Linked by Kroc Camen on Thu 25th Feb 2010 10:18 UTC
Humor BBC News reports "Mark your diaries for 4 March because in Denver the funeral arrangements are well underway for the planned passing that day of Internet Explorer 6". There's a phobia of being buried alive but I think in this case, it's the living that are all too quick to be shoveling the dirt over as IE6 doesn't officially die until 2014 when Microsoft pull the life-support.
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I like IE6, really
by Luke8844 on Thu 25th Feb 2010 19:49 UTC
Luke8844
Member since:
2010-02-25

What a sad day that everyone yearns for loss of diversity of web clients, although I'm not suprised at this reaction on OSNews. I thought the great thing about the web was that we don't all have to think or be the same.

I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames, but I like and still use IE6. Its UI is non-pretentious and fits in perfectly on XP, it loads fast and doesn't get in my way. Admittedly I have a content proxy between me and the web so I don't have to deal with too much flash. It's still supported by Microsoft and they are still issue security patches for it. OK maybe they shouldn't have been there in the first place, but mature software has a lot to be said for it. IE6 is reliable and good enough for 95% of the web.

Yes - I tried IE7/IE8 (visual urgh on XP), Firefox (slow to load), Chrome (why did you reinvent the window?) Opera (kitchen sink UI (TM)) and Safari on windows (cannot stomach Apple policy, and again non-standard UI on XP). I keep going back to IE6 for day to day use, but I keep Firefox for when a website has been badly designed to force me to use something more recent.

Whatever happened to "This site works with any browser"? Would we be happy to celebrate the day the web stops supporting text mode browsers? In my old-fart view, the web is about content and hypertext not flashy shiny bling.

Will anyone else own up to using IE6 or feeling sad that everyone is dancing on its grave?

I await the flames.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I like IE6, really
by Kroc on Thu 25th Feb 2010 20:13 in reply to "I like IE6, really"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

IE6’s UI is what made it win over Netscape. IE6 was a breath of fresh air compared to Netscape. It wasn’t until Firefox was released that anything came along that was closely simple enough for IE6 users to want to adopt.

IE6’s toolbar is a good thing. What is wrong with IE6 is everything else. It’s slow, insecure and is a nightmare to code for. If IE6 had a decent rendering engine, then I would not find complaint with its UI. That is why ChromeFrame is a good thing.

Engine-wise; there’s still IE7/8, and IE8 is not too shabby and I really do hold out hope that IE9 will be a much needed return to a competitive IE.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by malxau on Thu 25th Feb 2010 20:51 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
malxau Member since:
2005-12-04

What about "works with any browser"?

Like the original poster, I can't help but be bemused - an enthusiast site promoting operating systems diversity has become intolerant of browser diversity (at a time when to many, the browser is becoming the operating system.)

In any diverse ecosystem there will be "better" and "worse" participants (whatever that means.) The real issue here is not IE or IE6, but whether people believe that the web should be a platform that is open to anyone, or whether the web should be reserved for people doing the "right thing" (whatever that means.)

On a more technical note, HTML was designed to intelligently degrade when a feature is not present on the renderer. CSS2 really broke that, because if a style is partially supported the result may no longer be legible or correct. This, IMO, is what makes IE6 hard to support. The problem is not (entirely) with IE; the problem is that current web standards demand 100% conformance to have a useful implementation. This is not very open-web-like, and results in very rapid obsoleteness. It certainly discourages the web from being used in expensive hardware (car, fridge, whatever) because doing so demands unsustainably frequent replacement.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by cerbie on Thu 25th Feb 2010 23:41 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

Er, what about the random javascript error dialogs for CSS settings? Or that even when used with javascript properly, you could often get many dialogs in a row on a page load, or with an event on a dynamic page.

What about the crashing? That's never good, and it seemed to get more common with each hundredth added on to 4's release version number.

Personally, I preferred the Netscape UI. Even so, IE won that round somewhat fairly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I like IE6, really
by Delgarde on Thu 25th Feb 2010 20:25 in reply to "I like IE6, really"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

Would we be happy to celebrate the day the web stops supporting text mode browsers? In my old-fart view, the web is about content and hypertext not flashy shiny bling.


You're right - content is important. And good luck watching YouTube videos or looking at photos on Picasa or Flickr in your text-mode browser. Times change, there's more to the web than text these days.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by Luke8844 on Thu 25th Feb 2010 20:36 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
Luke8844 Member since:
2010-02-25

"Would we be happy to celebrate the day the web stops supporting text mode browsers? In my old-fart view, the web is about content and hypertext not flashy shiny bling.


