Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 3rd Jun 2006 16:18 UTC, submitted by anonymous
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu "Recently, Ubuntu founder and Canonical CEO Mark Shuttleworth spoke with The 451 Group at length about Dapper, Ubuntu, and the trends and development of the open source and free software movements as they relate to enterprise information technology. Last week, we ran Part I of a multi-part series in which The 451 Group presents Shuttleworth's comments along with insight and commentary from 451 Group analysts who cover the worlds of open source and enterprise software."
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RE[3]: shuttleworth gets it
by backdoc on Sun 4th Jun 2006 11:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: shuttleworth gets it"
backdoc
Member since:
2006-01-14

You make it sound like he won the lottery or something. I think it's more substantial than that. To me, the point is: "He did it". That makes him pretty smart, clever or whatever you want to call it. I know you eluded to this. But, you bordered on just calling him lucky.

It's frustrating to me when people look at other people's success and think that they somehow didn't/don't deserve it. The fact is that most successful people do deserve their success. They either worked hard for years, invested in their own ideas and made good decisions or knew how to sieze an opportunity.

I'm not saying that you didn't giving Shuttleworth credit. I'm just saying you could have done it without all of the stipulations.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: shuttleworth gets it
by ormandj on Sun 4th Jun 2006 13:28 in reply to "RE[3]: shuttleworth gets it"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

"You make it sound like he won the lottery or something. I think it's more substantial than that. To me, the point is: "He did it". That makes him pretty smart, clever or whatever you want to call it. I know you eluded to this. But, you bordered on just calling him lucky. "

In all essence, he did win the lottery, and that was absolutely my intent to make clear, hence I wrote what I wrote. I did not "border(ed) on just calling him lucky", however. I specifically wrote he seems to be a sharp/intelligent fellow.

Again, like most people in that era who made big money, it didn't matter if you were smart or stupid, if you "won the lottery", you "won the lottery." The lottery doesn't discriminate based on intelligence or some kind of sense of entitlement where you *deserve* to win. Mark got EXTREMELY lucky. Tell me with a straight face, and with all honesty, that you think selling a company which sells signed certs named "Thawte" or whatever it was called is worth 500+ million. That's nuts. Absolutely nuts. He *got lucky*.

"It's frustrating to me when people look at other people's success and think that they somehow didn't/don't deserve it. The fact is that most successful people do deserve their success. They either worked hard for years, invested in their own ideas and made good decisions or knew how to sieze an opportunity. "

Nobody said he didn't deserve it as you suggest. I'm sure the guy is a hard worker blah blah blah and deserves his 500 million. I won't speak to what I think about the free market rewarding somebody so much money that he cannot possibly spend it all without insanity, but hey, he "earned" it, even if "earning" it simply means starting any random company during the .com bubble era and selling it to any other random company with lots of cash. ;) Nobody is saying he's not a hard worker and so forth.

I will, however, make a point. You say the "most successful people do deserve their success." You seem to be an idealist, that's quite good, I wish I had the same ability. However, let me show you a optimistic but realistic view. Successful people have learned to manipulate those around them in order to be successful. In Shuttleworth's case, he manipulated a big company into paying a gazillion dollars for something that can be done with a 500$ (back then 1000$) pc, and about 2 hours worth of coding. 500 million for that *idea* basically. The reward really overshadows the accomplishment, imo. Let's look at some other successful people. Britney Spears, we all know she's super duper talented and deserves her millions, right? Hell no, she looks good (to some.. apparently most) but she can't sing worth a damn, her music is very likely not written by her (both music and lyrics), and her success simply hinges on the huge marketting machine which manipulates youth (her label) basically telling people "you like her music and lyrics, plus she's hot. Buy her music at 20 dollars a cd!" They do, in droves. Do you *really* mean to say she is somehow deserving of her millions? I mean we're talking more money than Martin Luther King ever made, by far. More money than just about any of the heros in the 9/11 made or will *ever* make, for *anything* they do, more money than probably anybody you have ever known will make, etc. I can think of a LOT of people who *deserve* at least a moderate amount of success.

That's not how it works though. A few people *get lucky* and make 99% of the money in this country. The rest of us run around praying to "win the lottery." Success isn't tied to blood, sweat, and tears like it used to be. It hasn't been that way for a long time, and that's why a lot of the things are as screwed up as they are. Shuttleworth may not be an example of this, maybe he really did deserve 500 million+ dollars for basically an idea. Who knows, I'm not in a position to make that judgement. I'm just saying it's not as rosey as you make it seem to be.

"I'm not saying that you didn't giving Shuttleworth credit. I'm just saying you could have done it without all of the stipulations."

By making this statement, apparently you are missing my point. I'll say it again, Shuttleworth seems to be quite an intelligent fellow. I still don't think he *deserved* 500 million, but hey - he got lucky! There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. ;) Some people win the real lottery too, is that a bad thing?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: shuttleworth gets it
by backdoc on Mon 5th Jun 2006 00:42 in reply to "RE[4]: shuttleworth gets it"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

OK. I don't want to go around in circles on this. We're not that far away on this. You make some good points. All I'm saying is that he took an opportunity that you and I and practically everyone else in the world had the same opportunity to take. But, he's the one that did it. You can't call him lucky for that. And, for that matter, I don't think you can call Britney Spears lucky either. I don't like her stuff. I would never pay money to hear her sing. In fact, I might pay money to not have to hear her music. But, I don't think of people like this as lucky. Anyone can put together the same combination. No one is stopping you from doing it, since you know how it is done.

On pretty much everything thing else I agree with you.

Reply Parent Score: 1