During a Dell earnings call, the company mentioned some staggering numbers regarding the amount of PCs that will not or cannot be upgraded to Windows 11.
“We have about 500 million of them capable of running Windows 11 that haven’t been upgraded,” said Dell COO Jeffrey Clarke on a Q3 earnings call earlier this week, referring to the overall PC market, not just Dell’s slice of machines. “And we have another 500 million that are four years old that can’t run Windows 11.” He sees this as an opportunity to guide customers towards the latest Windows 11 machines and AI PCs, but warns that the PC market is going to be relatively flat next year.
↫ Tom Warren at The Verge
The monumental scale of the Windows 10 install base that simply won’t or cannot upgrade to Windows 11 is massive, and it’s absolutely bonkers to me that we’re mostly just letting them get away with leaving at least a billion users out in the cold when it comes to security updates and bug fixes. The US government (in better times) and the EU should’ve 100% forced Microsoft’s hand, as leaving this many people on outdated, unsupported operating system installations is several disasters waiting to happen.
Aside from the dangerous position Microsoft is forcing its Windows 10 users into, there’s also the massive environmental and public health impact of huge swaths of machines, especially in enterprise environments, becoming obsolete overnight. Many of these will end up in landfills, often shipped to third-world countries so we in the west don’t have to deal with our e-waste and its dangerous consequences directly. I can get fined for littering – rightfully so – but when a company like Microsoft makes sweeping decisions which cause untold amounts of dangerous chemicals to be dumped in countless locations all over the globe, governments shrug it off and move on.
At least we will get some cheap eBay hardware out of it, I guess.
So they see an opportunity to sell more shit at the expense of the environment.
Nice. Capitalism at is finest.
Yeah but this could backfire spectacularly on them. Sure. Enterprises will have little choice then to upgrade, but this is surely helping to fuel the digital sovereignty movement happening at the moment.
There are also a lot of people that could end up just giving up on Windows in the consumer market.
I mean younger people are mostly on their phones as it is now and seem to do everything on it that people would do on their computers.
jonathan2260,
While the mobile market is larger and more accessible, IMHO the demise of PCs have been largely overblown because for the most part phones have become their own market and computers are still standing on their own.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/chart-pc-market-has-recovered-to-2012-levels-from-low-point-in-2017.html
From a seller’s point of view, the problem with computers isn’t that phones have replaced them, but simply that the computer market is saturated. People who want a computer already have one that’s good enough so there’s little reason to buy a new one. Long lasting products are the enemy and that’s where planned obsolescence comes in 🙁
While phones can offer an entry point for editing videos/photo/music, emails. spreadsheets, gaming, etc, I think computers will always be desirable for productivity and “real work”. Even when “there’s an app for that” most people reach the point where the phone is just subpar. My daughter likes to draw and wants to do animation, which certainly can be done on the phone. But recently she asked (unprompted by me) specifically for something better than a phone. I am getting her a pen digitizer for xmas.
Microsoft could not care less about home users.
The key word there is “enterprise enviroments”, who thanks to a pile of new regulations, will be forced to upgrade for the sake of it.
It’s a case of creating the demand for their own product, all concert: investment funds (like Blackrock), with a stake both at MS and hardware vendors like Dell, lobbies governments to create laws and regulations about “cyber security” with step fines for those non-compliant, and also forces the whole supply chain of their companies to stay “compliant”.
Then, you cease supporting some “legacy” stuff that everyone is perfectly content to use, and PROFIT!
Just like magic.
Want to know the real problem here? Corporations learning they don’t need end consumers. They can just consume amongst themselves in circular fashion eternally and be gone with it, creating their own demand, investing amongst themselves, purchasing their own services and products, goes on.
The shift to Windows 11 was unavoidable. Android devices, Apple devices and consumers devices (TV, blu ray, consoles) are “secured”. They can hardly be jailbreaked.
Computers cannot be jailbreaked: they are not jailed.
The whole story about TPM for security reasons is also for securing the data that goes through your computer.
Be ready for the next move: I predict in a near future, that Netflix, Steam, XBox live, maybe even payments will require a “safe computer” – that is a signed one from boot to navigator. A prooved chained of security.
That means: to have an architecture that garantees the security.
And then next move: bye bye javascript, welcome to signed wasm applications.
Linux will be out of the equation fast enough: you will be able to go on the internet, but you won’t be able to watch movies, connect to steam (unless on a signed/encrypted linux – don’t know who will provide it), or check your bank account.
kwanbis,
There are so many ways in which our planet mirrors the tragedy of the commons.
Obviously microsoft are the assholes here, but frankly what they are doing is effectively the norm now. Executives don’t care about any of it, only their own pocketbooks. Without regulation, there’s no incentive to do anything about it. CEOs are more than happy to externalize the harms caused by their own activities. Every one of us knows this to be the case and yet for a multitude of reasons we’ve been collectively unwilling/unable to fix it. We bare these burdens so that corporate profits can keep going higher. To be fair there are advocates for right to repair/pollution reduction/etc, but they’re fighting an uphill battles against such powerful corporations and lobbyists. Making any progress through government is rare and the political pendulums can feel like a one step forward, two steps back situations.
