Apple has been criticised for letting an ‘egregious error’ in the way the latest version of its OS handles Java slip through its testing process. More info here.
OS X update brews Java storm
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Eugenia Loli
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Thanks for the alert and how to correct a potential problem. I just checked my java version and found no problems. Hoorah
I’m tired of hearing BS about Apple letting this ‘slip’ through their testing process.
This bug doesn’t affect everyone who upgrades.
Can you verify that your code is 100% bug free no matter what your users have installed?
From the article: A minor update to Mac OS X is causing headaches for some computer owners, who find their systems no longer work properly when using Java-based applications or visiting certain Web sites.
Could somebody please specify the numerical value for the variable “some.”
Thanks!
//Can you verify that your code is 100% bug free no matter what your users have installed?//
Remember that, the next time you’re tempted to bash Microsoft for one of their screw-ups.
(nevermind the fact that the Windows codebase has to work on THOUSANDS of different combos of hardware, unlike OS X)
As usual… the other OS News chose the wiser, more accurate, more descriptive headline and summary.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050419-4821.html“>Panther
True. I guess they all screw up at some point…
What this little incident proves is not that they let something slip through the crack; what it shows is they probably didn’t have enough people testing the update at the time – it would be also interesting to know how many testers came across the problem and either dismissed the issue as a problem on their part or if they did notify Apple, Apple simply dimissed it as a end user issue as the number who had the problem was very few.
With that being said, since updating, Disk Utility crashed when trying to burn an ISO image to a CD – I’ve done a clean reinstall and I’ll see how things are working now after I tweak some stuff a little.
G4 quicksilver 733 Mhz
typed ‘java -version’ in the terminal
got following response:
java version “1.4.2_05”
So no problem here with update.
Safari is running fine too. So far no crashes after update.
I think FUD by C/NET, although a few have reported problems on some websites.
Same here. Not everyone is affected so make sure you check before you go nuts.
I dont have any problems with safari, or java, everything is working fine here
Could somebody please specify the numerical value for the variable “some.”
a couple is two, a few is three, and some is four or more.
Does this concern people who have installed Java 1.5 on OS X?
John D. Mitchell’s Using JDK 1.5 unofficially in OS X 10.3.8
http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/rants/C1464297901/E76947863/index….
Affected both my G5 and my iBook. Typed java -version and got Segmentation Fault. Had to download Security Update 002 from February and install it. I’d be more concerned but my copy of Tiger’s coming in 10 days, so I’m not worried about this one long term.
So there’s some bugs, so what, roll on 10.4.1
Affected none of the 5 macs I’ve updated. For once.
Since Apple’s OS X doesn’t revolve around Java, I really see this aa a Java/Sun problem not an Apple problem.
Granted, Apple should try to maintain backward compatibility as much as possible, but isn’t it Sun’s responsibility to beta test their software so that these types of problems don’t occur?
There wasn’t a new release of Java. It was an update to the OS. The Java worked in 10.3.8 but the update to 10.3.9 broke it in quite a few systems. So, no its not Sun’s responsibility here.
I have however noticed that when this seems to happen to someone it seems to effect all their Mac’s and if it does not effect them then then all the Mac’s they own are okay.
That suggests to me that there’s a extra factor involved rather than just a dodgy install routine.
Well, not only is Java broken on my machine, but since the update, ive have nothing but crashes(actually screwed up one of my harddrives, and disk utility can’t fix it). In 2 days ive had atleast 5 crashes, which is amazing since its also the amount of crashes ive had since i bought my mac(in January)
BTW, if anyone knows of any free programs to fix a fat32 drive for mac os just email me or something, I really don’t want to have to try to take this drive out of my box.
-Michael Moran
If you use a NetGear router and have installed 10.3.9 and notice that, after you threw out DNS fix, since everything was working as before, the iTunes store takes a long while to load, you might want to reapply the “DNS fix” into your Network panel. This “fix” was what spared many a NetGear owner (like me) from having to go out and buy a new, non-NetGear, router to use 10.3.8. 10.3.9 has fixed that issue, but the “fix” does still seem to improve connectivity in some case, like with the iTunes store.
This may only affect NetGear users, like myself. Anyone here able to confirm this?
Luposian
I just wonder how anybody can expect imperfect people to make perfect things???
What NetGear issue? I have a NetGear wireless router and have had no problems with it through out all the different flavors of 10.3.
Care to elaborate?
Was your install Vanilla or have you modified your machine with any third party apps? If so, what apps?
Also, did you fix the permissions?
java version “1.4.2_05”
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-141.4)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-38, mixed mode)
No problems here but I did run disk utility and update prebindings and used the combo install. Delta updaters are a waste of time in my experience.
I haven’t been affected, still I expect more from Apple.
If they’re going to give us “Microsoft Quality” what’s the point.
Yeah, it is a vanilla install. Obviously I have software on my system, but nothing that should affect the system. So far I have had Camino, Safari, ITunes, Quicktime, disk utility, and the Terminal all lock up, and then the whole thing locks up to the point where I have to reboot the machine. And my other disk can’t be fixed my disk utility. I did check permissions and fixed the 5 or so wrong permissions, but my disk still won’t start, when i try to fix them i get this error:
Repairing disk for “disk0s5”
** /dev/disk0s5
Invalid BS_jmpBoot in boot block: 525261
Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit (-9972)
Repair attempted on 1 volume
0 HFS volumes repaired
1 volume could not be repaired
Thanks,
Michael Moran
I’ve had no problems at all with Java after the update either. Never had any issues updating from version to version either.
