Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 21st May 2012 20:03 UTC
Windows For Microsoft, the traditional desktop is old news. It's on its way out, it's legacy, and the harder they claim the desktop has equal rights, the sillier it becomes. With companies, words are meaningless, it's actions that matter, and here Microsoft's actions tell the real story. The company has announced the product line-up for Visual Studio 11, and the free Express can no longer be used to create desktop applications. Message is clear.
Thread beginning with comment 519116
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[7]: What will their use be?
by lucas_maximus on Wed 23rd May 2012 12:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: What will their use be?"
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

No I'm not. I said, over reliance on the IDE to do all of the work is a common sign of a brogrammer. For example, I code every day and I've never touched re-sharper. Apparently you find that astonishing. I also use Winforms, because our entire application suite was written in 2002 and the cost of redeveloping it with every whim that Microsoft has is not desirable. We could stay on VS2008 forever, should we choose to.


Yes you did.

I don't use Resharper, but anything that makes my job quicker and easier ... I am up for it.

That doesn't make me a "brogrammer", it makes me want to be more productive. If tools like Resharper and Code Rush help me become more productive, then I am all up for them.

However I am pretty fed up of being told by developers that I am "not as good as them" because I choose to use things that make me more productive as for some reason that makes me a lesser being.

OMG.. please! It's a whole new VM backend. 2.0 to 3.5 is a safe bet, but 4.0 - no. That would require a complete regression test of all software. If it ain't broken, no point in fixing it. As we deal with corporations, Windows XP and Windows 7 are here to stay for us for the foreseeable future. The only reason we may have to move to 4 is ASP.Net MVC and Razor.


So because you don't use it ... it is suddenly niche?

I appreciate it is a new VM, but I haven't seen anything break being run on 4.0 as yet.

Yeah, "entry level". In no way does that mean "student and learning". Honestly, if I buy and "entry level" Car in a specific range, do I have to be a learner driver? No. Same deal here. You are incorrect, plain and simple. Nowhere on the Microsoft MSDN or VS sites do they state "Express is intended only for education" or words to that effect. Nowhere.


The car analogy ... here we go.


Everywhere I have worked that was a Microsoft House, it was Visual Studio Pro or above and SQL Server Developer Edition.

You can argue the toss all your want, but it is a cut down product to give people a "taster" ... it is pretty freaking obvious to me and most other people I have spoken to at my work.

I am pretty bored with this conversation so I am out.

Edited 2012-05-23 12:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

That doesn't make me a "brogrammer", it makes me want to be more productive. If tools like Resharper and Code Rush help me become more productive, then I am all up for them.


Good for you. No one told you to stop. But I'm also guessing you can code with "any text editor" also. Those that can't fall in to the brogrammer camp. Nothing I said implied any different.

However I am pretty fed up of being told by developers that I am "not as good as them" because I choose to use things that make me more productive as for some reason that makes me a lesser being.


And I'm tired of programmers looking down on my because I use the technology dictated by my employer.

So because you don't use it ... it is suddenly niche?


At the moment, 3.5 is the standard runtime most apps target. I'm sure it'll be 4.0 soon enough. Nothing stops 3.5 from working at that stage though.

I appreciate it is a new VM, but I haven't seen anything break being run on 4.0 as yet.


Just because it doesn't blow up right away, doesn't mean there aren't subtle issues lurking.


The car analogy ... here we go.


Good grief... delete "car" and replace with any product. The meaning was the same.


Everywhere I have worked that was a Microsoft House, it was Visual Studio Pro or above and SQL Server Developer Edition.


There's no requirement. Indeed, I've seen plenty of start-ups using Express, and more websites than I care to mention using SS2008 R2 Express as their back-end for an Umbraco CMS.

You can argue the toss all your want, but it is a cut down product to give people a "taster" ... it is pretty freaking obvious to me and most other people I have spoken to at my work.


But it's still not a definitive label. Otherwise it would be like me telling everyone that Android is rubbish or iPhone is expensive or Windows Phone 7 is doomed... it's pure opinion based on hearsay. By your own definition - if you can get the job done, what is the issue? You can't have it both ways. Compare Express 2010 to Delphi 1 and then try telling me that Express 2010 is a poor experience. Seriously, if you believe that you really do need a lesson in history. But you know what - we wrote over 30,000 lines of code in Delphi 1 and had a leading product in the industry we were in. In the process, beating our large American competitor to the punch on implementing the latest requirements for the financial body the software created data for. No fancy code completion of re-factoring tools. Nothing clever at all. Even the syntax highlighting was a bit weird. You deal with the tools you have and get stuff done. End of discussion.

I am pretty bored with this conversation so I am out.


There are no boring conversations, only closed minded and unimaginative people. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18



Good for you. No one told you to stop. But I'm also guessing you can code with "any text editor" also. Those that can't fall in to the brogrammer camp. Nothing I said implied any different.


Fair enough

And I'm tired of programmers looking down on my because I use the technology dictated by my employer.


Snap


Just because it doesn't blow up right away, doesn't mean there aren't subtle issues lurking.


I appreciate this, I was being somewhat trite. It depends how your software was built, how easy to verify whether it will run on 4.0.

There's no requirement. Indeed, I've seen plenty of start-ups using Express, and more websites than I care to mention using SS2008 R2 Express as their back-end for an Umbraco CMS.


It is okay if it is low volume traffic, remember only 1 CPU. It ultimately depends, I work in banks, healthcare and Gambling, they normally get you the full version.

But it's still not a definitive label. Otherwise it would be like me telling everyone that Android is rubbish or iPhone is expensive or Windows Phone 7 is doomed... it's pure opinion based on hearsay. By your own definition - if you can get the job done, what is the issue? You can't have it both ways.


Whether or not it is a definitive label, one can read between the lines.

Compare Express 2010 to Delphi 1 and then try telling me that Express 2010 is a poor experience. Seriously, if you believe that you really do need a lesson in history. But you know what - we wrote over 30,000 lines of code in Delphi 1 and had a leading product in the industry we were in. In the process, beating our large American competitor to the punch on implementing the latest requirements for the financial body the software created data for. No fancy code completion of re-factoring tools. Nothing clever at all. Even the syntax highlighting was a bit weird. You deal with the tools you have and get stuff done. End of discussion.


Not quite.

While I agree with the sentiment, one would have to wonder if you wrote something similar in Express vs Pro how much time would be saved?

Reply Parent Score: 2