thing to the list: EXTRA MS TAX.
They’re a company for crying out loud. They charge for their products. Why do Open Source people feel they’re entitled to everything for free?
Pssssh…
My money says you don’t even understand the benefits of .NET.
Only the core is a standard. The rest of it is still proprietory. Under those circumstances I can’t get too excited about it, especially when the real benefits are being squashed by said proprietory approach.
Believe it or not, geeks aside, some people actually want this, and that’s part of why MS pushes it.
Introducing DRM without significant changes to copyright law and a restructuring of the economics dependant on copyright material. It’s also likely to subvert the informed and democratic debate that should take place. This is not a good thing.
They’re a company for crying out loud. They charge for their products. Why do Open Source people feel they’re entitled to everything for free?
Well, I don’t particularly care for the OSS crowd. But, when I see a convicted monopolist enjoying double digit markups, I tend to view further revenue generating schemes as a scam, especially when the benefit of their old (and broken) products is hazy and ill-defined quantity.
…product activation isn’t a problem if you don’t try to steal a copy of Windows.
Not to change to topic too much, but I agree with MarkH. I too am hanging on to Win2k as my last MS OS. Why? Product activation is the big reason. I will not be forced into an OS upgrade cycle when Microsoft discontinues distributing XP activation codes at some undisclosed point in the future. If I decide not to upgrade from XP, and 2008 rolls around, why should I have to worry about whether or not I’ll lose my ability to reactivate a product I bought when I upgrade some hardware? I have a habit of reformatting everything every year or two and starting fresh. Why should I EVER have to check in with Microsoft after I buy a product from them?
I’m don’t steal ANY software by principle, but the concept of product activation is still a problem for me. You’d never buy a car that quit running if you happened to do something the manufacturer didn’t want you to do. So, why do we accept that behavior from our software?
“Why wait? Go and grab Mac with Mac OSX.”
They only use 1 small part of the 3d subsystem to accelerate their UI. Basically just moving windows around the desktop.
I have a project underway at the moment implementing a full 3D accelerated UI (from drawing to moving, and not just at the “window” level). It is going well, and I hope to be porting apps into the environment soon. After that I will be looking for some beta testers and get the thing moving.
http://www.desktopbsd.com
Whether or not I actually upgrade to Longhorn will be deteremined by the extent at which I can work around any DRM that is put into it.
When it comes to XP, I have a copy of WinXP Pro with no product activation at all, so this has not been a problem for me
Same with Office XP.
As far as apps phoning home, they can phone home as much as they want as far as I care. If company X wants to know how many porn sites I’ve been viewing this week, fine. And I don’t block cookies either … most sites do it for ‘targeted advertising’ purposes, but since I use Proxomitron and never see any of their ads, they’re just wasting their own system resources anyway
That being said, I do NOT allow any third-party spyware on my system. Phoning home is one thing, but installing unstable apps on my machine just for that purpose is quite another.
I will not be forced into an OS upgrade cycle when Microsoft discontinues distributing XP activation codes at some undisclosed point in the future.
Do you actually have any evidence that says they’ll do this? Besides, once you install the OS, it’s already activated anyway.
why should I have to worry about whether or not I’ll lose my ability to reactivate a product I bought when I upgrade some hardware?
Typical anti-MS “if I install more RAM, MS will turn off my OS” drivel.
I have a habit of reformatting everything every year or two and starting fresh. Why should I EVER have to check in with Microsoft after I buy a product from them?
I recently re-installed WinXP for a friend that had her hard drive crash. When it got to the point where it was time to re-activate, it did so automatically without any intervention on my part. Hell, I didn’t even have to put in the CD key, so it would seem that it is actually easier this way.
XP is not what people are making it out to be. It’s logical, easy, and simple. I would put money on the fact that most people who do the “I’m keeping my Win2k” song and dance haven’t really used XP. I’ve installed both 2k and XP about 50 times each, if not WAY more, and XP is a snap. I only wish they made a mass install method as simple as Red Hat’s kickstart.