Even in areas where green investments could actually produce positive economic activity, they still kill these initiatives anyway. We had great opportunities to invest and grow domestic solar panel manufacturing and become leaders in the world, but instead now most panels have to be imported from china. It didn’t have to be this way except western MBAs were more focused on rent seeking business models instead of actually doing the hard work of building stuff. This is old news with hardware, but the same problems are leaking into the software side too. Not only are these capitalists failing us, but because of them our domestic industries keep falling further behind. Despite all the wealth and resources they’re sitting on, they may be dooming us to an eventual collapse as their failure to invest in western production and skills results in a bad feedback loop.
But when you say that capitalism as it is, is not sustainable in the long term, they call you commie or stupid things like that.
I was going to write about “big mega corp one again shafting users”, but then EU government body managed to pull the worst anti-consumer move of all time, eclipsing any harm any private company can do to EU citizens.
(No, I don’t mean what Microsoft did is benign, it was bad. But at least you have a choice)
What happened?
They banned end-to-end encryption for the public.
So much so, some actors have already moved forward with draconian rules:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115584160910016309
Icing on the cake?
Of course government officials are exempt from “clear text only communications that will be collected by cheapest vendor who won the contract bid”
https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/chat-control-eu-lawmakers-finally-agree-on-the-voluntary-scanning-of-your-private-chats
They of course use one of their most valuable excuses to steal more of public freedoms.
@Thom: Please write an article about “chat control” . This needs much more public attention.
Chat control is barely a blip on the radar at the moment, if you understand how the EU legislative process works. The endless fearmongering is happening way too early in the process, and that’s doing nothing but make people tired of it before any real impact on the process can be made.
Chat control will be covered here once it actually poses a real threat of turning into any law whatsoever. Right now it just does not.
Thom,
Thank for the quick response, I appreciate it.
To be honest, I’m not privy to all the details of EU mechanisms. However from this side of the pond it is all too scary. Not only I’m worried about the fragmentation (again GrapheneOS is just the first victim among many), I’m more afraid if there won’t be fragmentation.
We already have our crazies on this side. But they usually “take a hint” and don’t pass these things. However if it becomes a norm in the second largest market, they could easily “influence” big tech to fall in line (and you’d probably have seen how quickly they would fall in line to continue doing business)
Which would practically mean the end of private Internet for all of us (or at least criminalization of it)
And… again to be fair, I checked again.
The language has changed from mandatory scanning to Voluntary one — for those that are deemed “high risk”.
But do you think that won’t be forced onto companies to “willingly volunteer” opening up backdoors?
(missed edit)
For our “crazies”, we have three “undead” bills which has been struct down many times, but the congress keep bringing them back: STOP CSAM, EARN IT (anti section 230), and KOSA.
All of them are more or less similarly dangerous for the public freedoms.
Isn’t this the mistake we keep making though? We don’t lobby until it’s already signed off as voters. By which time it’s to late to change much.
Email your MEP today and ask them their stance on the policy at the very least. It could be its not even in their radar (many MEP just don’t have much interest in this area of legislation and might not even attend the votes).
Every vote matters, especially when it’s a low turnout issue like chat policy!!
Adurbe,
Thank you.
That is the very much biggest fear I have. The public will learn too late about, it. And when we start that discourse, it won’t matter what privacy advocates say.
sukru,
I do agree that censorship is dangerous, however that’s not a reason to do nothing about the planetary damage taking place under corporate laissez-faire. The way you used “but” here sure feels like whataboutism to suggest that we should not have policies to reduce corporate harm because of criticism over another unrelated policy. While I agree with criticizing censorship, I am critical of the rational that we should do nothing about “A” because of unrelated policy “B”.
Alfman,
Oh now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying “what about”, it is more like “yes, this is bad, but I am struct with something even worse today”
And my sceptic side, or rather the suspicious one, is wondering whether the push for the new operating system is related to this and similar “hidden” mandates?
sukru,
Why does there need to be a “but” though? These aren’t exclusive and I don’t think treating them as if they were is a good idea. The health of the planet is important and so is democracy. Should be “A” bad
butand “B” bad.You’ve got it the wrong way around, politicians pass laws, but Microsoft/Google/Apple have all been guilty of building out the digital jails long before there was any legislation to mandate it. These corporations could all be doing more to defend owner rights, but they dont.
Alfman,
You are right. They are both bad… my concern was they are at different levels of bad.
I look at this from two angles: freedom, and risk.
And in addition to “large tech” and “governments” there is actually a third group, which are “data brokers”. (we could also consider “academia”, but let’s ignore them for now)
Now the lowest risk and highest freedom is with corporations. I’m not saying they are saints. But there ways to avoid them (though it is becoming harder). You can choose not to install Windows in most cases, even for gaming. One can buy a mobile phone from a third party “de-googlified”.
