Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 28th Jul 2009 19:10 UTC
Internet & Networking We've been talking about the browser ballot screen for a while now, which led to some obvious questions we couldn't answer. As it turns out (and I completely missed this), Microsoft actually posted a fairly detailed description of its proposal [.doc] on its website last Friday. It details everything from what it means not to have Internet Explorer installed to what the ballot screen will look like.
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RE: Ballot for everything
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:03 UTC in reply to "Ballot for everything"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

It will be interesting to see what happens later down the road... will other types of program be subject to this sort of balloting process? Music player? Instant messaging application? Office suite?

Installers like Anaconda already ask, but their system for selecting stuff has a lot of, well, helper programs rather than full-featured applications on it too. And there are lots of choices.


Can you think of anything shipped with Windows that actually has a monopoly position that harmed the market?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by poundsmack on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:14 in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

Actually Thom, when it was just IE and Netcape having IE in there did basically kill off Netscape. Also when MS used to bundle Office on computers at most retail stores that pretty much killed word perfect. They started doing things things right when their competitors could have grabbed a real foot hold in the market.

Of course now it's totally different, and both the 2 products I mentioned had companies that worked with the OEM's for inclusion with windows as the defaults (Music match Jukebox also comes ot mind).

But, in this current market, a media player and a web brsowers are common place. To not have them is a disservice to the customer, and I do not sympathise with any company that isn't willing to play the game to get their product included on a system they themselves didn't create. This is not the late 90's, stop treating MS like it is. They did anti competitive things then, now they are doing the same as every other OS provider out there. The issue should have been dismissed in court with prejudice...

Edited 2009-07-28 20:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

The thing that most people seem to forget when they bring up the netscape thing, is by the end, netscape *really* sucked. It was a thorn in the side of web developers the same way IE6 is now, where special time always had to be alotted to working through its "quirks".

I always wonder if Netscape had won the browser wars, if we would all be using their proprietary LAYER extensions rather then the CSS standards that ms adopted in IE.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:22 in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

How about Windows Media Player?

WMA... WMV... other proprietary formats which are all over the Internet, and can only "legally" be played back on an OS Microsoft says you can (Windows, Windows, Windows, maybe Novell's Linux, and Mac...). And because Windows has a monopoly...a disgusting number of sites uses them.

The Apple side is really no better though, with QuickTime...

They might not be monopoly-level, but I think they've caused some damage when it comes to cross-platform media playback.

Edited 2009-07-28 20:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by KugelKurt on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:49 in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

The Apple side is really no better though, with QuickTime...

Last time I checked, Apple fully pushes MPEG-4 with QuickTime, not VP7 or other proprietary codecs.

Reply Parent Score: 2

I think you're wrong here.
by MollyC on Wed 29th Jul 2009 01:24 in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

First, WMV isn't "proprietary", as VC-1 was standardized a few years ago as an STMPE standard. WMV today refers to Microsoft's implementation of that standard. WMV files can be played on any platform.

WMA, I don't think has been standardized, but it too can be played on any platform.

Neither format has a monopoly. WMA isn't used at all except for Zune (and PlayForSure) DRM'ed music (and some DVD players can play WMA CDs). WMV, I think, still rules the commercial downloaded videos space, but MPEG4 is catching up, DivX dominates the non-commercial downloaded video space (and is the preferred format for pirated DVD video), and Flash long ago took over the embedded video space.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Ballot for everything
by DigitalAxis on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:27 in reply to "RE: Ballot for everything"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Well, Microsoft Word; they basically have a lock on everything business related.

I was actually considering the implications of installing a system where you selected components via this ballot system, as opposed to the normal approach. Anaconda, as I mentioned, does have something like it, but if memory serves you can drill down a lot farther into it than just major applications. (Bluetooth libraries, etc.)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Ballot for everything
by poundsmack on Tue 28th Jul 2009 20:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Ballot for everything"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

yes the Anaconda installer has been able to do that since (at least) readhat linux 8.0 (ah the blue curve theme, good times).

Reply Parent Score: 2

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

You mean like you could with Windows 95 / NT 4 and Windows 98(SE) ?

Once upon a time Microsoft actually gave the user the option to decide what to install and not install; heck, even the browser was completely optional ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2