Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 11th Feb 2011 11:35 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless A lot of people are wondering why Nokia didn't choose to go with Android. How can Nokia differentiate themselves when Android is a lot more open and free than Windows Phone 7? As usual, the key to this is in the details. If you read the announcements carefully, you'll see that Microsoft offered Nokia something Google most likely didn't. Update: What a surprise. Elop just confirmed Nokia has a special deal with Microsoft. Whereas HTC, Samsung, and so on are not allowed to customise WP7 - Nokia is, further confirming my theory.
Thread beginning with comment 462039
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: So
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 11th Feb 2011 14:41 UTC in reply to "So"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Qt has been up and coming and promising for years now. Nothing has materialised out of it. An absolutely great development environment, BUT NOBODY IS USING IT. I don't understand how this doesn't get into people's brains. Nokia was pouring money into a bottomless pit - a very beautiful pit with lovely decorations and stable foundations, but bottomless nonetheless.

Qt is one of the most hyped products in history, yet besides KDE, is there anyone serious even using it? IT has ZERO presence in the mobile world and it has ZERO presence in the desktop world (other than KDE, putting it at about 0.5% of the world's desktops). That's the cold and harsh truth.

.NET on the other hand...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: So
by Nelson on Fri 11th Feb 2011 14:47 in reply to "RE: So"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I don't disagree, but it was the best Linux had in terms of a development platform. I was just commenting on the genius of the move by Microsoft. It makes good business sense, beyond the obvious help it will give WP7.

As a .NET developer I wholeheartedly agree.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: So
by kragil on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:01 in reply to "RE: So"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

.net (as in C# and VB#) on the other hand has 8000 WP7 apps and a lot of enterprise shit. Then there is the über popular Silverlight.

Which great .net applications are so widely used?

Qt has stuff from Google, Adobe, Rovio, Skype etc, it may not be much but there more popular Qt apps than real .net apps.

Applications and games on Windows are still C++.

Edit: Oh, there also are the dozens of great Xbox live arcade and indie games.

Edited 2011-02-11 15:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: So
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:05 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

and a lot of enterprise shit


Bingo.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: So
by gedmurphy on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:13 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
gedmurphy Member since:
2005-12-23

Which great .net applications are so widely used?


Really?

.NET is probably the most popular framework in use right now. Additionally, C# is the 6th most popular programming language, of which includes php and python which aren't really suitable for application development.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So
by _txf_ on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:23 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

The only real proper .net wpf/silverlight style application that is in wide use is VS2010. This is primarily due to microsofts own incompetence in pushing wpf and silverlight (despite being excellent technically).

Silverlight is quite good for line of business apps that are thin frontends to web services good for many apps in WP7 but I have yet to see a decent beefy application using silverlight.

I also have yet to see a really good game using .net. Are there any speedy 3D engines in .net? Chances of Unreal Engine on WP7 == 0.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So
by Nelson on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:37 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

You really don't want to go there, lol. Are you forgetting about Unity3D which powers over 1,000 iPhone app store games with 250,000 registered users? XNA which has an XBox Live Indie Games install base of 1,500?

Hell, let's just see how many projects are powered by Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono

What about Visual Studio? Expression Blend? WebMatrix?
.NET has a pretty tight grip on the Line of Business enterprise sector as well.

Then there's the Windows Mobile 6 Compact Framework, the Miro Framework used in embedded programming.

The .NET install base is in the millions, with Visual Studio regularly achieving 4-5 million downloads. Most estimates peg the developer base at 6 million world wide.

What about Qt?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: So
by nt_jerkface on Fri 11th Feb 2011 18:07 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Which great .net applications are so widely used?


Paint.net, keepass, fasttask, cdburnerXP and some others. .NET is mostly used in enterprise but there are a lot more consumer applications in .NET than Java.

Qt has stuff from Google, Adobe, Rovio, Skype etc, it may not be much but there more popular Qt apps than real .net apps.


Those companies are also porting to multiple platforms. .NET is obviously limited when it comes to cross-platform development. There is Mono but there are plenty of cases where Qt would be a better choice. But Qt is not perfect and still has some issues with local integration which is why so many Qt applications are actually hybrids and not portable. Those issues will be worked out eventually though.

Applications and games on Windows are still C++.


MS still focuses game development around C++ and DX. There is also the legacy factor whereby programs like Photoshop would be very expensive to re-write in .NET. Game companies have millions of lines of C++ code that they do not want to re-write in anything.

