Linked by Andrew Youll on Fri 19th Aug 2005 21:13 UTC, submitted by tbutler
KDE Just over a year ago, Tim Butler wrote an article which outlined why he thought the GNOME Project was clearly the free software desktop project with the best vision of the future. KDE's Appeal Project, which has been brewing for some time now, looks to a different set of issues that need solving and has some very smart minds at work on solving those problems. In a few words, KDE's got some of "that vision thing" too, according to Tim.
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RE[9]: The problem with KDE
by segedunum on Sun 21st Aug 2005 09:50 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: The problem with KDE"
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

So sorry, Segedunum. Novell has chosen Gnome for the vast majority of their desktop development and no matter how many times you scream "IT IS NOT the default" does not change the fact that Ximian is heading up the desktop efforts at Novell.

Sorry, but you live in a fantasy world - Suse has always picked KDE and now Novell quite clearly has in their choices for OES and SLES - their money-making products. Their core products ship with it, by default - end of story.

The Gnome and Mono stuff is the shite they can't quite get rid of. It will kill Novell, but hey, that's Novell.

That tells everybody that you are a not a rational person because you believe that some trolltech license scheme for glibc could have been feasible, rendering linux completely useless.

You're going in circles again. As I've said consistently, it depends on whether it was practical for the software at hand.

You're getting religious about licensing again. Again, not every piece of software can be available at no cost whatsoever, and you losers are just going to have to realise it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[10]: The problem with KDE
by on Sun 21st Aug 2005 10:33 in reply to "RE[9]: The problem with KDE"
Member since:

>The Gnome and Mono stuff is the shite they can't quite get rid of. It will kill Novell, but hey, that's Novell.

quite good arguments! If there is something which isn't compatible with your world than it's a failure and even will kill a whole company... wake up neo.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[11]: The problem with KDE
by segedunum on Sun 21st Aug 2005 13:18 in reply to "RE[10]: The problem with KDE"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

quite good arguments! If there is something which isn't compatible with your world than it's a failure and even will kill a whole company... wake up neo.

On what basis do I make that statement? Mono has had millions pumped into it for five years with zero (zilch, zip, nada) returns, and it still isn't usable to attract anybody from the Windows world. There is simply no market for it.

Look at Red Hat. They've focused around Gnome in Fedora, and now they're focusing on Java gcj development with Eclipse (where the market is on Linux and Unix), GTK and Gnome. Fantastic. It remains to be seen whether they've made quite the right choices, but that's something that is going to get them results. Novell and Suse should just focus desktop development around where their expertise is - namely YaST, Qt, KDE and possibly Java. Start a project to enable good Java integration in KDE, support the new KDE Eclipse project (http://kde-eclipse.pwsp.net/) and grow the market. Do something useful for the community and your customers and get rid of this crap.

If Novell continue to be undecided about what they're using and what they're presenting to people then Open Suse, and their products, are just going to end up as one big mass of flaming (just look at some of the bug reports) and uncoordinated duplicate efforts that just don't hand together. No wonder good people are leaving. Over to you Novell.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[10]: The problem with KDE
by Torsten Rahn on Sun 21st Aug 2005 11:14 in reply to "RE[9]: The problem with KDE"
Torsten Rahn Member since:
2005-08-20

>> does not change the fact that Ximian is heading up >> the desktop efforts at Novell.

This is inaccurate, too. The product manager of the NLD e.g. is Guy Lundardi, who is neither involved with KDE nor Gnome.
For SUSE Linux the KDE/Qt people are responsible for the KDE desktop as well as the administration tools and the Gnome guys are just responsible for the Gnome desktop.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[10]: The problem with KDE
by Lumbergh on Sun 21st Aug 2005 20:04 in reply to "RE[9]: The problem with KDE"
Lumbergh Member since:
2005-06-29

Sorry, but you live in a fantasy world - Suse has always picked KDE and now Novell quite clearly has in their choices for OES and SLES - their money-making products. Their core products ship with it, by default - end of story.

