Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 12th Jun 2007 15:23 UTC
Mac OS X As you have surely noticed by now, Apple's CEO Steve Jobs held his keynote speech yesterday at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco. So far, the responses have been mixed; I have seen a lot of excitement, but also a lot of disappointment. Personally, I am not really sure where I stand.
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RE[2]: Copied from what ?
by Duffman on Tue 12th Jun 2007 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Copied from what ?"
Duffman
Member since:
2005-11-23

The dock was not 'created' by Apple. RISC OS already had a dock in 1987, 2 years before NEXT, and I'm sure there have been similar implementations before.

The Risc OS icon bar is not the same thing as shown in the wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_%28computing%29
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The Dock is a graphical user interface feature first introduced in the NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP operating systems, and radically changed and refined in Mac OS X, where it behaves more like the Apple Newton's Newton OS Dock.

A similar feature, called the Icon Bar, has been a fundamental part of the RISC OS operating system and its predecessor Arthur since its inception, beginning in 1987, which pre-dated the NeXTSTEP dock (released in 1989). However, upon further examination the differences are quite noticeable.
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Now your points as you think for me, I will think for you:
When discussing Linux: logical evolution or "shameless" copy as you said.
When discussing Apple: always copying/stealing never innovating.

Anyway, when you take a look at Mac OS X 10.0 screenshots and then you take a look at the Sun dock in Looking Glass, only a dishonest guy can say that Apple is copying Sun.

They have it since 2001, and they just change in Leopard the way the outline is drawn...

Edited 2007-06-12 16:56

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Copied from what ?
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 12th Jun 2007 16:59 in reply to "RE[2]: Copied from what ?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

So it is written on Wikipedia, and we all know what's on t3h intern3t is true.

Get real, the dock is a very, very general UI concept, implemented in various different ways by different operating systems. ARTHUR (RISC OS 1) was the first release I could find where it was used, but as I said, there may be other implementations even before Arthur.

Duffman, you capped the Wikipedia article at a really interesting point. did you read on? It made me laugh, you see.

"The main difference with the NeXTSTEP and Mac OS X Dock, is that the Icon Bar only displays icons for active, or loaded, applications. Also, the Mac OS X Dock will scale down accordingly to accommodate expansion, whereas the Icon Bar will simply scroll. Lastly, the Icon Bar itself has a fixed size and position, which is across the bottom of the screen."

Those are not "differences" that are notable in any way. The icon bar in ARTHUR/RISC OS is a dock, no matter the spin Wikipedia tries to put on it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Copied from what ?
by Duffman on Tue 12th Jun 2007 17:10 in reply to "RE[3]: Copied from what ?"
Duffman Member since:
2005-11-23

Ok so when YOU post some articles from the wikipedia, that's ok, that's the truth.
But when someone not thinking like you do the same and post an article that YOU do not agree with, it's wrong, they are lying.

Get real, the dock is a very, very general UI concept

Get real, the dock is NOT only a general UI concept, it's a behaviour, it's the way it works, the way you use it. And that's the point the wikipedia try to reveal but it seems that you do not want to understand.

Now the Sun dock is just working like the Apple's one.

Just take a look at the one in Leopard, nothing change it's still use 2D icons and working the same way (plus stacks).

The day Apple will use high definition and moving wallpapers like in Looking Glass, you will be able to say that Apple copied Sun.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Copied from what ?
by PowerMacX on Tue 12th Jun 2007 17:45 in reply to "RE[3]: Copied from what ?"
PowerMacX Member since:
2005-11-06

"The main difference with the NeXTSTEP and Mac OS X Dock, is that the Icon Bar only displays icons for active, or loaded, applications"

Those are not "differences" that are notable in any way. The icon bar in ARTHUR/RISC OS is a dock, no matter the spin Wikipedia tries to put on it.


So you never use the dock to launch apps? I think that qualifies as a major difference.

What distinguishes the Dock from a simple process list window OR an app launcher is that it's both, at the same time. It has to do with the fact that unlike other OS systems, the concept of "application instance" doesn't apply to OS X, so a separate launcher/active processes display would be redundant.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Copied from what ?
by tyrione on Wed 13th Jun 2007 00:07 in reply to "RE[3]: Copied from what ?"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

You're patently wrong. You don't like it. Tough crap. Grow a pair of balls and admit your research was flawed.

If you want, go whine to Apple Engineering and ask them to show you an pre 1.0 version of NeXTSTEP with the Dock and how it's functionality plus interaction with the GUI was original.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Copied from what ?
by sbergman27 on Tue 12th Jun 2007 17:18 in reply to "RE[2]: Copied from what ?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
BTW, the reality is that THEY are leading the innovation as every body is always comparing its OS to Mac OS X.
"""

"Innovation" is a four letter word, in my book. Please don't use it. Or, if you do, either put it in quotes or explain that you are *using* the word and not abusing it in this, exceptional, instance.

When I was in school, the printing press and the Jacquard loom were what we thought of as great innovations... not a new closeness setting on our Dads' electric razors.

The sooner we get back to "Doing Cool Stuff" and sharing our triumphs, rather than "Innovating" and issuing press releases about it, the better off we will all be.

Unfortunately, the word "innovation" itself is likely ruined for at least a generation's time.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Copied from what ?
by IanSVT on Tue 12th Jun 2007 17:33 in reply to "RE[3]: Copied from what ?"
IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

Unfortunately, the word "innovation" itself is likely ruined for at least a generation's time.


Agreed. Same with the acronym "FUD". If there's a term or phrase that can compete with "innovation" as far as its overuse in IT, it's "FUD".

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Copied from what ?
by Tuishimi on Tue 12th Jun 2007 19:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Copied from what ?"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Stop spreading FUD! Oh, wait...

Reply Parent Score: 3