You're right - content is important. And good luck watching YouTube videos or looking at photos on Picasa or Flickr in your text-mode browser. Times change, there's more to the web than text these days.
"

FLickr works OK - IE6 is fine with JPGs. Point taken about flash video, but Flash is a resource hog and overused anyway.

I'm not visually impaired, but we need to make sure our websites are accessible to those that are. Graceful degradation is the way forward, and it generally works.

Reports of IE6 demise are greatly exagerated ;-)

Edit: Picassa is fine too.

Edited 2010-02-25 20:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: I like IE6, really
by google_ninja on Thu 25th Feb 2010 21:32 in reply to "I like IE6, really"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

but I keep Firefox for when a website has been badly designed to force me to use something more recent.


That is actually the problem -- to get a website to display correctly in other browsers, you have to do it right. To get it to display in IE, you need to do it wrong. But it can't be wrong for everything, so that means you have to write scripts and css that will manipulate the site to become wrong, but isolate those hacks in specific ways that are actually invalid (so that other browsers just ignore them), but in ways that IE interprets fine.

Whatever happened to "This site works with any browser"? Would we be happy to celebrate the day the web stops supporting text mode browsers? In my old-fart view, the web is about content and hypertext not flashy shiny bling.


The people celebrating are us web developers, for the reasons I outlined above. Being able to say "This site works in any browser" gets WAY easier and cleaner when that phrase does not include IE6.

Edited 2010-02-25 21:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by Luke8844 on Thu 25th Feb 2010 22:12 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
Luke8844 Member since:
2010-02-25

The people celebrating are us web developers, for the reasons I outlined above.


It depends where you consider web development to reside - in the client, on the server or in the integration of your server onto a heterogeneous network containing a wide diversity of systems. Actually I consider myself a web developer too.

Being able to say "This site works in any browser" gets WAY easier and cleaner when that phrase does not include IE6.


That is truly ironic.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: I like IE6, really
by emilsedgh on Thu 25th Feb 2010 22:17 in reply to "I like IE6, really"
emilsedgh Member since:
2007-06-21

IE6 is reliable and good enough for 95% of the web.


Dude, dont you get it? That 95% of the web supports IE because it has to. If IE goes away, that 95% of web will be able to use much better technologies and the whole web experience will be improved.

Edited 2010-02-25 22:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by google_ninja on Thu 25th Feb 2010 22:36 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

This is my philosophy when it comes to browser support

If it is a personal project I am doing for fun, I have no problems using things that only webkit supports.

If it is a personal project I intend for greater consumption, I'll add in anything firefox supports.

If it is for a client, I will add in IE7 and Opera, and will make sure the site is usable in IE6, but will not fix rendering errors.

If the client requires IE6 support, I usually explain why that is a pain. If it is still required, I tend to double any estimate to give myself breathing room, and will point out again that they will probably be paying more.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I like IE6, really
by deathshadow on Fri 26th Feb 2010 03:54 in reply to "RE: I like IE6, really"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

If IE goes away, that 95% of web will be able to use much better technologies and the whole web experience will be improved.

Things that 99% of internet users don't know enough about and don't care enough about to give a rats ass about.

Since the only web experience that will be better is that of lazy developers who can't seem to spend the extra time to learn to use any of their technologies properly.

Hell, ever notice half the 'tards bitching about IE still use tables for layout, spacer GIF's, clearing div's or even worse that stupid 'clearfix' nonsense, don't use valid markup making their HTML complete gibberish, don't use headings in a proper order if at all, have never heard of TH, CAPTION, LEGEND, FIELDSET - hell most of the time you are lucky if they use LABEL... Code to content ratios in excess of 10:1, don't practice semantic markup or separation of presentation from content, and have never even HEARD of things like graceful degradation?

Oh wait, that's probably all stuff that non-developers could give a rats ass about too! It's just sad when most developers cannot even bother to understand those, yet have the unmitigated gall to badmouth one browser version.

Admittedly, IE6 is a pain in the ass - but supporting it isn't THAT hard.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I like IE6, really
by HappyGod on Fri 26th Feb 2010 08:31 in reply to "I like IE6, really"
HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

I am developing a corporate website at the moment, and I just want to cry when I read posts like this.

I like all other web devs hate IE6 (and all other IE versions for that matter) so much that I'm waiting for a game where I can inflict some kind of torture towards it.

I personally hope it dies a slow, painful death.

If you want to use it, go ahead. So long as I don't have to support it. Ever.

Reply Parent Score: 2