Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Jul 2005 14:41 UTC
Gnome The second point release of the stable 2.10.x branch of GNOME is now officially released. This release has seen continued work to eliminate memory leaks, plain bugs and in general improve and polish the stable series of GNOME. Source: bindings, desktop, platform.
Thread beginning with comment 975
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[2]: Gnome bloat and is slow
by on Thu 7th Jul 2005 19:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Gnome bloat and is slow"

Member since:

I think design an language by the programmer isn't the programmer's role and they havn't this time and ability(and what about if they lost the interesting?).the c++ is a general abstract and be support in compiler ,but what's the gtk+and gobject?They can only reinvent the wheel and less be suit in other use


the c++ take almost 20 years's evolution and more mature and have standard.what the gtk+ and gobject can do.

don't see any big property soft use the python binding

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Gnome bloat and is slow
by on Thu 7th Jul 2005 20:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Gnome bloat and is slow"
Member since:

First, before debating about programming language, try to be understood by improving your written english skill. It is barely readable.
Second, do you asume that gtk is purely object oriented ?
Sure C isn't semantically ans conceptualy an OOL butbut GObject, while being written in C, implements every OO concepts you have in a "real" OOL : classes/instances, inheritance, polymorphism, interfaces ...
Sure, the syntax in pure C isnt as intuitive and integrated as in languages like C++ or Java .. But, as said before, there are bindingq for C++ (gtkmm), for java (java-gnome), for C# (gtk#) and many others ...(hum python and ruby ;) )
So i dont see your point. Don't repeat blindly what some stupid Qt/Wx/Wathever zealots are saying.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: Gnome bloat and is slow
by cm__ on Thu 7th Jul 2005 21:18 in reply to "RE[3]: Gnome bloat and is slow"
cm__ Member since:
2005-07-07

> First, before debating about programming language,
> try to be understood by improving your written
> english skill. It is barely readable.


Funny you would complain about his written English. Even as a non-native speaker I detect seven mistakes in the following two sentences:


> Second, do you asume that gtk is purely object oriented ?
> Sure C isn't semantically ans conceptualy an OOL
> butbut GObject, while being written in C,
> implements every OO concepts you have in a "real"
> OOL : [...]

SCNR.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Mystilleef Member since:
2005-06-29

I did not really understand your reply. But from what I can decipher, you seem to be errorneously comparing a programming language to an API framework.

C++ is a programming language. GTK+ is a GUI API framework. Glib is an API framework for C that provides useful utility and wrapper functions not available in C, but found in mordern languages. GObject is an object-oriented API framework founded on Glib. GTK+ is the object-oriented GUI API framework founded on both Glib and GObject.

Now, the difference between writing an application in a pure language like C++ as opposed to using an API like Glib/GObject/GTK+, is like the difference between night and day. You are eons more productive using a specialized, robust, well-tested library written by talented and experienced hackers and experts, than rewriting everything from scratch in C++.

Also API programming is totally different from pure C++ programming. For some weird reason, you seem to think GTK+ is programming language, when it is really a GUI framework designed with portability and easy bindings to higher level languages, like Python. These are things C++ majorly suck at, when compared to C.

In addition, C++ can't do anything remarkable that can't be done in any other language, talk less of an API like GObject or GTK+. In fact, C++ does not have a standard GUI library. So it can't do what GTK+ can. Except you are silly enough to rewrite a GUI library from scratch. C++ is also a horrible, complex and distasteful programming language to weild.

I seen more C++ project go sour than I've witnessed for any other language including C. I can count the number of large successful C++ projects on both hands. So much for C++ evolution and maturity that in this day and age we still have to battle memory corruptions, leaks, overflows, underflows, and an assorted array of security vulnerabilities both known and unknown. My friend, both C and C++ suck! However, there are some very well designed and powerful APIs that can bring life back to those languages, and GTK+ is one of them.

Finally, in the free software world, we don't judge the success of a project by how many big proprietary softwares use its product, but rather by how many free software products are designed and authored using the product. With that in mind, the link below points to fabulous applications writing in Python using the GNOME technologies and GTK+.

http://pygtk.org/applications.html

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Gnome bloat and is slow
by on Thu 7th Jul 2005 20:36 in reply to "RE[3]: Gnome bloat and is slow"
Member since:

> the link below points to fabulous applications writing
> in Python using the GNOME technologies and GTK+.

Yeah, why not writing applications in Basic, Bash or some line interpreted script language or something. Hey, we seek for professional stuff and not a collection of different languages. I and probably most others here don't want to have 100mb of Mono, 50mb of Python, 50mb of Ruby, 50mb of Java installed only to run the one or other application that depends on it. I think the majority of us readers and users of GNOME want to have a consistent Desktop written throughly in one language. The bindings or language stuff can be an addition ontop of it for those who want it. I think exactly this is one of the main concerns in the head of many people. The more they hear people like you talking about Python, Ruby, Mono, Java, <add whatever here> the more you do to get rid of people. Atm as it looks like GNOME is more of a construction lot for experiments than a serious Desktop Environment.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: Gnome bloat and is slow
by MORB on Fri 8th Jul 2005 09:06 in reply to "RE[3]: Gnome bloat and is slow"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

C++ is a programming language. GTK+ is a GUI API framework.
I agree. Since you pointed out that it's comparing aples to oranges, why did you bother to do the comparison anyway ?

C++ can't do anything remarkable that can't be done in any other language
And no programming language can do anything remarkable that can't be done in assembly.

C++ is also a horrible, complex and distasteful programming language to weild.
That's exactly what I thought, as long as I was fighting C++ instead of working with it, all while thinking I knew better than the people who designed the language.

The problem of C++ is that since it contains a large subset of C for interoperability purpose, an awful lot of people just keep programming it like it was C and just cherry pick a few C++ features.
C++ is not C. It's a totally different language, and coding in C++ by doing things the C way is dangerous and is why a lot of C++ code is messy and hard to maintain.
For instance, there is no problem using exceptions - as long as you don't keep writing C, which is mostly incompatible with exceptions.

So much for C++ evolution and maturity that in this day and age we still have to battle memory corruptions, leaks, overflows, underflows, and an assorted array of security vulnerabilities both known and unknown
That's exactly what happens when you insist on your code being some bizarre C/C++ chimera.
Take advantage of the RAII pattern, use STL containers instead of old-style strings and arrays, use smart-pointers, and these problems are no more.

There are also good programming practices, like writing your code in a way that avoid useless clutter and makes the purpose of the code more apparent, that just aren't possible in C.

Reply Parent Score: 1