Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 2nd Apr 2014 22:07 UTC
General Development

This project is actively developed by the WinJS developers working for Microsoft Open Technologies, in collaboration with the community of open source developers. Together we are dedicated to creating the best possible solution for HTML/JS/CSS application development.

Another bit of Build news: WinJS has been released under the Apache 2.0 license.

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RE[6]: HTML?
by dpJudas on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 18:21 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: HTML?"
dpJudas
Member since:
2009-12-10

These comments would have been fair back when CSS 2 wasn't fully supported. But it is completely nonsense now.

If you write semantic and well structured HTML there is no problem. If you use well understood patterns (Object Orientated CSS and Atomic Design for example) it is extremely easy to create web components.

http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/post/atomic-web-design/

As for dealing with Minor Quirks. Use a CSS framework, the hard work is done for you. All these comments come out of not actually learning it properly.

HTML + CSS certainly has come a long way they last 15 years, especially with the aid of jquery and browsers supporting all of CSS 2 reliably by now.

But the key issue HTML and CSS has always had is that both were designed for text document layout. The page is always laid out top down and the CSS cascade only really makes sense in a text document context. Same applies to the concept of semantic tags - there are no tags for describing complex controls beyond the generic div tag. It is exactly for reasons like this that vertical alignment and layout is so difficult in CSS and creating controls (what your silly article tries to describe using comical references to the periodic system) is equally hard.

There are of course hacks and workarounds for the problems and even CSS 3 specs trying to address some of these issues - but pages like you linked really just confirms that even the most basic concepts from traditional UI frameworks are only now beginning to be possible to implement with a combination of HTML, CSS 3 and Javascript.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: HTML?
by lucas_maximus on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 18:28 in reply to "RE[6]: HTML?"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

There are no tags for describing layout because there shouldn't be. Structure and Layout should be separate.

Sorry but if you look at the bootstrap framework, things that are Styling are styling, things which are markup are markup and things which are logic are done in JS.

Claiming there are hacks, because other people haven't grasped how to do it properly (when there are plenty of good frontend frameworks that do it right) is exactly the same as claiming Java is bad because you only seen in mis-used.

Sorry Nelson but the more you carry on the more you are showing yourself up to be ignorant.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: HTML?
by Nelson on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 19:15 in reply to "RE[7]: HTML?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think structure and layout are fundamentally the same thing. And the container should dictate the layout semantics, not have it interleaved with CSS.

Your response serves only to underscore my point, that a lot of this by default isn't suited for general application development. Its been bolted on after the fact. There are a lot of pain points. WinJS addresses those as do other JS frameworks, but Christ man how is anyone supposed to grok all of this.

You're digging into tons of learning before you even get to actual application logic. Its comical.

Through patterns, and a lot of reading you can possibly start to do some nice things but the learning curve is staggering.

But the person you replied to most recently isn't me 😉

Reply Parent Score: 3