Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 27th Apr 2012 11:33 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems The BBC reviews the Raspberry Pi. "The device may inspire a new generation of computer programmers or it could leave children used to smartphones and tablet computers baffled and bewildered. A great experiment with the way we teach computing has begun and we can't be sure how it will end." Mine's coming the week of May 21.
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RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 27th Apr 2012 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

Uh? Once you have put the SD card in it, it is an "instant on" device.


I don't know if it is. I have a cheap netbook somewhere and it takes a while to boot Linux from its SD card. To be honest I have no idea how the Pi does this, if it boots in a traditional manner or does something else.

My Commodore 64 "boots" in 2 seconds. As I kid when I wanted to code I'd turn it on and type away. Even a boot time of merely 30-60 seconds could have been enough for me to get over my coding urge and do something else.

Wider range than what is available on Linux???

As for an easy to use language environement, Scratch is used to teach programming to kids, so..


Linux has a very wide range, but only 2 are included. It can be a hassle to install others and this might put people off. Also when everybody starts installing themselves they may end up with different version than their friends causing compatibles issues, like Python 2 vs Python 3.

If its aim is to teach coding it should be ready to do that, not require the user to perform non-coding stuff to get to what he wants to do and why he bought the Pi.

Of course Scratch and Python are 2 choices that should cover a large mass of wannabe coders.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Laurence on Fri 27th Apr 2012 14:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


My Commodore 64 "boots" in 2 seconds. As I kid when I wanted to code I'd turn it on and type away. Even a boot time of merely 30-60 seconds could have been enough for me to get over my coding urge and do something else.

I don't know about your household, but in mine I couldn't just turn the computer on. There had to be this whole charade of me talking my parents into letting me: "yes I have done my homework", "no I wont get annoyed if I lose at a game", "yes I will let my litter brother on the computer later today", "I will come off for dinner without arguing",... and so on.

Plus waiting for games to load dwarfed any PC booting time. Sometimes I'd just program my own games because it meant I could use the computer sooner than if I sat around waiting for the cassette to load (and hoping it would load as that was never guaranteed to happen).

In fact I remember when we first got a floppy disk drive for the Amstrad CPC 464 - it felt like magic.

Kids have it so easy today, they have no idea. Yet I can't help thinking they've missed out because of it.

Linux has a very wide range, but only 2 are included. It can be a hassle to install others and this might put people off.

apt-get install [language of choice] doesn't seem that hard :p

Edited 2012-04-27 14:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 27th Apr 2012 14:44 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, my father died when I was 13 and my mother didn't like me, I was an unwanted child. My brother was 15 years older.

He did take away the cable from the computer to the TV so I did do my homework, but I just put a piece of metal wire between them. The picture wasn't great, but I remember I could play Elite.

He lived in the attic and when he came down he put on the intercom, the other one was in my room, as an anti-burglar system. I used it as an early warning system to quickly turn the computer off.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Flatland_Spider on Fri 27th Apr 2012 15:34 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

They thought about using built in flash, but they decided they didn't want something that was brickable.

I've never found programming languages to be a hassle in any of the Linux distros or FreeBSD. Generally, I install them, and they're ready to go. I've found installing programing languages in Windows to be a hassle, and I've found many an IDE to be a hassle.

You can do shell coding immediately after login in init 3 mode. You could probably setup a script to launch the python shell on login as other solution.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by tidux on Fri 27th Apr 2012 17:00 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Add /usr/bin/python to /etc/shells and chsh to it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by whartung on Fri 27th Apr 2012 17:10 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
whartung Member since:
2005-07-06

I've never found programming languages to be a hassle in any of the Linux distros or FreeBSD. Generally, I install them, and they're ready to go. I've found installing programing languages in Windows to be a hassle, and I've found many an IDE to be a hassle.


It would be nice if there was a nice, simple system ala QBASIC, which had a nice full screen IDE and simple Debugger. Most of the current stuff is really sophisticated which tends to make it complicated. I dunno how well Squeak/Pharo will work the RPi, but I would still think there's a little life in a ncurses based IDE thing that's not Emacs.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 27th Apr 2012 19:15 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Just thinking, wouldn't it be great if (bear with me, I'm stuck in the 80's and home computers mentally) you got a home computer selection on power on, selecting one would load an emulator. The VICE project emulates a bunch of Commodore computers, there are a few ZX Spectrum emulators around and I'm sure we can find a BBC, MSX and Atari one too.

From an educational viewpoint I don't think it would be very helpful, might as well learn a programming language that's useful, but for retro people it would be very cool.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by sirspudd on Fri 27th Apr 2012 19:34 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
sirspudd Member since:
2010-10-13

hah!

Please don't forget Qt Quick 2

I should know, I am the turnip responsible for packaging Qt 5 for the Debian image

Reply Parent Score: 3