Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 22:53 UTC
Games Yesterday Phoronix showed proof of Steam's Linux client existence via its Mac OS X launcher that is currently in closed beta, then this morning they showed further signs of Linux support. Since 2008 it was known that Steam and the Source Engine would come to Linux. As an update, they even pointed out the download link for the Steam Linux binary from their store.
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Really?
by Almafeta on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 23:54 UTC
Almafeta
Member since:
2007-02-22

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.

Reply Score: -3

RE: Really?
by TechGeek on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:24 in reply to "Really?"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

Well, more than .1% of computers run Linux. Many Linux users pay for other software. Many Windows users only use Windows because of the games. If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Really?
by Bending Unit on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 05:24 in reply to "RE: Really?"
Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?

Windows 7.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Really?
by nt_jerkface on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 18:54 in reply to "RE: Really?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Well, more than .1% of computers run Linux. Many Linux users pay for other software. Many Windows users only use Windows because of the games. If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?


Have you ever seen the game collection direct2drive has for the Mac? It has some great games but it isn't nearly as large as the library available for Windows, especially for new games. Given that Mac has at least 8x the marketshare of Linux there will be even less incentive for companies to port. At most it will be like the Mac where you have a lot of high selling casual games like The Sims being ported while missing some of the best pc games from recent years like Stalker.

If you want an alternative to Windows gaming then you should get a console. It's not as if Windows gaming is exactly healthy these days with so many games going straight to consoles.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Really?
by ciplogic on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:44 in reply to "Really?"
ciplogic Member since:
2006-12-22

The big point is that if Steam is here, it will be a big player if not the single one on Linux. Is Linux 0.1%? Judging from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDc9I3z7ab4 (estimated 30 million users) may mean that it worth to jump here.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Really?
by orestes on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:58 in reply to "Really?"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not so sure I agree on those last two points. This isn't the mid 90's server room anymore.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Really?
by mtzmtulivu on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:35 in reply to "Really?"
mtzmtulivu Member since:
2006-11-14

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.

There is a big difference btw mind share and market share. Besides, code written "properly" can easily be ported to different systems.

This is a good PR move for them.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:54 in reply to "Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

I don't quite think your "0.1%" estimate is correct. If I had to say where you got it I'd guess an area called rectum.

As for not buying software..how do you know? Not every Linux user is a maniacal zealot, most of us are just normal users who buy their distros and whatever other software they might need, including games. I could just as well claim that Windows users don't buy software, they prefer to get unauthorized copies but then again I'd be talking out of my own rear-end.

And for the third thing: I have never heard or seen any Linux user call video games childish. Of course there are those too in every camp, but seeing as I have yet to see even one such comment over all the years of my own usage I doubt it's "generally."

EDIT: Thought to add that I too will most likely get Steam for Linux and start buying games there if any good ones come up and available for Linux. I find this a VERY positive move by Valve and I loved Half-Life 1. Never played part 2, but damn, I'll be among the first to buy it for Linux once it's there! :]

Edited 2010-04-23 01:58 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE: Really?
by Quake on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:56 in reply to "Really?"
Quake Member since:
2005-10-14

And your point is? the more platform they support, the more marketshare they'll have thus... money.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Really?
by darknexus on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:00 in reply to "Really?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market

Evidence? Judging Linux's install figures is basically impossible since there are no market figures to go by. I think, in a way, they're counting on that.

(b) is not known for buying software

Perhaps that's because there's not much software to buy for most users? Most of the commercial software for Linux is oriented at the enterprise, and of course most home users will opt for a free solution when presented. Don't confuse the hard core FSF fanatics with the Linux community at large, though I admit they do seem to be the most vocal so it's understandable when this happens. Most of us will gladly buy software if it helps either our productivity or enjoyment, and have no qualms about doing so. There is room for both free and proprietary software in the world, despite what some would have us believe.

and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

That's a new one. I've not seen many, except for some of the FSF crowd (not sure what the corolation is there but there does seem to be one), say this. More commonly, the response is that you should get a console if you want to game which actually does make a lot of sense when you consider the quality of games for PC vs console most of the time. Still, I know a lot of Linux users who keep Windows around for this one reason, so this attitude isn't as widespread as you seem to believe. See above about vocal users vs quiet ones.

Well, best of luck to them.

