Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 23rd Sep 2007 13:43 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Just like Eugenia yesterday, I also upgraded my laptop's Ubuntu Feisty installation to Gutsy a few days ago. The upgrade process went completely awry, though, so I was forced to do a fresh install. Not a bad thing, as it gave me the opportunity to take a look at Ubuntu's soon-to-be-released Gutsy Gibbon with GNOME 2.20
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DeadFishMan
Member since:
2006-01-09

The new things in I mentioned ARE NEW TO GNOME/UBUNTU. When I'm (p)reviewing a product, should I say, at every new feature: "the following products already include this feature", followed by a list?

That's not an acceptable excuse Thom and you know that. We're not talking about hundreds of window managers or different distros here, but about the TWO biggest desktop environments available out there for *nix desktops. Praise GNOME for features that have been available on its biggest competitor for years and not even mentioning it?!?!? You call this non-biased journalism??? Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot!

I really don't see what is so hard in saying something like "Ubuntu got feature A which is a good thing although this same feature has been present in KDE-based distros for quite sometime" or something along these lines.

Not that I particularly missed anything as I am pretty aware of these features and have been enjoying them for years and Ubuntu reviews on this website is like preaching to the choir anyway, but you guys could at least pretend that you're doing a fair and balanced review...

I'm sorry, but simply DETEST mixing KDE and GNOME applications. I have my reasons for that, but even if I didn't - it's my choice, and that's enough reason alone.

I would say "Your loss, pal!" here. I don't like to mix toolkits as well but I wouldn't settle down with an inferior application just because the better one happens to be coded with the "other toolkit". I mean seriously... Why use any GTK-based music player instead of Amarok, which is hands down the best music player currently available? Why use a Qt vector drawing application when currently there is nothing that beats Inkscape? That reasoning is beyond me...

Reply Parent Score: 10

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

That's not an acceptable excuse Thom and you know that. We're not talking about hundreds of window managers or different distros here, but about the TWO biggest desktop environments available out there for *nix desktops. Praise GNOME for features that have been available on its biggest competitor for years and not even mentioning it?!?!? You call this non-biased journalism??? Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot!


I'm sorry I stepped on your KDE heart. I haven't seen Aaron Seigo complain here yet, and he's kind of my benchmark on these issues ;) .

I really don't see what is so hard in saying something like "Ubuntu got feature A which is a good thing although this same feature has been present in KDE-based distros for quite sometime" or something along these lines.


Yeah, and then I'd be labeled as a KDE fanboy. You haven't been on the internet long, have you?

Reply Parent Score: 2

FooBarWidget Member since:
2005-11-11

"I would say "Your loss, pal!" here. I don't like to mix toolkits as well but I wouldn't settle down with an inferior application just because the better one happens to be coded with the "other toolkit". I mean seriously... Why use any GTK-based music player instead of Amarok, which is hands down the best music player currently available? Why use a Qt vector drawing application when currently there is nothing that beats Inkscape? That reasoning is beyond me..."

Agreed. I think all this fuzz about toolkit wars is total rubbish. Windows Media Player looks totally different from all the other Windows apps and somehow people are fine with that. The latest Office looks totally different from other Windows apps and people are fine with that. Ditto for MSN Messenger. Heck, most commercial Windows apps these days use some kind of custom control or are in some way skinnable, and I don't see people complaining about that.
The difference in looks between GTK and QT is not that great, yet people make a huge deal about this.

Reply Parent Score: 9

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I think all this fuzz about toolkit wars is total rubbish.


It might be total rubbish to you - but it is probably also total rubbish to you that I want my cups' ears in my kitchen cabinets to all point in the same direction. Sure, total rubbish to you, but still, I find it important to give my kitchen a clean and tidy feel.

Windows Media Player looks totally different from all the other Windows apps and somehow people are fine with that. The latest Office looks totally different from other Windows apps and people are fine with that. Ditto for MSN Messenger. Heck, most commercial Windows apps these days use some kind of custom control or are in some way skinnable, and I don't see people complaining about that.


Why do people ALWAYS insist in pointing fingers whenever a person points out a flaw in product xyz? It is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

And in case you want to know: I have complained numerous times about the graphical inconsistency in OSX and Windows. I thoroughly HATE it.

The difference in looks between GTK and QT is not that great, yet people make a huge deal about this.


Way to be superficial. Qt applications do not only look different, they behave different. They have a different layout, different behaviour, differently organised menus, different types of buttons, different types of just about anything.

It's great that you have no problems running them side-by-side. But please don't make it seem as if people who in fact do NOT like it, and have clear reasons for that, are idiots.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Why use any GTK-based music player instead of Amarok, which is hands down the best music player currently available?


Amarok the best music player out there? Well, it might be for you, and that's great. I absolutely hate Amarok, it's the seed of the devil for me, UI wise. It has vertically labeled text tabs for crying out loud! Any application who has those ought to be removed from the internet by law.

Seriously. It's great you like Amarok, but please don't make sweeping generalisations about it being the best there is - because it isn't.

Reply Parent Score: 3

anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

...but please don't make sweeping generalisations..


"You haven't been on the internet long, have you?" -- Thom Holwerda

Reply Parent Score: 4

DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

I don't know... I don't think that Exaile developers think that Amarok's UI is that bad considering that Exaile is an almost exact copy of Amarok - including that vertical toolbars, mind you! - but made with GTK for GNOME desktops and since it has become somewhat popular among GNOME users lately, I'd be inclined to believe that Amarok UI is in fact just fine. Remember the old saying? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Seriously. You might not like Amarok because of something on its UI - or because it is made with Qt - but you can't deny that it is the most full featured music player out there because it is.

Reply Parent Score: 4

devurandom Member since:
2005-07-06

Feature-wise, what beats Amarok on Linux? Not trolling, it's a serious question: if there's a better alternative, I want to know it. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I absolutely hate Amarok, it's the seed of the devil for me, UI wise. It has vertically labeled text tabs for crying out loud! Any application who has those ought to be removed from the internet by law.

Oh, woe is you! Vertical tabs are not particularly great and shouldn't be used per se, but they're not particularly unusable either. You have icons there as well, so you're not completely relying on text. I don't read the text in the tabs at all, but I found out what they did pretty quickly. Personally, I think there are bigger problems out there, such as Kontact's insistence on using nothing but horizontal arrow key keyboard navigation in a vertical listbox, or Gnome's ridiculous insistence on drinking the instant-apply anti-freeze and giving me no way of reversing what I've done in a dialogue other than me remembering where things were. Duhhhh, that's why I use computers.

They need to organise what they present better, but it's not the end of the world as some people desperately want to make out that it is - for reasons that are best known to them ;-).

Seriously. It's great you like Amarok, but please don't make sweeping generalisations about it being the best there is - because it isn't.

That's great for you, but the facts are that people can sort their music and their playlists well in Amarok, they're able to get lyrics and use other services, they're able to get artist information, see tracks by the same artist in their collection, do album art.......

People can do all that, and it all actually works more often than not without a .Net traceback in sight! What do I want then? Have something without vertical text in tabs, or have something that works most of the time? Hmmmmm, it's a tricky one........

Give us a laugh and tell us what media player you think is the best.

Reply Parent Score: 1

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Oh boy, not this again. I think I'll stay out of this one.

Reply Parent Score: 2