Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 29th Oct 2013 15:04 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

Nokia has just announced its Q3 2013 financial results, revealing an operating profit of EUR118 million ($162 million) from EUR 5.66 billion ($7.8 billion) revenue. That's up massively year over year, but nonetheless represents another quarter of middling results. The report is the first since Microsoft agreed to purchase Nokia's phone business, and that division - Devices and Services - performed as expected, posting a small loss of EUR 86 million ($118 million).

So, Microsoft is buying the part of Nokia that is losing money, while the parts that make money remain in Finland. Seems like a good deal for Nokia-proper. In the meantime, Microsoft will be saddled with a devices division that is still losing money, and whose increase in sales consists largely of low-end, low-margin devices (like the 520). Interesting - especially since Windows Phone was supposed to prevent Nokia participating in a race to the bottom. I'm sure Microsoft's super-successful Surface division welcomes Nokia's devices division.

The cold truth: even more than 2.5 years after announcing the switch to Windows Phone, Nokia's Lumia range still cannot make up for drop in sales of Symbian devices and feature phones. This is roughly the same timeframe in which Samsung rose to the top. With Android.

Read into that what you will.

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RE[7]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 30th Oct 2013 19:33 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Nelson"
Member since:

Like I mentioned, it depends on if you think Nokia has some out of the ordinary trait that would make gargantuan shipment increases possible. The amount of volume they'd need to both offset and then improve on Symbian's past volumes are astronomical.

No OEM is currently exhibiting growth patterns like that save for the market leaders. Unless you expected Windows Phone to catapult them overnight to market leadership (insane if you thought it was possible from either WP or Android), Nokia's current growth trajectory is fantastic.

They're growing faster than other Android OEMs at comparable volumes and seeing a stabilizing financial situation.

You can call it PR, or Astroturfing or whatever uncreative name you toss out next, but this is exactly what I've been saying would happen. Apparently this quarter I was especially on target.

The Always Wrong Club moniker may annoy you, but its an accurate depiction of some on this website.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Comment by Nelson
by tylerdurden on Wed 30th Oct 2013 23:28 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by Nelson"
tylerdurden Member since:

Dude, what are you going on about? You were right about a couple of figures without any context, which you keep trying to use as some kind of vindicated analysis. When in reality Microsoft had to bail out at significant expense Nokia's device division, because after 3 years of partnership their biggest WP OEM did not manage to turn a single profit.

You keep repeating your script over and over, trying to turn a clear sign of desperation about being squeezed out of a strategic market, into some kind of managerial tour de force.

I just hope you ain't doing all this astroturfing for Micronokia on a pro bono basis, that would be exceedingly sad.


Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[9]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Thu 31st Oct 2013 00:06 in reply to "RE[8]: Comment by Nelson"
Nelson Member since:

In the short term posting losses doesn't matter. Nokia always had Microsoft's implicit backing which was materialized in quarterly payments, engineering resources, $2B in loans to offset the NSN stake buyout, matched marketing dollars, etc.

It was a subsidized phone ecosystem with significant marketing dollars and loans from Microsoft.

It costs money to bootstrap an ecosystem, as BB tragically learned. So while BB exits phones, Nokia's phone division is transplanted to Microsoft.

Existing synergies make this move nothing more than making an implicit backing an explicit one. Microsoft now officially owns D&S, but it essentially belonged to them this entire time.

Could D&S have turned a profit sans Microsoft? Yes, very likely next year with increasing volumes. I'm sure in all your context you neglect to mention how much the financial situation in D&S has improved.

1. D&S losses are shrinking with volume increases
2. Volumes are increasing faster than competitors (19% vs 9% for Lenovo and -0.1% for LG) at similar volumes.

Lenovo is at 12.3 million and LG is at 12 million. At the rate Nokia is going, a strong Q4 will break them into Top 5 Smartphone vendors.

LG posted a loss this quarter by the way, but in a long game nobody cares. LG has more than enough money. Nokia (via Microsoft) has more than enough money.

What matters is volumes because that's what grows an ecosystem which moves higher end devices and has an additive effect on sales and bottom line.

I think the problem you and a lot of others have is that Nokia is breaking the whole "Nokia is dying" narrative. To you, and I'm sure Thom it would've been delightful to see Nokia die last year during the billion dollar losses. Obviously that didn't happen so things for you get a little more comfortable.

Reply Parent Score: 3