With this I agree, though I suspect the feelings behind the words are quite different. I genuinely wish them the best of luck with this. I'm not a hard core gamer, but the more competition we have in the platform and application space (and that includes games for those who play them) the better off we all are in the end. If Steam for Linux is successful, it will be proof to other game companies that Linux is worth their effort.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: Really?
by diegoviola on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:23 in reply to "Really?"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


Really? Well, that's strange then, cause I'm a Linux user and I bought most of the id software games.

Edited 2010-04-23 02:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by gilboa on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 09:45 in reply to "RE: Really?"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

/+1.

In my case I bought:
Quake 3, Doom3, Quake 4 and ETQW.

For other vendors (LGP) I bought:
X2 and X3.

Not bad for someone that:
A. Doesn't buy software.
B. Think games are childish.

- Gilboa

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by ggeldenhuys on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:40 in reply to "RE: Really?"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

Yeah, I have to agree. I bought Sim City 3000 and Heroes of Might and Magic for Linux. Oh, I bought Nero for Linux and Borland Kylix Professional v3 too.

Oops, am I now in trouble because I bought some Linux software! Please dude (original poster), don't generalize like that.

As for the 0.1% Linux users. I think that is TOTAL CRAP. There is simply NO way to count the amount of Linux users out there, so the 0.1% is simply an uneducated guess - and a very bad one at that. Linux may be downloaded, copied, shared, installed on 1000's of PC's without payment, without notifying any vendor or OEM etc via some stupid activation key. You simply cannot count the "sales" of Linux like you can for Mac or Windows.

Edited 2010-04-23 12:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Really?
by n0xx on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:36 in reply to "Really?"
n0xx Member since:
2005-07-12

(a)
Care to show us some accurate figures?

(b)
Last time I checked, there was no Linux version of Adobe CS/MS Office/etc. It's hard to buy commercial software for Linux if there's no such thing. Well... at least not the software that most of us need/use.

(c.1)
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois/?tool_id=66&token=&toolhandler_...

Domain ID:D2238246-LROR
Domain Name:HAPPYPENGUIN.ORG
Created On:21-Oct-1998 04:00:00 UTC


(c.2)
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/linuxgames.com

Record created on 26-Mar-1998

(c.3)
From Wikipedia:

"In 1996, there was a port of Quake to Linux."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_%28video_game%29



As you can see, the Linux gaming community has been organized since 1998, at least, and it's been around for some time now.

I think i recall zophar.net hosting emulators for Linux since day one, back in 1996.

Quake, ID's famous fps was the, AFAIK, the first commercial game for Linux, back in 1996. Throughout the years, ID has consciously chosen to use OpenGL as their API of choice, specifically for portability reasons.

There would probably be a vibrant Linux gaming community now days if MS hadn't marketed DX as the next best thing since sliced bread. (and, truth be told, OpenGL was more mature and easy to handle).

So no, we don't think gaming is childish. Everybody likes to murder virtual prostitutes once in a while. ;)

Fun fact: I recently found that WoW has superior network performance (lower pings overall) while running on under Wine. True story.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 04:24 in reply to "RE: Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Fun fact: I recently found that WoW has superior network performance (lower pings overall) while running on under Wine. True story.

You're not the only one. I have about 65ms latency in WoW under Linux+Wine whereas under Windows it's at about 180ms. No idea why, I have applied all the common networking performance enhancing tips and all.

Unfortunately WoW is really crashy on my PC under Linux, probably due to ATi graphics :<

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Really?
by aaronb on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 17:32 in reply to "RE: Really?"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

I have also noticed the same on counter strike source and Nexuiz with regards to ping.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Really?
by toast88 on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 06:16 in reply to "Really?"
toast88 Member since:
2009-09-23

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

(a) I don't see where you get that from but the point simply is that unlike Windows and MacOS, Linux installations usually don't report back to some manufacturer so that they can be counted. Since Linux is and ever will be free, you can install it on dozens of machines without anyone ever knowing. So, please stop using that stupid market share argument. Further, *if* it was only 0.1%, why the heck do you think do companies like Intel, Oracle, IBM, Google, Microsoft (YES, even them), nVidia, AMD, Google, DELL, Samsung, Sony, (I'm getting tired here, it's way too many, just check the kernel commit log), pay people to work on an operating system which has only 0.1% share?!?! Nearly every freaking DSL router in the world runs Linux.

(b) Yeah, right. And the 15,000 Euros the physics department here pays for the Mathematica for Linux licences are just vapor ware. And, guess what, we also didn't pay the 5000 Euros for Matlab for Linux, too. Even though it might not fit in your current view of the world, Linux has way more significance than you'd ever imagine. Trust me, those guys who develop Steam certainly know way better than you and I'm very tranquillized, that most developers and companies don't listen to what "experts" like you claim what's worth developing software for and what's not.