XP does not “force you to upgrade.” XP is super stable. XP is fast! Boots much faster than any x86 Linux. It has its quirks, it has its associated security risks, but then, so does everything. The only real gripes I have are that the QoS scheduler eats about 10% of your bandwidth by default until you turn it off and that MSN Messenger is there by default.
XP doesn’t shut off when you upgrade hardware. In fact, you need to upgrade something like 6 separate pieces of hardware to get a complaint from the OS, and like 90% of the time a simple call to MS will fix it if you’re legal. In truth, I’ve never seen a system lock up or complain about hardware changes, I’ve even swapped out a *motherboard* of a live XP system. On reboot, it took it, booted, and ran like a champ.
MS sets the standard and everything else just tries to keep up. Mac’s are getting awfully good, and Linux is making strides but isn’t there (Red Hat is closest, by far).
To get back on topic, Longhorn will be a welcome change to many. As much as I’m pro-Linux these days, I still feel Windows clients are the way to go for the majority. There’s just no comparison.
Do you actually have any evidence that says they’ll do this?
I assume that this was rhetorical and meant to imply, “no, of course not.” But my point was that it is a chance I’m not willing to take. If you are, that’s great.
I recently re-installed WinXP for a friend that had her hard drive crash. When it got to the point where it was time to re-activate, it did so automatically without any intervention on my part
And how do you think that happened? Maybe some .NET web service out there was called and returned your activation code. Convienent, yes. It even appears automatic if you have a broadband internet connection. But will that service ever be turned off? I don’t know. No one does. I’m not an MS basher. I like their stuff, and I program for it daily. However, from my perspective, product activation doesn’t fit with how I use my computer. And if Longhorn has it, there’ll have to be some compelling reason for me to upgrade past Win2000. To each his own I suppose.
@Freddan303
If you got 2 years, save up for a mac, you can install linux on that platform anyway.
…
@Anybody else
I have used XP (on another persons comp) and i DO hate it, its so lame its unreal, WOW finally XP is stable you say, WOW XP ROCKS you say again! Everybody knows that if you use windows, stability and its rocking potentional isn’t the reasons why people use it!
And how do you think that happened? Maybe some .NET web service out there was called and returned your activation code. Convienent, yes. It even appears automatic if you have a broadband internet connection. But will that service ever be turned off?
It probably will, in about 6 years when MS drops support for the OS. So I guess if you’re going to be hellbent on using the OS that long, it might be a problem. But in practice, 99% chance you will have moved on to something else by then.
WOW finally XP is stable you say, WOW XP ROCKS you say again! Everybody knows that if you use windows, stability and its rocking potentional isn’t the reasons why people use it!
That’s certainly true, but stability never hurt anything either
Actually, I personally did not find even Win95 OSR1 to be all that unstable. Of course, it didn’t have the 30 years of uptime that Linux had and I had to reboot it at least once a week – I’d go take a leak, come back and it would be done. It was certainly a small price to pay compared to what I otherwise would have had to put up with using Linux back then or MacOS (before OSX came into being).
Now days, I use Win2k (since 2001) and WinXP and stability is never a problem for me – that’s why I can only laugh at the Linux/Mac pundets who go on these tirades about how Windows crashes all the time. Anybody who starts that ‘crashes all the time’ shit, I come right back at them wit “Well, Linux is too hard to use because you have to compile everything you want to install.” Bullshit flies in both directions.
IIRC (and I may not), XP was originally supposed to be a “rental OS.” That is, you were supposed to pay MS $10 per month or something like that to receive a new activation code so you could continue to use the OS for another 30 days. This would assure MS of a steady stream of income, rather than being dependent on new sales.
Extremely negative reaction from large corporate customers resulted in the activation code being recast as an anti-theft measure. (It is still a PITA on the corporate level, causing hassles when trying to push copies of a standard desktop configuration to hundreds or thousands of corporate users.) But there is no assurance that MS will not at some point try to follow through on their original intent, perhaps just for individuals rather than corporate customers.