Qt is quality software and I was disappointed when Google decided to use their weird non-standard Java instead of Qt.

But I don't think MeeGo had a chance at this point which is why I don't think developers lost out. MeeGo needed to come out before WP7.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: So
by Hiev on Fri 11th Feb 2011 15:55 in reply to "RE: So"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Qt is one of the most hyped products in history

Amen.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: So
by segedunum on Fri 11th Feb 2011 17:22 in reply to "RE: So"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Qt has been up and coming and promising for years now. Nothing has materialised out of it. An absolutely great development environment, BUT NOBODY IS USING IT. I don't understand how this doesn't get into people's brains.

What doesn't get into peoples' thick skulls is that Nokia was bloody useless at creating a development platform because they wanted to somehow protect Symbian. It wasn't that Qt was no good at all.

You don't solve having little in the way of a developer community and reacting to the competition by selling off your development platform to someone else.

.NET on the other hand...

Speaking of zero presence......and that's on a platform that Microsoft controls.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: So
by dsmogor on Fri 11th Feb 2011 18:45 in reply to "RE: So"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I beg to disagree. QT is quite successful on Windows for small companies that didn't want to go, .net or java.
For Desktop C++ development it started to shape up as a standard.

Edited 2011-02-11 18:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: So
by Hiev on Fri 11th Feb 2011 19:08 in reply to "RE[2]: So"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Qt have its queers in some platforms, is not perfect, and I bet in mobil it wasn't the wonder they tought.

"It work great on Windows", everyting works great in Windows, but how about the other platforms? the "Runs everywhere" also means "Debug everywhere".

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: So
by Nth_Man on Fri 11th Feb 2011 20:07 in reply to "RE: So"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

Qt has been up and coming and promising for years now. Nothing has materialised out of it. An absolutely great development environment, BUT NOBODY IS USING IT.

HOOOOW can you say this?

Qt is most notably used in Autodesk [7][8], Google Earth, KDE, Adobe Photoshop Album, the European Space Agency [9], OPIE, Skype, VLC media player [10], Samsung [11], Philips [12], Panasonic [13] and VirtualBox.

[7] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/autodesk/
[8] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/qt-in-visual-effects
[9] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/story/customer/esa-european-space-age...
[10] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/story/app/vlc-player/
[11] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/qt-in-home-media
[12] http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/qt-in-ip-communications
[13] http://qt.nokia.com/about/news/panasonic-selects-qt-for-hd-video-sy...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: So
by apoclypse on Fri 11th Feb 2011 23:33 in reply to "RE: So"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Qt has been up and coming and promising for years now. Nothing has materialised out of it. An absolutely great development environment, BUT NOBODY IS USING IT. I don't understand how this doesn't get into people's brains. Nokia was pouring money into a bottomless pit - a very beautiful pit with lovely decorations and stable foundations, but bottomless nonetheless.

Qt is one of the most hyped products in history, yet besides KDE, is there anyone serious even using it? IT has ZERO presence in the mobile world and it has ZERO presence in the desktop world (other than KDE, putting it at about 0.5% of the world's desktops). That's the cold and harsh truth.

.NET on the other hand...



This is bullshit. I can name plenty of apps on the Desktop that use Qt. Maya, Lightwave, Miri, VLC, Nuke. I have more but don't want to make this into a list of applications. Qt is slowly starting to be used heavily in the content industry application development, especially if the developers value cross platform capability and plan to include Linux.

.Net is more prevalent if your whole ecosystem revolves only around windows. However developers that value cross platform development will choose Qt.

How about you use Google Thom before making silly comments. I totally agree with you on the whole mobile part. Qt has no presence there other than Meego and with the failure of that platform, now it never will.

Edited 2011-02-11 23:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: So
by mr_pinsky on Mon 14th Feb 2011 16:00 in reply to "RE: So"
mr_pinsky Member since:
2010-09-06

Obviously, Thom has a different definition of ZERO and NOBODY than most of us.

------------

“400.000 developers”

“tens of thousands of companies in multiple industries actively using and contributing to Qt”

“Qt everywhere. Qt continues to make vast inroads into especially low end Linux devices and distro’s. Qt also continues to provide a platform for others to innovate and differentiate upon. For example Dreamworks switching all their internal animation tools to Qt and making cool movies like 'MegaMind' and 'How to Train Your Dragon'”

- Daniel Kihlberg, Director Qt Ecosystem
http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/12/nokia-new-strategic-direction-w...

Reply Parent Score: 1