Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 25th Jun 2012 09:50 UTC
Microsoft I'm very thankful for Danny Sullivan writing this article, because it touches upon a subject I've increasingly been frustrated with: the inflation of the term 'hands-on'. Hands-on used to mean that a journalist, blogger, or reviewer got to properly use a device to get some sort of first impression, usually guided by some words from the manufacturer. These days, however, it seems as if even merely getting a glance at a device is regarded as a 'hands-on'.
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RE: first drive = road test?
by winter skies on Mon 25th Jun 2012 13:31 UTC in reply to "first drive = road test?"
winter skies
Member since:
2009-08-21

It's been going on for years in motoring publications, to be fair. You'll see them taking out the latest Italian rustbucket [...]


OT: If you're talking about Italian supercars, well, you're completely out of this world. They're not competing with German-engineered premium saloons or SUVs. If you're talking about Fiats and modern-day Alfas, they are not even sold in the US and they don't even always get enthusiastic reviews in their motherland. Not that they'd deserve them, anyway.
I can't really see where Italian production (concentrating mainly on the entry-level and exclusive luxury segments) can be compared to German production, excluding Porsche and some really expensive BMWs or Mercs, which can be considered Ferrari and Maserati competitors.
It's Pinifarina, not "Pininferro", BTW.
Anyway, I usually follow sites such as autoblog.com or jalopnik and I've never noticed what you're complaining about.

Reply Parent Score: 1

mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

*pininfarina. sorry

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: first drive = road test?
by zima on Wed 27th Jun 2012 17:26 in reply to "RE: first drive = road test?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It's Pinifarina, not "Pininferro", BTW.

"Pininfererro" - and I guess it was supposed to be a pun at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrero_SpA

I can't really see where Italian production (concentrating mainly on the entry-level and exclusive luxury segments) can be compared to German production

Are you sure you're not out of this world? There are plenty enough of lower-segments Opel and VW cars. Also SEAT and particularly Skoda, really. Not really worse than their family saloons, just smaller and more popular.

Reply Parent Score: 3

winter skies Member since:
2009-08-21

"It's Pinifarina, not "Pininferro", BTW.

"Pininfererro" - and I guess it was supposed to be a pun at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrero_SpA

I can't really see where Italian production (concentrating mainly on the entry-level and exclusive luxury segments) can be compared to German production

Are you sure you're not out of this world? There are plenty enough of lower-segments Opel and VW cars. Also SEAT and particularly Skoda, really. Not really worse than their family saloons, just smaller and more popular.
"

I'm sorry, I should have written Pininfarina, it just contains too many "n"'s. ;)

There are _three_ independent premium automakers in Germany (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi (part of VAG)); Volkswagen is near-premium, a step above generalist automakers, so - while it can be said it competes with Fiat and the likes - its cars are slightly more expensive and better engineered/built. Alfa Romeo wuold be VW's competitor in the Fiat management's hopes. [ http://wot.motortrend.com/alfa-romeo-may-build-luxury-flagship-base... ] Being left with just two models in its lineup, it's struggling.
This leaves out Fiats, competing with Opels, Seats, Skodas. Seats and Skodas are virtually the same and can be considered good-quality, slightly cheaper VW's, while Opel is the European arm of GM, an American company. Fiat covers the A, B, C segments [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_Car_Segment ] and is slowly selling a rebadged Dodge Journey as its D-segment offering. The Italian company is relevant when it comes to citycars and superminis, but not for larger cars. 500, Panda and Punto are good, long-lasting cars.

I'd just like to know what's your reference market, as this will surely influence your perception of the issue.
I just wanted to say that
- Italian small cars are not rusty POSs
- there's virtually no larger Italian car on the market, except for luxury production.
So I wonder what the original poster was referring to when he wrote about "Italian rustbuckets" comparing them to German cars.

Reply Parent Score: 1