What a load of BS. Corporate installs don’t have activation, and MS would *never* have gone for a ‘rental’ business model – how the hell would you manage it where not everyone has internet even. FFS, stop trolling.
XP is a great OS – I’ve never had any real troubles. Its only ever drivers and/or hardware that have caused issues, but that’s not the OS’ or MS’ fault.
A lot of people here are defending product Windows XP product activation and I really don’t see why. First of all, a per computer licence is a ridiculous concept. Especially seeing as MS gets to decide what is a “new computer.” Is it a new computer if you change a video card? How about add a new dvd burner? Or changing your motherboard. If I recall what was being said when XP came out you were allowed to change three components NOT the motherboard. I guess you could get away with it if you change your motherboard without a windows re-install, but few people can manage that feat. If I buy a copy of Windows XP I think I should be able to use it with whatever computer I am currently using. I don’t want to be chained to not upgrading or having to buy another $200 professional box just so I can change motherboards. That is RIDICULOUS. A new mobo can cost as low as $80, we are looking at more than doubling the price here.
Some people will defend such practices, and I guess that is fine. But all I see is Microsoft trying to take advantage of people who don’t know much. It isn’t really fair for someone to pay $200 for WinXP over and over every time they buy a new computer. I won’t, and nobody else should either.
“…MS would *never* have gone for a ‘rental’ business model – how the hell would you manage it where not everyone has internet even.”
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-232659.html
Funny to see how some people act as if their life is affected by DRM.
Ever came to the idea that DRM only plays a role on DRM-protected media? Are your downloaded music files in anyway DRM-protected? No? Then stop pulling this stupid nonsense argument up everytime.
I agree with you that XP is a good operating system. It has many very nice features and is much better than 2000. If you use Windows, XP is the way to go.
Of course if you’ve ever tried to install something like MS Office (and I’m guessing XP works the same) on more than one computer, you’ll never use any Microsoft software again.
So the other viewpoint, to keep what you have until your application X is avaliable on a more flexible platform, makes sense as well.
As for me, Longhorn does not seem to be desirable in any way. They’re going to step up their copy management, which is why I won’t switch now, and they’ve added an XML file system, which seems like alot of overhead when something like
ls -l | grep Jan
along with a little organization works fine for me.
Funny to see how some people act as if their life is affected by DRM.
Ever came to the idea that DRM only plays a role on DRM-protected media? Are your downloaded music files in anyway DRM-protected? No? Then stop pulling this stupid nonsense argument up everytime.
I think the goal of the folks complaining is to try to prevent DRM from *becoming* a prevalent force in technology, not to make a commentary on the state of things as they stand now.
Admittedly, I’m intrigued by the desired intent of DRM – “things should only be used the way they are meant to be used”. That, in theory, means fewer virus issues, fewer exploits, etc. etc. However, I think it’s a utopian view that will never actually be acheived as it was envisioned. Or, it may be acheived, but with serious drawbacks which is what many of the previous posters seem to be predicting.
I can apprciate the complexity of the issue. Users say to Microsoft, “how about a little more emphasis on security?”. Microsoft comes up with Trustworthy-computing and Paladium (DRM). Users say, “No. I don’t want that on my computer. It limits my ability to do what I want. Try again.” Microsoft scratches its head and then changes the name from Paladium to some-god-awful-thing-we-can’t-remember-and-therefore-can’t-pick-on.
Though I’m not intending on using it personally, I’m interested to see what Longhorn will be like. Will people roll over and just accept the limitations Microsoft, Hollywood, and the Government have been lobbying for? Will Microsoft water it down enough that it’s acceptable? Or, will it be a truly Good Thing? It’s just too soon to do more than speculate, but I would not be one to deride the sceptics, Weeman.
