Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 16th Dec 2005 14:57 UTC, submitted by mlauzon
Windows "Microsoft will move the graphics for its next version of Windows outside of the operating system's kernel to improve reliability, the software giant has told Techworld. Vista's graphics subsystem, codenamed Avalon and formally known as the Windows Presentation Foundation, will be pulled out the kernel because many lock-ups are the result of the GUI freezing, Microsoft infrastructure architect Giovanni Marchetti told us exclusively yesterday."
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RE[2]: @SEjeff
by SEJeff on Fri 16th Dec 2005 20:02 UTC in reply to "@SEjeff"
SEJeff
Member since:
2005-11-05

From a technical standpoint, yes it's MS's fault. They shouldn't allow drivers for unstable hardware to have full kernel access. I say unstable as it is super common to OC video cards.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: @SEjeff
by on Sat 17th Dec 2005 02:32 in reply to "RE[2]: @SEjeff"
Member since:

From a technical standpoint, yes it's MS's fault. They shouldn't allow drivers for unstable hardware to have full kernel access. I say unstable as it is super common to OC video cards.

That's a very curious statement that's completely beyond reason to implement. How on earth do you propose Microsoft prevent drivers for unstable hardware to have full kernel access? Short of whatever version of Windows in question completely preventing the user from installing drivers that weren't written by Microsoft themselves (which might *still* be stable drivers for unstable hardware) there is absolutely nothing Microsoft can do to prevent unstable hardware from affecting the system stability.

I'm waiting for you to spout, "Linux does it!" to which I'd retort, "Prove it!" because it simply isn't possible to keep unstable hardware from affecting the stability of systems, regardless of the OS, regardless of how *correct* the driver is, and no OS can determine programmatically "This is unstable hardware" or "This is an unstable driver" or "This combination of driver configuring this hardware causes instability" if it has never seen that hardware and associated driver before, and has no data to judge from. For that matter, not every single piece of hardware that's overclocked is overclocked to the same specs, because the hardware and operating conditions are not identical all over: what's stable at 10% overclocking on one system may cause it to crash on POST on another.

Because hardware that transfers a lot of data tends to use interrupts and bus mastering/DMA, even going to a pure microkernel setup with zero kernel space access by that driver does not absolutely guarantee the system will be stable if the hardware overheats, and weird things start happening. I strongly suspect you're just unhappy that Windows (a lot of people will hate to admit or acknowledge this, but it's true!) the best gaming platform OS (in terms of support for drivers and games available, along with performance in terms of speed for rendering: regardless of another OS perhaps having better drivers/rendering speed for a card, it doesn't do the user any good if no games are available to use it, does it???) simply doesn't allow you to defy the laws of computer hardware and software science and protect you from your need for speed, which pushes you into pushing your system beyond designed limits, and thus having it become unstable. Don't you think that if the manufacturer felt the hardware could reliably run at that higher speed, that'd be the default clock speed???? After all, bragging rights for having the fastest hardware for sale translates into profit for them, so their best interests are met when they provide the best value for the customer, and a huge part of that is whether or not the hardware they sell performs as advertised, for as long as it should function, short of lightning strikes and people overclocking it into meltdown situations.

If you want to blame anyone for your overclocked hardware leading to machine hardware/software instability, go complain to the graphics card and chip manufacturers for making it possible to ask the hardware to run until it drops, and stop blaming your self-induced problems on innocent parties.

Jonathan Thompson

Reply Parent Score: 1