Clean up Your Web Aplications with SOAP and AJAX
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2005-10-16 3:28 amedwdig
but it shocks me people still push JSP which in the evolution of web programming is still dragging it’s knuckles next to ASP or coldfusion, the mixing of content and presentation is the exercise in stupidity
Wait… within the same sentence you’re promoting ColdFusion and then saying mixing content and presentation is bad?
ColdFusion is designed around mixing content and presentation. Ever hear a talk from Macromedia people? If someone asks them about adding features that would enhance the actual ColdFusion language, they fight it. They try very hard to avoid adding advanced features. You want integration with other Macromedia products? Sure. But, say, better OO ? Not if they can help it. Remember, they thought it was a good idea to release the first OO version of ColdFusion without the ability to call the superclass when you override a method.
2005-10-17 12:21 amSphinx
Maybe if I scream louder you’ll get it: MIXING CONTENT AND PRESENTATION IS WRONG. Coldfusion is crap no better than jsp/asp and you must be a real cheerleader to read that into it. I said it’s un-evolved knuckle dragging throw away code and a waste of time writing it.
2005-10-18 10:38 amKick The Donkey
Not everybody, need every app to be a masterpieace of web programming. Sometimes, you just need a couple of quick forms, and a hook up to the database.
While you where still busy digging out your Java classes, and figuring out which new classes you were going to have to build to inherit from those classes, I’d have a perfectly functional PHP app up and running.
Who cares how pretty the code is? It works!!!! And for 50% of the apps that are out there, THAT is more important.
SOAP is allmost universally accepted (by the real wizards that is) as a “BadThing(TM)” the preffered way is to design your system withs a proper ReST architecture and use HTTP as it was intended.
Just do a Google on soap vs. rest
2005-10-15 6:56 pmAnonymous
I agree. Oh wait! <trollmode>I agree.</trollmode>
There, that’s better.
Ajax written by somebody who doesn’t understand how to make a wel designed app is still crap Ajax.
Just because Google made a good Ajax implementation, doesn’t mean ad servers, rover scripts and every n00b and his dog will.
Ajax stuff needs to be done with care or it can really make your code look terrible. However, there are some nice libraries, like xajax, that make it very usable (in this case from PHP).
A real nice RIA Engine built on AJAX technology is the Backbase Presentation Client.
Check it out, there are some real nice demo’s too: http://www.backbase.com
2005-10-17 2:18 pmSphinx
Thanks, backbase looks like very exciting stuff.
1. AJAX has what relation to JSP/ASP/PHP/Coldfusion etc. It is a client side technology the other are serverside
2. JSP was the FIRST to promote seperate content and presentation using MVC etc.
3. JSP was the first to allow code behind (with servlets etc.) and an OOP model. Before ASP.NET (which is heavily based around the JSP model) everyone critisied JSP as being to hard and systems/oop based and web development should be more script based (ala old ASP).
4. Coldfusion is basically a custom tag library built ontop of JSP so what’s the point about Coldfusion being more advanced than JSP?
Sorry Kick The Donkey, I wasn’t arguing one technology was better than another (if I’m doing enterprise systems I certainly would lean towards JSP/.NET), but then for a quick blogging site I probably would.
What I was taking issue with was Sphinx’s rather confused and factually incorrect argument that JSP was behind because it didn’t seperate content and presentation. In fact, to further that no server side technology does that – the seperation of content and presentation is the job of CSS.
And the funny thing is we have the two things people like to rant about to thank, MS and XML.
but it shocks me people still push JSP which in the evolution of web programming is still dragging it’s knuckles next to ASP or coldfusion, the mixing of content and presentation is the exercise in stupidity of writing and re-writing code to just be thrown out later. This should be done with servlets and XSLT.