Suse doesn't exist anymore. It's Novell and they have put Ximian in chare of the desktop efforts. No matter how much you hate that, you can't change it

The Gnome and Mono stuff is the shite they can't quite get rid of. It will kill Novell, but hey, that's Novell.

Can't get rid of and shit? The shit is the Qt license and that's why no big vendor will touch KDE. Mono is a fine framework and will be increasingly popular as time goes on for the mere fact that everything in windows will be .NET eventually.

You're going in circles again. As I've said consistently, it depends on whether it was practical for the software at hand.

You're still trying to justify a possible dual-licensed glibc. You have no concept of how business works.

You're getting religious about licensing again. Again, not every piece of software can be available at no cost whatsoever, and you losers are just going to have to realise it.

It's you losers that chose a toolkit with a bad license. See Segedunum, I know its hard for your limited mental capacity to understand, but Qt is a *library* (not an app), and the base of the entire desktop. That's why the LSB will not consider Qt

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[11]: The problem with KDE
by on Sun 21st Aug 2005 20:44 in reply to "RE[10]: The problem with KDE"
Member since:

> Suse doesn't exist anymore.

Sure it does. Both the company and the product.

> It's Novell and they have put Ximian in chare of the desktop efforts.

Ximian and the Ximian brand doesn't exist anymore. And former Ximian employees are only in charge of the GNOME desktop.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[11]: The problem with KDE
by segedunum on Sun 21st Aug 2005 21:41 in reply to "RE[10]: The problem with KDE"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Suse doesn't exist anymore.

Hmm. So that's why there is Open Suse and we still have Suse Pro and SLES.

It's Novell and they have put Ximian in chare of the desktop efforts.

Where? And I'll point out that there definitely is no such thing as Ximian now.

Can't get rid of and shit? The shit is the Qt license and that's why no big vendor will touch KDE

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... Please reply to the above comments and arguments as to why it isn't a problem. Saying it several thousand times does not make it so.

You're still trying to justify a possible dual-licensed glibc. You have no concept of how business works.

You have no concept of what software development is, the effort required or the investment needed to do it. That's why dual licensing exists.

That is business.

It's you losers that chose a toolkit with a bad license.

Yawn. Please reply to the many comments on the subject on this article as to why it isn't so. Simply saying it several thousand times makes no difference whatsoever.

You are a laugh, I'll grant you.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[11]: The problem with KDE
by segedunum on Sun 21st Aug 2005 21:46 in reply to "RE[10]: The problem with KDE"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

See Segedunum, I know its hard for your limited mental capacity to understand, but Qt is a *library* (not an app)

Yer, and? I mean I appreciate you going roung the houses and all, but - and?

and the base of the entire desktop.

Really? As you've said - Qt is simply a library! You are a fish.

That's why the LSB will not consider Qt

Oh dear. Shame.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[11]: The problem with KDE
by Terracotta on Sun 21st Aug 2005 22:51 in reply to "RE[10]: The problem with KDE"
Terracotta Member since:
2005-08-15

"You're still trying to justify a possible dual-licensed glibc. You have no concept of how business works. "

Should an open source projects not started by a company do what the companies want? No. Does someone have to use qt to write an app that runs in kde? I think not. Than you see: if a company wants to use the 'better'-licensed, whatever you mean by it., it can. So what effect does it have on kde? besides than that they've got a way better toolkit? Trolltech will keep on existing, and if not, everything is under the bsd-licence, so KDE will always be able to use qt. And everyone who doesn't want to use it doesn't have to. I've seen you repeat often that it's a bad dual licence, and that everyone who doesn't see it don't know anything how business work, well, fund your statement please? Telling something is bad, doesn't make it bad you know. Well, it can make people believe it's bad, but those are microsoft tricks, it's not something to be expected from an open-source guy, he should know that choice is what makes linux, and taking that away will kill it.

Reply Parent Score: 1