Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Dec 2011 11:27 UTC
Legal I'm guessing Apple is getting desperate, since its software patent lawsuits aren't doing particularly well. Moving on from software and design patents, the company is now suing Samsung over... Patents for mobile phone and tablet cases (more at The Verge). I think Apple has more offensive lawsuits than products now, so technically, "patent maker" is more accurate than "gadget maker" or "device maker". Fun times.
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RE[10]: two sides of the coin
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 21st Dec 2011 16:05 UTC in reply to "RE[9]: two sides of the coin"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

"Apple has not invented anything in its entire existence. Everything they do comes from others. Not a single original technology or idea originated within Cupertino's walls.


There goes your entire credibility out the window. You spend all day raving about apple fanboys, and then show you can't even hold a logical thought in your head about the company.

Yeah sure Thom, Apple has never invented anything.
"

I challenge you to prove me wrong. Name something Apple invented. A few comments up I asked three new features the iPhone introduced, but it's silence there, so I'm making it easier for you: name one thing Apple has invented. Just one.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[11]: two sides of the coin
by lustyd on Wed 21st Dec 2011 16:09 in reply to "RE[10]: two sides of the coin"
lustyd Member since:
2008-06-19

I'm making it easier for you: name one thing Apple has invented. Just one.

A Successful tablet?
A Successful genre defining MP3 player?
A Successful MP3 shop?

Reply Parent Score: 0

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"I'm making it easier for you: name one thing Apple has invented. Just one.

A Successful tablet?
A Successful genre defining MP3 player?
A Successful MP3 shop?
"

None of those is an answer to my question.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[12]: two sides of the coin
by tupp on Wed 21st Dec 2011 18:35 in reply to "RE[11]: two sides of the coin"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

I'm making it easier for you: name one thing Apple has invented. Just one.
A Successful tablet?
A Successful genre defining MP3 player?
A Successful MP3 shop?

Wow. The power of the RDF is amazing, and it certainly is entertaining how the fanboys can continually add on dubious and subjective conditions in an attempt to make correct a previous, broader assertion.

Here's how it works in the real world:
1. Whether or not an item is "successful" has nothing to do with whether or not that item is inventive/innovative. Objectively, business success is just sales/profit figures (which, additionally, is a matter of degree). Sprint is a very successful mobile phone carrier, but Sprint did not invent the cell phone, nor any aspect of a cell phone.

2. Likewise, whether or not an item is "genre defining" (whatever that means) is subjective and has nothing to do with whether or not that item is inventive/innovative.

3. In the real world, an invention occurs the first time an idea is tangibly recorded or made -- that act is what constitutes an original invention. The GUI trash can is an invention that came from Apple, because Apple was the first to document and make that idea. However, Apple was not the first to record or make the finger-touch tablet computer with rounded corners and a shiny, black, flush bezel. Thus, Apple did not invent such a tablet/design.


So, sales figures, profit and "popularization" have nothing to do with an item's inventiveness/innovation. Fanboys, please try to remember this fundamental, real-world concept when composing future posts.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[11]: two sides of the coin
by leos on Wed 21st Dec 2011 16:15 in reply to "RE[10]: two sides of the coin"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I challenge you to prove me wrong. Name something Apple invented.


Really? You seriously believe your own idiocy here?
<Every single apple product here>

There, every single apple product has some unique feature that was not there before because no one else put everything together in quite the same way. Unless you're talking about a 1:1 clone, every new product is an invention to some degree. I would say that given Apple's success and how much they do, let's say "inspire" other companies to make similar products, they are fairly innovative.

Guess what, what has Microsoft invented? What about Google? By your criteria: Nothing.
Everything they did was already done, they just improved it or made small innovations along the way. That is being innovative.

You are seriously lost in the forest if you can claim with a straight face that the iPhone was not a major innovation. Of course every single hardware component was probably used in some previous product, but the critical part is how it all comes together.

A few comments up I asked three new features the iPhone introduced, but it's silence there,


Derp, look two posts up.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Guess what, what has Microsoft invented? What about Google? By your criteria: Nothing.
Everything they did was already done, they just improved it or made small innovations along the way.


Exactly! See, we're actually in full agreement!

That's the whole point I, and so many without a special affinity for any one company, are trying to make. Apple, Google, Microsoft - they're all standing on the shoulders of the giants that came before them. Especially the software world is a world of organic, almost evolutionary progress. Everybody builds upon everybody's work, and this is precisely the reason why software patents are universally despised by programmers.

Apple is very good at taking existing ideas and making them better - however, they have never invented anything. That's a very important distinction in this case, because only inventions ought to be patentable.

I know it's tough to accept, but everything the iPhone did could already be done with most smartphones that came before it - heck, older smartphones could even do more. However, the iPhone did it better - but that doesn't mean Apple invented it.

This is a reality check. Especially now with Jobs' death, the guy is being deified to an almost hurl-inducing degree, even though he himself can only ever hope to stand in the shadow of the truly great visionaries of computing, the people that actually invented entirely new things decades before they were even remotely feasible - Alan Kay, Douglas Engelbart, Ian Sutherland, and so on.

The Google guys, Jobs, Gates - they're ordinary salesmen compared to those guys.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

"[q]Apple has not invented anything in its entire existence. Everything they do comes from others. Not a single original technology or idea originated within Cupertino's walls.


There goes your entire credibility out the window. You spend all day raving about apple fanboys, and then show you can't even hold a logical thought in your head about the company.

Yeah sure Thom, Apple has never invented anything.
"

I challenge you to prove me wrong. Name something Apple invented. A few comments up I asked three new features the iPhone introduced, but it's silence there, so I'm making it easier for you: name one thing Apple has invented. Just one. [/q]

Depends what you mean. If you mean the silly 'angels on a pinhead' type argument about inventing some fundamentally a new technology then I have no idea and it's not relevant to issue being discussed. I don't think that is what the argument is about. It's a bit like dismissing some musical band as not being inventive because they never developed a new style of painting.

Apple make products and devices. The issue should be are Apple's products - taken as whole and not broken into meaningless sub-components - new and innovative and are those products - taken as a whole and not broken into meaningless sub-components - being copied.

My answer to both questions would yes.

Thom really we know you don't like Apple much but what Samsung has been doing has no moral worth and is good for no one except their shareholders. It is beneath you to try to defend such shady and sharp business practices.

Reply Parent Score: 1