The higher risk is with data brokers. Most people do not even realize they are the customer. Sorry… we are the “product”. I recently used one of these privacy services, and turns out my information was collected and sold by over 200 hundred companies, almost none of them known to me.
They are high risk, because they would have basically zero high quality cyber defense, and they get hacked all the time (then our information becomes a forever part of “dark net”)
And shall we go into why government is hardest to avoid and also highest risk for individual freedoms and data privacy?
sukru,
I didn’t really want to go down this O/T rabbit hole, but this presumption that everyone is free to choose comes across as naive to people who have already had these choices stripped away. I have been forced by employers & banks to use an unmodded phone. Very frequently I’ve come across apps I need but can’t get outside of google’s app store. I’ve also been forced to upgrade windows and use invasive applications for work. Some websites require chrome and discriminate against alternatives. Etc.
I strongly advocate for owner rights and freedoms, you might even consider me an extremist. So whenever our freedom gets jeopardized, I do get pissed about that. But I’ve gotta be honest with you, so far corporations have done more to harm my digital freedoms than the government has. Not that I give the government a pass, they can overstep their authority in authoritarian ways too. But insisting that government is worse really misses the point IMHO, which is that we need to stand up against oppression regardless of who’s doing it. It’s like having a car stolen and then determining the severity of the crime based on the thief’s nationality. I don’t give a damn about that, it’s wrong because it’s wrong.
I am glad you acknowledge the disconnect between user privacy and corporate agendas. And yet you still seem inclined to downplay privacy lost to corporations while vilifying governments even though they’re both guilty. These days a lot of our data is being bundled into packages sold to governments and other buyers. Again I’d say consumer privacy issues are a real problem that spans both corporate and government entities. To me “lowest risk and highest freedom is with corporations” seems bent on trivializing corporate involvement and putting the blame on government when in fact corporations and governments are often acting in unison.
Alfman,
Fortunately that rabbit hole is not too deep.
It is economic pressure vs physical coercion.
I’m not arguing companies will not make your life difficult. They will, but one always have choices.
Not since the days of the East Indian Companies, there has been actual coercion by companies for anyone to do anything. You can always quit. The same it not true for governments. They can force you to do things you don’t want and take away your freedom or property if you do not comply.
Anyway….
You seem to be very lucky.
Not needed DeCSS to play DVDs on Linux (still technically illegal to obtain and distribute), never had to use The Pirate Bay, never needed reliable end-to-end encryption without backdoors.
They are now on the process of making GrapheneOS illegal in the France (SREN / olympics law) (possibly soon all EU – Chat Control).
Yes, the banks will make your life difficult.
But you still have *some* choice.
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/#united-states
Yes, I think you agree on this important point. The reason government does not attack the very dangerous second group (the information brokers), but publicly vilify “big tech” is they very much buy the data from brokers. And they use the public image of “doing something” to seem like the good guys.
The only reason I believe brokers are still here is they are used to shirk Fourth Amendment Rights.
Coercive “choices” are not genuine though.. If the same rebuttal were used against your opinion of oppressive laws “”if you don’t like the laws then you can choose to live somewhere else”. It’s technically true, but don’t pretend for a second that you wouldn’t want to call that out as a bullshit excuse for what is legitimately government oppression. You might not use this language, but it’s what you would think and feel. Well, from my point of view it’s just as much of a bullshit excuse to downplay harmful corporate acts by telling people to “go somewhere else” – doubly so when the corporations involved are monopolies and oligopolies.
So I do not accept the “but the government is worse” line as sound rebuttal. I think government and corporations are in bed more than is being acknowledge here. It’s bad for governments to turn towards authoritarian policies, but who do you think is enabling that crap? It’s the corporations who have been building out digital jails and owner enforcement mechanisms over decades. IMHO it’s just as irresponsible for society to ignore this loss of rights regardless of whether it’s government or corporations who are taking them away.
Alfman,
True. I think the worst of the worst happens when governments and corporations team up against the consuming public.
“At least we will get some cheap eBay hardware out of it, I guess.”
Have you checked the prices on eBay recently they are anything but cheap.
That’s because the machines still hold value. Do I want an inter 8series as my day to day work machine.. No. Would it make a perfectly serviceable homelab/container server.. Yes! And half the price of a turnkey 2bay synology.
Adurbe,
True. Even if it cannot run Windows 11, many are perfectly fine with running Windows 10 (hence the title, some chose not to upgrade), and others can switch to Linux, Chrome or any other operating system like FreeNAS.
I just bought 4 Ryzen 5 2400GE mini PCs – 20€ each (had to put in memory and SSD, but I do have a lot of spare in my drawrs)
Guess what? Windows 11 standard ISO does not complain about them (although the CPU is not listed). They do run Windows 11 (TPM2 inside).
But I prefer them under Linux… They can do small LLM (7G) relatively fast. Or transcoding. Or play games (even 2021 games – thanks FSR).
I think Microsoft will say: we did give them an option, you can now pay for updates.