Its not just product activation that drives me away from Xp. Its the whole look of the OS. Ive installed XP 3 times now and each time after the install i spend 15min turning off all the new graphical crap. After that i basically end up with an OS the same as win2k. I can see no reason to spend money upgrading to XP when win2k has been extremely stable and there will be hardware drivers available for it for a long time to come.
As a long time user of PCs (12 years) the whole XP activation idea sickens me. Ive always loved upgrading and tinkering with my PC and i hate the idea of having to phone MS if i do major upgrades.
And NO I DONT USE PIRATED VERSIONS OF WINDOWS
CroanoN: Why wait? Go and grab Mac with Mac OSX.
Hello troll, I didn’t say it was a unique feature.
Yep, they will add journaling etc. If you can’t wait, go and grab a Mac.
Yes, especially since they have journalling file system for the client version? they don’t? Oh, so we are better off with NTFS, are we?
How are we able to live without it for non-existing gods sake? : )))))) No .NOTs for me please.
You may not like it, Mr. Troll, but many people do. And this is one of the feature Microsoft would be advertising.
Oh, so we have to wait until 2004/2005 to have a secure OS. What about shifting to Linux, BSDs, Mac OSX and forgetting security problems now?
Sometimes I wonder if you really think. If the whole world switches to Mac OS X en mass, guess what? Mac OS X would be riddle with security problems and viruses just like Windows XP.
Do you count it as a feature for non-existing god’s sake?
Because that’s what Microsoft is going to advertise. People would like this feature because they don’t have to go out and rent a DVD or buy a CD, instead download legal copies.
Do you count TCPA as a feature for non-existing god’s sake?
For me, hell yes. You are so bent against TCPA just because of one company planning to use it, Microsoft. But I doubt you even read the first page of its specifications. It is a multi-vendor, no-royalty, high encryption that requires hardware to decrypt and encrypt it.
You forget to add another thing to the list: EXTRA MS TAX.
I wonder, did Santa gave you the much awaited brain to you this Christmas? Cause if he doesn’t, I really can understand your post.
Besides, I rather pay MS Tax than to follow your suggestion of buying a highly overpriced underpowered machine you call Mac that doesn’t give an iota of flexibility I have with my machines, not forgeting to mention power.
JoeSchmo: Maybe some .NET web service out there was called and returned your activation code.
No… the installer just takes a list of your important hardware, sends it to Microsoft, and it returns a 50 digits long key.
JoeSchmo: Convienent, yes. It even appears automatic if you have a broadband internet connection. But will that service ever be turned off?
Not really. It is 50 numbers for crying out loud, if it is not instanous, than it is close to that. Besides, the service would be turned off unless you decide to change your hardware drasticly (to put it simply, plugging out your HDD and putting it in another computer), I don’t see how the reactivation is so darn difficult and time consuming considering the amount of time you spent changing your hardware.
Besides, if you get a PC from one of those big OEMs, all the better! On the motherboard, there is this ID, and Windows would only work with it. Meaning though matter how much you change the hardware (except if you change the motherboard too), you don’t have to see the activition screen. Ever.
CrackedButter: If you got 2 years, save up for a mac, you can install linux on that platform anyway.
Linux on the Mac…. (with the exception of Gentoo) slow, unstable, outdated, slow, slow, did I mention slow?
Jud: is, you were supposed to pay MS $10 per month or something like that to receive a new activation code blah blah blah
I wonder, you got that from Slashdot’s comments? Or boycottxp.com? Or fuckmicrosoft.com?
Jud: Extremely negative reaction from large corporate customers resulted in the activation code being recast as an anti-theft measure.
Funny to note that corporate customers are the one having plans similar to your renting, except it is more than $10, and it’s time span is a year. Plus, corporate customers never have to use activation at all.
dwilson: Especially seeing as MS gets to decide what is a “new computer.”
Actually, they don’t. You made a lot of hardware changes, you just need to reactivate. Microsoft doesn’t ask you to buy a new copy of XP. You do need to do that if you are using the same copy of XP on more that one machine.
dwilson: If I recall what was being said when XP came out you were allowed to change three components NOT the motherboard.