(c) Yeah, true. You know what, I probably have seen, owned and played more exotic video games and consoles you've ever seen in your life.

To say it more shortly, (b) and (c) are just stupid prejudices and over-simplifications. You should get used to the fact that the world is not white and black but colorful. Ever heard of diversification?

Adrian

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Really?
by Karitku on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 07:06 in reply to "Really?"
Karitku Member since:
2006-01-12

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish? Well, best of luck to them.

Yes but they aren't bring all steam games so it's bit like saying Rolling Stones is coming to festival when only there drummer guy is coming. But I give them credit for nice advertising, think how hard and expensive it is to get ad on almost every tech news site.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 08:14 in reply to "RE: Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

so it's bit like saying Rolling Stones is coming to festival when only there drummer guy is coming

Not really... Even though not all of the games will be ported the ones being ported are fully playable and enjoyable, so you will still be able to fully enjoy a gaming experience on Linux.

As such, to use your music festival analogy it'd be like some of the available bands showing up, not all of them. You'd still get to enjoy the ones there perfectly fine.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Really?
by ricegf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:51 in reply to "Really?"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

"less than 0.1% of the market"

Even the most slavish of Microsoft cheerleaders (that would be NetApplications) doesn't claim such a ridiculously low figure.

Most analysts agree that Microsoft Windows holds about 91% of the desktop and laptop market, excluding netbooks. Microsoft projects that 5% of the market is held by Linux and 4% by Apple.[1]

Gartner agrees with the first but swaps those last two, giving Linux 4% and Apple 5%.[2] These numbers are supported by estimated user counts, as well.[3]

NetApplications uses web browsing habits to agree with Gartner on Windows and Mac share, but gives Linux just north of 1% (perhaps Linux users are busier hacking than browsing mindless websites?);[4] that this methodology is flawed for determining installed share is evident from a similar analysis for smartphones, which gives a *very* wrong answer for a market where shares are fairly well understood.[5]

So at best, you're only off by 1000%, at worst 5000%. Thanks for playing.

[1] http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_t...
[2] http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/08/14/linuxs-market-share-is-there-an...
[3] http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/7032/1/
[4] http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8
[5] http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/23/apple-and-android-now-make-up-75-p...

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Really?
by Soulbender on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:55 in reply to "Really?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

This is about Linux, not Mac's.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Really?
by mpxlbs on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:57 in reply to "Really?"
mpxlbs Member since:
2009-01-25

I'm a linux user and have been since 1999.
Currently I own 142 games on steam, on which most of them are big game titles.

I'm also a console collector and I love video games.
I also like to buy stuff, donate stuff/money to support software development and other things going on in this world.

Even though I love open source I understand that some has this as their full time job and that they need food on the table and this is the only way to get it.

I, for one, would ditch windows completely if Steam enters Linux.
Steam is the ONLY reason I'm still in windows.

With that said, your post is oh-so-wrong ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Really?
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:42 in reply to "RE: Really?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

+1 Steam is the only reason I use Windows

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Really?
by Laurence on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:16 in reply to "Really?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


a/ Linux isn't less than 1% of the market let alone less than 0.1% as you stated. Add to that, the fact that even 1% of hundreds of millions is still millions.

b/ yet perversely piracy ratios are significantly lower than on Windows. So who's to say that there isn't a market for commercial games after all?

c/ Seeming as we're making completely unfounded sweeping generalisations based on what OS people run, I heard Windows users are generally blue skinned and OS X users have 3 eyes.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Really?
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:25 in reply to "RE: Really?"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Piracy rates on Linux are lower because not only is there less to pirate, but someone who has installed linux is also typically willing to look for alternative applications to do what they need - and in most cases, there are free apps available.

I know a lot of windows users who are completely unwilling to try any alternatives to the established products, for instance i know people who use photoshop (usually pirated) for extremely trivial tasks like resizing or cropping photos.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Really?
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:41 in reply to "Really?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


Really? Out of all of my friends and acquaintances I, the Linux user, is the only one that has:
A) A valid Windows XP license (Other MS fanfoys use pirated versions of Windows)
B) Actually buy my games (others just download them)
C) Have to reduce the market share perception of gamers, by dual booting Windows (That frankly crashes too often for me)

Reply Parent Score: 5