Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 21st May 2012 20:03 UTC
For Microsoft, the traditional desktop is old news. It's on its way out, it's legacy, and the harder they claim the desktop has equal rights, the sillier it becomes. With companies, words are meaningless, it's actions that matter, and here Microsoft's actions tell the real story. The company has announced the product line-up for Visual Studio 11, and the free Express can no longer be used to create desktop applications. Message is clear.
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RE[8]: What will their use be?
by henderson101 on Wed 23rd May 2012 13:43
in reply to "RE[7]: What will their use be?"
Member since:2006-05-30
That doesn't make me a "brogrammer", it makes me want to be more productive. If tools like Resharper and Code Rush help me become more productive, then I am all up for them.
Good for you. No one told you to stop. But I'm also guessing you can code with "any text editor" also. Those that can't fall in to the brogrammer camp. Nothing I said implied any different.
However I am pretty fed up of being told by developers that I am "not as good as them" because I choose to use things that make me more productive as for some reason that makes me a lesser being.
And I'm tired of programmers looking down on my because I use the technology dictated by my employer.
So because you don't use it ... it is suddenly niche?
At the moment, 3.5 is the standard runtime most apps target. I'm sure it'll be 4.0 soon enough. Nothing stops 3.5 from working at that stage though.
I appreciate it is a new VM, but I haven't seen anything break being run on 4.0 as yet.
Just because it doesn't blow up right away, doesn't mean there aren't subtle issues lurking.
The car analogy ... here we go.
Good grief... delete "car" and replace with any product. The meaning was the same.
Everywhere I have worked that was a Microsoft House, it was Visual Studio Pro or above and SQL Server Developer Edition.
There's no requirement. Indeed, I've seen plenty of start-ups using Express, and more websites than I care to mention using SS2008 R2 Express as their back-end for an Umbraco CMS.
You can argue the toss all your want, but it is a cut down product to give people a "taster" ... it is pretty freaking obvious to me and most other people I have spoken to at my work.
But it's still not a definitive label. Otherwise it would be like me telling everyone that Android is rubbish or iPhone is expensive or Windows Phone 7 is doomed... it's pure opinion based on hearsay. By your own definition - if you can get the job done, what is the issue? You can't have it both ways. Compare Express 2010 to Delphi 1 and then try telling me that Express 2010 is a poor experience. Seriously, if you believe that you really do need a lesson in history. But you know what - we wrote over 30,000 lines of code in Delphi 1 and had a leading product in the industry we were in. In the process, beating our large American competitor to the punch on implementing the latest requirements for the financial body the software created data for. No fancy code completion of re-factoring tools. Nothing clever at all. Even the syntax highlighting was a bit weird. You deal with the tools you have and get stuff done. End of discussion.
I am pretty bored with this conversation so I am out.
There are no boring conversations, only closed minded and unimaginative people.
RE[9]: What will their use be?
by lucas_maximus on Wed 23rd May 2012 15:03
in reply to "RE[8]: What will their use be?"
Member since:2009-08-18
Good for you. No one told you to stop. But I'm also guessing you can code with "any text editor" also. Those that can't fall in to the brogrammer camp. Nothing I said implied any different.
Fair enough
And I'm tired of programmers looking down on my because I use the technology dictated by my employer.
Snap
Just because it doesn't blow up right away, doesn't mean there aren't subtle issues lurking.
I appreciate this, I was being somewhat trite. It depends how your software was built, how easy to verify whether it will run on 4.0.
There's no requirement. Indeed, I've seen plenty of start-ups using Express, and more websites than I care to mention using SS2008 R2 Express as their back-end for an Umbraco CMS.
It is okay if it is low volume traffic, remember only 1 CPU. It ultimately depends, I work in banks, healthcare and Gambling, they normally get you the full version.
But it's still not a definitive label. Otherwise it would be like me telling everyone that Android is rubbish or iPhone is expensive or Windows Phone 7 is doomed... it's pure opinion based on hearsay. By your own definition - if you can get the job done, what is the issue? You can't have it both ways.
Whether or not it is a definitive label, one can read between the lines.
Compare Express 2010 to Delphi 1 and then try telling me that Express 2010 is a poor experience. Seriously, if you believe that you really do need a lesson in history. But you know what - we wrote over 30,000 lines of code in Delphi 1 and had a leading product in the industry we were in. In the process, beating our large American competitor to the punch on implementing the latest requirements for the financial body the software created data for. No fancy code completion of re-factoring tools. Nothing clever at all. Even the syntax highlighting was a bit weird. You deal with the tools you have and get stuff done. End of discussion.
Not quite.
While I agree with the sentiment, one would have to wonder if you wrote something similar in Express vs Pro how much time would be saved?
Member since:
2009-08-18
Yes you did.
I don't use Resharper, but anything that makes my job quicker and easier ... I am up for it.
That doesn't make me a "brogrammer", it makes me want to be more productive. If tools like Resharper and Code Rush help me become more productive, then I am all up for them.
However I am pretty fed up of being told by developers that I am "not as good as them" because I choose to use things that make me more productive as for some reason that makes me a lesser being.
So because you don't use it ... it is suddenly niche?
I appreciate it is a new VM, but I haven't seen anything break being run on 4.0 as yet.
The car analogy ... here we go.
Everywhere I have worked that was a Microsoft House, it was Visual Studio Pro or above and SQL Server Developer Edition.
You can argue the toss all your want, but it is a cut down product to give people a "taster" ... it is pretty freaking obvious to me and most other people I have spoken to at my work.
I am pretty bored with this conversation so I am out.
Edited 2012-05-23 12:12 UTC