Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 20th Feb 2012 11:22 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems No matter where you look these days, there's a profound sense here in the west that the people no longer having any tangible control over what our governments do. Sure, we are allowed to vote every once in a while, but effectively, most of our countries are governed by backroom deals and corporate interests. If matters really do get out of hand, how do we fight this? Well, with technology of course!
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RE[3]: Review history
by blitze on Tue 21st Feb 2012 07:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Review history"
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Well it worked for Gandhi against the most repressive Empire of the time. Just requires critical mass and there is nothing the powers that be can do against it. You fight fire with fire and you get burnt as they say. Only good change can come from using peaceful and enlightened methods.

If you use their methods, you strengthen their hand and justify them.

It isn't easy but you have to use methods of change that you want to move the system towards or you can't hope to change the system.

Look at the blow back of the French, Russian and Chinese revolutions, they achieved little but lots of killing. Maybe there is something to be said of "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword". There is a lot of wisdom through the ages that we need to pay attention to.

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RE[4]: Review history
by lucas_maximus on Tue 21st Feb 2012 17:52 in reply to "RE[3]: Review history"
lucas_maximus Member since:

Going to have to Godwin this ... Similar tactics don't work against people like Stalin or Hitler.

It certainly wouldn't have happened in Europe where the Catholic Church used to celebrate Hitler's Birthday (and continued to until the 1960s), Nazism was preferable to the Catholic Church than any Jewish presence in Europe.

I don't think people know how lucky we have it in the Western world.

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RE[5]: Review history
by Gullible Jones on Tue 21st Feb 2012 23:01 in reply to "RE[4]: Review history"
Gullible Jones Member since:

Fortunately we're not (yet) fighting anything close to Nazism in the mainstream (though there are people who'd love to move things in that direction). And maybe if we use saner methods now, insanity won't be necessary later.

Hey, it worked for SOPA/PIPA, at least for a while...

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RE[5]: Review history
by zima on Mon 27th Feb 2012 23:59 in reply to "RE[4]: Review history"
zima Member since:

Though thing worth remembering is: Stalin or Hitler were essentially also created by more "decisive" ways.

And people in the Western world (in general, really, but those you can mostly see in this thread) follow many myths - in the thread, you can for example clearly see denial of how the conditions in their democracies are largely also reflections of societies, problems even due to outright populism and universal simple human greed. Or, of course, seeing the past through rose-coloured glasses (or, really, still reflecting the way past mass media, actually much less dependable than remembered, were misrepresenting that past back in the day)

Edited 2012-02-28 00:13 UTC

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RE[4]: Review history
by zima on Mon 27th Feb 2012 23:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Review history"
zima Member since:

Look at the blow back of the French, Russian and Chinese revolutions, they achieved little but lots of killing.

Certainly not so simple for the French - its upheaval ultimately also led to radical long-term social and political changes which you probably now take for granted, as the outline for societies or nations. Or emergence of middle class, and its voice.

The Russian is... weird. We are talking here, before it, about a quite backwards place in a semi-colonial dependency. And, afterwards, it brought some of the greatest ironies of history (NVM turning the place into a major power, that's nothing): life expectancy in the area of Soviet Union increased dramatically under Stalin, despite the victims. Also: yes, heavy censorship ...and also the first literate generation.
(and anyway, it unraveled the way it did as hoped by the 'traditionalist' Prussian kinda-backers of Bolsheviks, preferring them over the earlier Provisional Government of 1917; and because it was all in turn a blow-back of tsar & Okhrana ...yup, vicious cycles)

The effects of Chinese one are still unraveling...

But yeah, evolutions tend to promote not the "best" people, but the most ruthless ones.

Reply Parent Score: 2