You recalled wrongly. It would only start again if you change three components in addition to the motherboard, meaning that the chances that this is a different machine is rather high.
dwilson: I guess you could get away with it if you change your motherboard without a windows re-install, but few people can manage that feat.
I extremely don’t see why you need to reinstall Windows XP. It is a utter waste of time. You just need to reactivate the product.
dwilson: If I buy a copy of Windows XP I think I should be able to use it with whatever computer I am currently using.
Most software companies disagree.
Jud: http://news.com.com/2 100-1001-232659.html
It is a pilot program where Office actually resides on Microsoft’s servers.
Matt: Microsoft comes up with Trustworthy-computing and Paladium (DRM)
Palladium is way way way way way way more than DRM. Please draw a line, even though Microsoft is gonna use Palladium in DRM, that’s not it’s only use.
Matt: Will people roll over and just accept the limitations Microsoft, Hollywood, and the Government have been lobbying for?
Actually, if Hollywood gets their way, everyone would be required to use a government-mandated DRM mechanism. Microsoft is one of the memberts in the alliance lobbying against this.
JoeSchmo: Convienent, yes. It even appears automatic if you have a broadband internet connection. But will that service ever be turned off?
rajan r: …Besides, the service would be turned off unless you decide to change your hardware drasticly[sic]…
I think JoeSchmo’s referring to the question of “what if the service that activates you gets turned off”, not the service on your XP box. It’s still probably years down the road, but at some point XP will expire. The worry is that it’ll be a forced expiration if there’s no web service out there responding to your request to reactivate and no one answering XP activation phone calls. Again, it’s probably years away, but no one knows for sure.
Well, if such a thing happen, hire a lawyer, sue Microsoft. The EULA never mentioned a expiry date, so there shouldn’t be one. Understand your legal rights :-). Trust me, Microsoft wouldn’t be so stupid to do something like that just to force people to upgrade. People won’t, they probably would sue.
whatever happend ill keep my win2k
ill test other os instead of upgrading on crap os …
if i ever use xp… its for alpha blending icon THATS ALL
anyway if paladium ever comes out (NO WAY) cant happend
whatever this is total bullshit thinking anyway […]
if we make a website against it…u must first realize that
the risk of this nonsense could possibly exist … and for the moment: i cant.
“Funny to see how some people act as if their life is affected by DRM.
Ever came to the idea that DRM only plays a role on DRM-protected media? Are your downloaded music files in anyway DRM-protected? No? Then stop pulling this stupid nonsense argument up everytime.”
Psst. Think “Fair Use” laws.
Psst. Think, we all aren’t thieves, and companies need to lose the attitude that we are.
Psst. If you don’t think DRM will affect you? Then you haven’t been paying attention.
Psst. DRM isn’t limited to “Media”. DRM TV & Radio. DRM MP3 & CD players. Use your imagination for the rest.
Psst. It’s “nonsense” as long as you don’t have to live under it’s effects. After that, it’s preceded by a swear word.
The companies behind TCPA don’t really care about you.
The music industry is small (like $10 billion annually). The hollywood movie industry is small (like $10 billion annually). Both are fully matured industries (when american movies gross much more than french films in france, more than hong kong films in hong kong — there is no place to expand). The TV/VCR/Stereo industry is a $100 billion industry and has been fully mature for the last decade (everybody’s got 3 tv’s and a couple of vcr’s). All 3 combined and that’s only a $120 billion — not much for microsoft or IBM to squeeze from.
IBM signs multi-year multi-billion dollar contracts with fortune 100 companies, taking over their entire IT departments for 5-7 years. If TCPA can lock up corporate computers and IBM can reduce their employee count on those service contracts — they will make much more money than your little “big brother DRM” conspiracy.
If TCPA increases public confidence on buying stuff online and merchants confidence on b2b exchanges — then that’s a TRILLION dollar industry (again a lot more money than your little “big brother DRM” conspiracy).