Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 18th Dec 2012 00:03 UTC
Microsoft Microsoft has just responded to Google's move regarding Exchange ActiveSync. Sadly, instead of addressing the very real problems consumers are about to face, Microsoft starts talking about switching to Outlook.com.
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RE[8]: Comment by lucas_maximus
by Nelson on Tue 18th Dec 2012 20:38 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by lucas_maximus"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

I know it is traditional for microsofties to equate "vapor/vague promise" with "shipping product/feature." But come on...


This is semantics, you think they won't ship it. I think they will. It isn't outlandish to not provide a shipping date before you know exactly when it will ship.

Or is Google not working on Android 5.0? They haven't given me a solid ship date, am I to assume they're all sitting on their hands? Of course not, it's ridiculous. Anyone who's spent a day in software engineering knows this to be true.


Furthermore their POP support is flaky and its use is discouraged explicitly (in the actual meaning of the word).


How is their POP support flaky? I'm curious. And of COURSE they discourage POP, everyone discourages POP. Even IMAP is a better protocol. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Absolutely nothing.


And there is ZERO support for DAV suite, unless you use 3rd party plugins. So if my mail user experience depends on protocols that are not proprietary to microsoft, I'm basically shit out of luck with outlook.com. Which flies directly in the face of your narrative.


This is true, which I've already agreed with you on (yet you feel the need to restate for the third time)

Do you want me to disagree with you? Because I can point out how EAS is supported in most of the scenarios that Outlook wants to enable (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Windows), which can easily import data that's been exported from other services.

Reply Parent Score: 2

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

You're all over the place trying to fit as many red herrings as you can. Again, I was simply pointing out that outlook.com has its fair share of issues from an end "user experience" standpoint; it only implements microsoft's own protocols properly, with support for alternative protocols either discouraged or simply non-existent. In contrast, google's services as of now support EAS, POP, IMAP, and DEV as well.

Your approach thus far is to conjure an alternative future reality in which microsoft has implemented those protocols...

So google is moving away from having to pay microsoft a hefty license fee to access their protocol, whereas microsoft is basically just focusing on their own protocols. The two parties look equally political and self interested to me.

Edited 2012-12-18 21:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

You're all over the place trying to fit as many red herrings as you can. Again, I was simply pointing out that outlook.com has its fair share of issues from an end "user experience" standpoint; it only implements microsoft's own protocols properly, with support for alternative protocols either discouraged or simply non-existent. In contrast, google's services as of now support EAS, POP, IMAP, and DEV as well.


You neglected to answer how POP support is flaky, or even relevant to the discussion. Outlook.com supports POP, I haven't run into issues, but its possible others have which is why I asked for clarification (which you so far haven't given)

The other part of your statement was that POP was discouraged, AS IT SHOULD BE. POP has no place in modern e-mail.

Microsoft has not dropped IMAP for politics, it has just never supported it in the past, but it has stated that it plans to do so.

That's entirely different from Microsoft supporting IMAP in Outlook and then dropping it and telling users to take a hike and use EAS. That is the difference which you refuse to acknowledge because it is not convenient.


Your only response thus far is to conjure an alternative future reality in which microsoft has implemented those protocols. Which would be a valid argument if we had time machines. Our shared present reality, you know where "facts" tend to live, is different however.


It is one thing for me to say:
- Maybe Microsoft will implement IMAP

it is another thing for me to say:
- Microsoft has stated they will implement IMAP.

You are conflating the two, I mentioned the latter, not the former. You saying that it is vaporware because a ship date hasn't been announced just shows the weakness of your own argument.

Microsoft will support EAS, POP, and IMAP for all. Gmail will only support EAS if you pay for it, and Google doesn't use all of IMAP's features for Push on Android.

So Google is really removing one proprietary protocol, while leaving their proprietary protocol conveniently in place.


So google is moving away from having to pay microsoft a hefty license fee to access their protocol, whereas microsoft is basically just focusing on their own protocols. The two parties look equally political and self interested to me.


Google still pays Microsoft for a license! They have to! Android clients implement ActiveSync.

This is getting ridiculous.

Reply Parent Score: 2