Linked by David Adams on Fri 12th Sep 2008 16:34 UTC, submitted by irbis
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth announced Wednesday that his company, Canonical, will hire professional designers and interaction experts to improve the usability of the Linux desktop software ecosystem. They will work closely with upstream developers to bring a better experience to users of the open source operating system.
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RE[2]: Great move, but ..
by Manuma on Fri 12th Sep 2008 18:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Great move, but .."
Manuma
Member since:
2005-07-28

there actually was a de facto standard for this before GNOME pulled a switch-a-roo for no measurable benefit other than to create a new area of inconsistency.

Im sorry but you are wrong, there weren0t even a standar when GNOME implemented it, they just followed the Mac OS style, KDE followed thw Windows style.

BTW? What the hell is the KDE code of conduct for?

You are still trolling with or w/o code.

I was so righ when I predicted you will be the first one to break it.

Reply Parent Score: -6

RE[3]: Great move, but ..
by segedunum on Fri 12th Sep 2008 20:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Great move, but .."
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Im sorry but you are wrong, there weren0t even a standar when GNOME implemented it, they just followed the Mac OS style, KDE followed thw Windows style.

Yes there was. There were Unix and even Linux desktops before KDE and Gnome came along, what with CDE, Motif applications and guidelines et al, and the accepted standard was left-to-right as it was on Windows. Many of those applications still exist and many people run them still under Linux systems. You see, some of us actually remember this stuff?

Now, what then happened was that some Gnome developers came along, looked at the Mac and said "Goodness, that's what we want to be. I'm moist!" and so the right-to-left button ordering was implemented with no regard for previous Unix desktop history or even with any evidence whatsoever that the change improves usability. There is still no such evidence. It was simply pulled out of the Mac's UI guidelines, shoved into Gnome's UI guidelines and implicitly accepted as fact. The Mac approach isn't better, nor is it wrong. It's just different, and that's what fails to sink in still. That's before you even bring locales into it..........

It's nice to see that Mark Shuttleworth is continuing in that fine tradition of Mac worship, and neatly painting over the really critical things such as attracting developers to Ubuntu, creating a software development target that developers will want to go for and allowing Ubuntu users to install software in a sane manner. But, whatever.

You are still trolling with or w/o code.

You think that was trolling? Bugger. Mind you, there are some people around here who either can't accept the truth, or worse, they think the Linux world and its Unix heritage started when Mark Shuttleworth started throwing CDs at people.

Edited 2008-09-12 20:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: Great move, but ..
by cmost on Fri 12th Sep 2008 20:44 in reply to "RE[3]: Great move, but .."
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

I couldn't agree with your statements more. And, speaking of Apple worship... There seems to be an awful lot of Ubuntu worship in the FOSS community these days too.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Great move, but ..
by google_ninja on Fri 12th Sep 2008 20:45 in reply to "RE[3]: Great move, but .."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

There is still no such evidence. It was simply pulled out of the Mac's UI guidelines, shoved into Gnome's UI guidelines and implicitly accepted as fact. The Mac approach isn't better, nor is it wrong. It's just different, and that's what fails to sink in still. That's before you even bring locales into it....


There was evidence, but it is just hearsay. Apple spent a buttload of manpower and money in usability testing back when they started growing in a massive way. Some of the tests involved the ok cancel thing.

The apple way is that input dialogs shouldn't be using generic words like OK and Cancel. They should be using verbs describing the action about to be performed (Save / Don't Save). This works against people developing patterns of clicking OK as soon as they see it, and fits in well with the public domain usability knowledge we have so far. The reason that Save is always in the right hand corner is for consistancies sake, if you use a system designed the mac way you know that the default choice will always be in the same place, no matter what the words say or how many options you have.

By contrast, there has been zero research done anywhere on OK / Cancel. The reason that it was chosen was because that is how one would say it in english. The reason that most dialogs are Ok or Cancel is because those are the default choices.

Even though the apple research was proprietary, the reasoning behind it makes alot of sense.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Great move, but ..
by unoengborg on Sat 13th Sep 2008 13:42 in reply to "RE[3]: Great move, but .."
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, dialogues should not be constructed in a way that button ordering is a problem.

Dialogues like:

Do you want to continue doing X?
(OK) (quit) (cancel)

Should instead look like:

Process X is still running, Do you wan't to:
(Quit X) (Continue X)

The most probable choice should be the default action, unless that action somehow could cause irepairable damage.

I think this was the idea behind the change in Gnome.
If you just have OK and cancel buttons, people tend to press OK without giving a thought to what they actually say is OK.

Reply Parent Score: 6