Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 2nd Aug 2006 06:37 UTC
Gnome After all the debate, gtk# will most likely find its way into GNOME. "The release team has completed its second meeting to try to finish the new module decisions. And, after all the long threads on d-d-l and the many discussions amongst ourselves trying to determine community consensus, we finally have the decisions. In summary: orca, alacarte, and gnome-power-manager are in; gtk# and tomboy are in, assuming the issues mentioned are resolved; sticky notes becomes deprecated, assuming tomboy issues are resolved and gets in." Update: Elijah Newren emailed me concerning an important aspect of the current decision, and asked me to highlight it. So, read more!
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Gnome: Driven by Applications
by charlieg on Wed 2nd Aug 2006 09:57 UTC
charlieg
Member since:
2005-07-25

Gtk#/Gnome# inclusion was inevitable. It is a decision driven by the available applications.

Regardless of your stance on the ethics and legal ramifications of adopting Mono, it can not be denied that several best-in-class applications are emerging that are developed on Mono. They showcase Mono not just as a viable application development platform, but even moreso one that increases productivity and facilitates the creation of quality programs.

Look at Beagle, F-Spot, Banshee, Tomboy. Then there's the development environment MonoDevelop. People push Python but where are the showcase Gtk/Python applications? What RAD tools does Gtk/Python have?

Mono is based on ECMA standards, there is no legal ambiguity. There is nothing Microsoft can do to pull Mono down in a court of law, the lines are drawn and the law is clear. There is enough corporate push behind Mono to fend off any potential attrition lawsuits. So not only is Mono legally sound, it is also capable of defending itself.

At the end of the day users care about one thing; the programs they use. If users use Mono applications then including Gtk#/Mono as part of the Gnome desktop is the only logical direction. You can't ignore your users.

Reply Score: 5

chris_dk Member since:
2005-07-12


Mono is based on ECMA standards, there is no legal ambiguity. There is nothing Microsoft can do to pull Mono down in a court of law, the lines are drawn and the law is clear. There is enough corporate push behind Mono to fend off any potential attrition lawsuits. So not only is Mono legally sound, it is also capable of defending itself.


I like Mono, but there are problems using it. The database layer is using ADO.NET which is patented and so Novell can be sued if Microsoft wants.

This is a problem nobody can deny. See http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing

It means that if Novell gets sued Mono programs most likely will need to be rewritten using a new database API. I cannot really see how they keep the ADO.NET API.

Reply Parent Score: 4

tristan Member since:
2006-02-01

People push Python but where are the showcase Gtk/Python applications?

It's early days, but Jokosher looks excellent. Also, Quod Libet demonstrates that it's possible to use PyGtk for large apps (although I personally use Banshee).

What RAD tools does Gtk/Python have?

Python really does need a decent IDE, I quite agree.

Reply Parent Score: 3

mkone Member since:
2006-03-14

I have Quod Libet and Listen (both Gtk/Python apps) on my computer, and they do struggle with large databases. For small databases, they probably do not cross over the threshold beond which their lack of speed is noticeable, but I might have crossed that threshold, and they rapidly become slow, react slow and all.

Mono apps are a bit slower than pure Gtk apps, but Mono is getting faster all the time.

Reply Parent Score: 2

abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

Python really does need a decent IDE, I quite agree.

Try PIDA. It's my favorite Python IDE.

http://pida.berlios.de/

Reply Parent Score: 1

g2devi Member since:
2005-07-09

> Look at Beagle, F-Spot, Banshee, Tomboy.

My own experience:

* Beagle -- pretty decent but it seems to take too much memory. I turned it off a few days after installing it.

* F-Spot -- Not a bad app, but it does have one fatal shortcoming that sent me back to GQView quickly: Import seems to be the only way to get things into the system, just like Picasso. If F-Spot adds support for viewing directories or files directly or file collections specified from a text file, I might look into it again. Otherwise, it's not worth the trouble.

* Banshee -- Pretty decent, but is a bit sluggish compared to Rhythmbox and also lacks internet radio. It also seems to crash quite a bit.

* Tomboy. No opinion. I tried it and didn't find it useful but I didn't find sticky notes useful either so I'll leave it to the sticky enthusiasts to figure out the differences.

* MonoDevelop -- Supports only Mono apps. If you're a Mono developer, it's great. Otherwise, you're out of luck, so I wouldn't call it generally useful. My personal favourite for multi-lingual programming is Eclipse (based on Gtk+ too), although JEdit is a close second. SciTE used to be a favourite but it added a "feature" that made it unusable. Previously, if you opened a file in a directory and wanted to open another file, it stayed in the directory you opened this file. This made sense since project files tend to be in the same directory. Now, it resets to the "Documents" directory each time. Why? Documents has a short-cut, my current directory doesn't, so I have to navagate back to my spot to open another file.


In short, Mono apps are not the best of the breed yet. From my experience, they need to work on reducing their resource usage and at the same time add features available in their C/C++ based Gtk+ counterparts or non-Gtk+ based counterparts.

Reply Parent Score: 4

JCooper Member since:
2005-07-06

* Beagle -- pretty decent but it seems to take too much memory. I turned it off a few days after installing it.

Beagle has always been quite memory hungry, but it has been improving by leaps and bounds. If it's something you're interested in using, re-visit it every now and again. The memory usage on my Dapper laptop is considerably lower than in the Breezy era.

* F-Spot -- Not a bad app, but [...] Import seems to be the only way to get things into the system

This is true, however if you point Import at a top level directory, it works great. I must admit, however, if you're not bothered about the Flikr, tagging etc integration then GQView is likely the best bet.

* Banshee -- Pretty decent, but is a bit sluggish compared to Rhythmbox and also lacks internet radio.

Check it out again - the internet radio functionality has been moved out to a plugin. There's also a lot of cool stuff going into Banshee - the latest HEAD has support for pulling music from iPods, will have an EQ. Again though, if RB suits you, and as there's no common DB layer, you're probably best sticking to whatever you use to avoid having to re-import and rate all your music! For more info about banshee - check out Aaron's blog - http://abock.org/2006/07/27/more-bling-from-the-banshee-front/

Reply Parent Score: 3

Mystilleef Member since:
2005-06-29

People push Python but where are the showcase Gtk/Python applications? What RAD tools does Gtk/Python have?

You must be living under a rock.

http://pygtk.org/applications.html

Reply Parent Score: 4