Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 28th Jul 2013 14:06 UTC
General Development "There is a reason I use 'old' languages like J or Lush. It's not a retro affectation; I save that for my suits. These languages are designed better than modern ones. There is some survivor bias here; nobody slings PL/1 or Cobol willingly, but modern language and package designers don't seem to learn much from the masters. Modern code monkeys don't even recognize mastery; mastery is measured in dollars or number of users, which is a poor substitute for distinguishing between what is good and what is dumb. Lady Gaga made more money than Beethoven, but, like, so what?" This isn't just a thing among programmers. The entire industry is obsessed with user numbers, number of applications, and other crap that is meaningless when you consider programming to be art. When I post a new item about some small hobby operating system, the comments will be filled with negativity because it's no Windows or iOS, whereas only ten years ago, we'd have lively discussions about the implementation details. And then people wonder why that scene has died out.
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Comment by lucas_maximus
by lucas_maximus on Sun 28th Jul 2013 22:05 UTC
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

when you consider programming to be art.


Well most don't because programming isn't art, especially when you are doing it properly. Programming is more a craft akin to a blacksmith or a joiner and much like those crafts, while everyone has their own "touch", there is a set of well known principles and practices you must master.

Edited 2013-07-28 22:11 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, often cases the real world best solution is a crazy hack with ducktape connecting the flux capacitor to a the entrails of a slaughtered pig. It is beautiful to a degree, but also repulsive as hell to any one with OCD. The beautiful parts are lower level stuff, IMHO, the sludge is in the business rules. So, if you focus just on flux capacitors, You'll think everything is beautiful.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by lucas_maximus
by acobar on Mon 29th Jul 2013 00:20 in reply to "Comment by lucas_maximus"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Actually, and like on math, some things do carry a sense of beauty and amusement, like when a concise and intelligible proof is developed but, granted, they are massively outnumbered. What most of us do is akin to apply a "equation" or "recipe" to some problems with different levels of verbiage.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by lucas_maximus
by galvanash on Mon 29th Jul 2013 01:52 in reply to "Comment by lucas_maximus"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Well most don't because programming isn't art, especially when you are doing it properly. Programming is more a craft akin to a blacksmith or a joiner and much like those crafts, while everyone has their own "touch", there is a set of well known principles and practices you must master.


I think you are projecting your idea of what programming is on everyone else... I don't disagree with the idea that programming can be viewed as a craft, but that doesn't invalidate the efforts of those that approach it as art (in one form or another).

In other words, writing:

"Life is difficult and finite."

is not the same things as writing:

"Hateful is the dark-blue sky,
Vaulted o’er the dark-blue sea.
Death is the end of life; ah, why
Should life all labor be?" [Alfred Lord Tennyson]

They both mean roughly the same thing, but they are obviously not the same...

All I'm saying is some people like to approach it as art. It isn't necessarily practical or professional, but it can be appreciated for what it is - demonstrating creative skill in the use of a language.

Reply Parent Score: 5

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

All I'm saying is some people like to approach it as art.


That doesn't make the discipline itself art though. Come on, everything can be approached as art but we don't consider building houses, digging graves or driving a taxi to be art.

Reply Parent Score: 2