Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 15th Aug 2009 17:55 UTC
X11, Window Managers Over the past couple of months, and especially over the past couple of weeks, I've been working very hard to write and complete my thesis. I performed all the work on Windows 7, but now that the thesis is finally done, submitted, and accepted, I installed Ubuntu - and immediately I was reminded of why I do not do any serious work on Linux: the train wreck that is X.org.
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Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Your point is flawed.

It is not relevant whether or not the driver code was proprietary. As has been said a million times already, this article is NOT about the bug. It's about the results of the bug.

A modern and robust graphics stack can handle a driver crash; Vista and 7 can. They gracefully recover from a driver crash without applications crashing and without data loss. THAT is robust.

Compare this to X: driver crashes, X.org crashes, applications crash, data lost. This is NOT robust.

The fact that the driver code is proprietary (which it indeed was) is not relevant in this story in ANY way. X drivers should be contained properly, so that any bugs in there do NOT affect users' data.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Johnny Member since:
2009-08-15

Fair enough Thom,
But I want to emphasize this part of your response:

"The fact that the driver code is proprietary (which it indeed was) is not relevant in this story in ANY way. X drivers should be contained properly, so that any bugs in there do NOT affect users' data.".

The proprietary drivers that I know of, Nvidia and ATI, come in 2 parts: kernel space and user space. What if the bug is in the kernel space? Do you still think it's reasonable for X which runs in user space to somehow catch a kernel space bug and recover from it gracefully? I just don't see how that's reasonable.

You say Windows 7 somehow manages to catch bugs in their graphic drivers and recover gracefully. Well, kudos to the Windows 7 developers for a job well done.

What I would like to know, and maybe you or maybe a guest could do, is write an editorial explaining the architecture used in Windows 7 that does that kind of fault isolation. I'm very confident that Xorg developers would be interested in knowing how that is done so they could implement it as well.

Reply Parent Score: 1

adamk Member since:
2005-07-08

I have lost so much data with Vista crashes, I find your posts on the matter laughable.

I'm writing this on my FreeBSD laptop since my Vista workstation told me it needed to run a chkdsk on my C drive. It's been running for over 30 minutes now and throwing "Recovering orphaned file" messages left and right.

Even in those few times that I have had X crash (and I can't remember the last time it happened) I never actually lost data and had filesystem corruption.

Adam

Edited 2009-08-16 20:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Compare this to X: driver crashes, X.org crashes, applications crash, data lost.


I think the interesting point is that your applications crashed.
AFAIK most X client implementations make the application exit, so maybe the application crashes were actually bugs in the exit handler and the application developers would appreciate the backtraces that got dumped.

Reply Parent Score: 3