Linked by Ian MacGregor on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 20:40 UTC
Window Managers Window Maker is an X11 window manager originally designed to provide integration support for the GNUstep Desktop Environment. In every way possible, it reproduces the elegant look and feel of the NEXTSTEP user interface. It is fast, feature rich, easy to configure, and easy to use. It is also free software, with contributions being made by programmers from around the world.
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RE: Not even close to NeXT
by Diablo on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 21:25 UTC in reply to "Not even close to NeXT"
Diablo
Member since:
2005-07-06

Why it is not close to the real thing? Could you explain? I'm not trolling, I'm just curious because I don't know the real thing ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Not even close to NeXT
by mlankton on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 21:46 in reply to "RE: Not even close to NeXT"
mlankton Member since:
2009-06-11

For starters NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP were operating systems. Extremely well integrated and cohesive systems. The system was so far ahead of everything else at the time in terms of user experience that about all I can do is tell you to somehow get an os disc and play with it in a virtual machine and imagine that it's 1993 or 1994 or 1995 or 1996, and remember what the other desktops of the time offered.

The reason we former users love this system so much has a great deal to do with the user experience, which thankfully OS X lets us hang on to a sliver of. OS X isn't very NeXT-like from the desktop, but as a former user I get enough sense of its heritage using it that it is better than if NeXT had just disappeared altogether. Don't get me wrong, in many ways OS X exceeds NeXT, and I'm a very content OS X user.

WM is a nice little window manager. It's responsive. It looks reasonably NeXT-ish. But it's still an X window manager, and all it really does is put NeXT-ish lipstick on that pig.

The NeXT Workspace introduced the three column view file browser, and it included a shelf. Display Postscript offered desktop graphics that looked like a million bucks compared to any other windowing system of the time. Like OS X, every app had its own menu. It also had tear-off and sticky sub menus. NeXT had services, which allowed every app to use relevant functionality from your other installed apps.

Look, I am biased. I LOVED this system, and still do. The only reason that NeXT isn't as emulated as the Amiga is that there just weren't that many people who got to use a NeXT Cube or slab. The cube was a $10k micro computer and most people could afford an Amiga. I wish Apple would just go ahead and make the old system public domain so people could legally play with it. Until then, GNUStep is the project that may eventually produce a system that is pretty damn close.

There are some cool NeXT videos on YouTube with Steve Jobs promoting the system and what it can do. Good viewing. Also, Steve Jobs And The NeXT Big Thing is a good read.

So I don't hate Window Maker, it's just not the same as the real thing.

Edited 2009-12-03 21:48 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[3]: Not even close to NeXT
by itomato on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 22:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Not even close to NeXT"
itomato Member since:
2006-05-18

It's not the same. Not even with what GNUstep brings to the party.

But it's close. It's as close as it can be without common code heritage. As close as it can be using X, rather than DPS.

It's missing critical pieces that would bring it closer to mimicking NS/OS - Workspace.app, Services, Inspectors, etc.. These pieces come with GNUstep, and could use the attention of a passionate group of individuals. Remember; WINGs.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Not even close to NeXT
by tyrione on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 22:12 in reply to "RE: Not even close to NeXT"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Why it is not close to the real thing? Could you explain? I'm not trolling, I'm just curious because I don't know the real thing ;)


Behavior is way off. The Preferences.app is garbage compared to NeXT Preferences.app. NeXT Services don't exist. NeXTMail.app stomps all over GNUMail.app. On and on and on. Pasteboard services are weak. Non-Display Postscript, etc.

The shortcuts actions aren't remotely the same. No system-wide Dictionary/Thesaurus, Developer Tools are weak at best, APIs are a small subset, etc.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Not even close to NeXT
by Darkmage on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 23:33 in reply to "RE: Not even close to NeXT"
Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

because it hasn't got even half of the power that the objective-C apis provided to NEXT. Without those all you have is a half assed shell incapable of even the most basic of tasks the NEXT OS was caable of. Next was all about the API. Oh and Mac OSX is not an evolution of Next. Evolution normally implies useful additions/changes. From talking with the GNUStep guys. It sounds like Apple REMOVED functionality from the API to lock people into the mac way of doing things. It's like saying that an apple genetically modified into being an orange is now somehow an apple version 2.0. It's not It's now an orange and no longer an apple or evolution of an apple.

Edited 2009-12-03 23:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0