I would try the following
1, Reboot with shift key pressed i.e., “safe mode”
2. Run MacJanitor
3. Run Dragster or Onyx to clean up global prefs etc.
4. Repair using Disk Utilities in Utilities folder or after starting up from Restore/OS install CD
5. Remove 3rd party Ram
6. Clear cache from Safari
Most important of all, run the security update as recommended by Apple.
3 macs x 17 updates each (10.2- 10.3.9) =51 total updates, never a single problem, ever. Just lucky I guess
“but isn’t it Sun’s responsibility to beta test their software so that these types of problems don’t occur?”
FYI the Java that is in MacOS X is actually Apples version of Java built by and for them. And THEN Sun checks the version before “certifying” the Java. In this case it has nothing to do with Sun at all.
Just to go on record about it, this is just an estimate on the amount of people out there who are having this issue:
1:100
I say this because we have 100 Macs in my schools computer dept, and I help the prof admin them, only one of those had the segmentation fault.
Thanks Hobbs,
Well, I have ran all security updates(infact it is after this last update that all the trouble began. Besides the crashing that started, the system works fine(I was using it earilier) it just my drive with most of my personal data that appears to have taken a dive
Im going to try that stuff when I get home, and I think im going to pull the drive and see if I can atleast recover some of the data.
and…I know i shouldn’t feel the trolls, but,
RE: Anonymous (IP: —.dsl.siol.net)
idiot, sheesh some people really need to get out, id be rude, but i just feel sorry, such a waste.
I agreee Michael Moran. i have similar responses ie problem with you not the os before…go figure. The OS is a human construct therefore there will be shortcomings. Whether it be OS X, XP or Linux…period. It is how the company goes about fixing the bug is what I would be more interested in. Just because of this one segmentation fault when running Java does not require slamming Apple.
I follow Apple’s instructions (I get the segmentation fault), I try reinstalling the Java update, but it says that the version of Java doesn’t need updating, and I can’t install it.
I have an ibook G4 1Ghz, 512MB RAM 40GB disk combo drive computer purchased september last year, and I have no problems with this update. Yet other ibook owners are reporting problems. Someone on here mentioned a school where 1 in 100 macs was affected. But these macs would be identical wouldn’t they?
Why are some macs affected and some aren’t when they are virtually identical?
This must be a very strange bug.
G4 iBook: I use Jedit for html and javascript development (I don’t care much for Xcode).
I installed the update, and immediately Jedit broke. I thought, “what the heck, I’ve been thinking abouyt trying Eclipse anyway”. I downloaded and installed Eclipse — no joy.
So, I’ve been reluctantly using Xcode for the last couple of days. I’m glad to learn about the fix.
It didn’t seem to affect Safari at all on my machine — just pure java applications.
I’m not affected because I don’t use Mac for developpement..
There is still no Java 1.5 for OS X ! That’s unacceptable to me.
Apple is not taking Java tasks too seriously.
I tried reinstalling the Java update, but it says that the version of Java doesn’t need updating, and I can’t install it.
Same erro as others. The setup and the apple KB says that the Java update will upgrade the existing one if needed or if same version It will simply replace it (seems inaccurate).
Will try running the security fix only.
I’m not affected because I don’t use Mac for developpement..
There is still no Java 1.5 for OS X ! That’s unacceptable to me.
Apple is not taking Java tasks too seriously.
Oh pulease, give it time. What are you missing from 1.4.2 that you need, which is available in 1.5.0? Name *ONE* application out there that requires 1.5 because it utilises a feature no available in 1.4.2.
Oh, and btw, the most important feature – shared VM, has been in MacOS X since God was a teenager. The 1.5.0 release is merely playing catchup to Mac in alot of areas.
This problem affected my fairly new Mac mini (it’s a few months old), which still doesn’t have a lot of third-party software on it. It’s pretty much just a vanilla install with JEdit, Firefox, Fink and a couple of other things installed.
I think that there should be some sort of fix released through Software Update, since most people affected won’t read OSNews to hear about the workaround, and will simply put up with the Java plugin crashes, while cursing their Mac.
I follow Apple’s instructions (I get the segmentation fault), I try reinstalling the Java update, but it says that the version of Java doesn’t need updating, and I can’t install it.
I would just find the Java folder and dump it [keep it in a separate folder or burn it on a CD, just to be on the safe side though]. That should give update something to reinstall.
I’ve installed 10.3.9 yesterday and have not found any problem, but I’ll try the Terminal line to see if there is a problem or not.
I agree with the fact that there’s always going to be bugs in complex systems like OSs, but I do believe they should make every effort to make the software work. If it was a feature that you thought was important enough to incorporate into your system, then you have to make sure it works. Everybody can add ‘apps’ and ‘features’ to an OS, but if it doesn’t work, what’s the point, right?
On QA: I agree that Microsoft may have more software to test. I can tell you from experience that testing all combinations in an OS that is as widely used as OS X and Windows is physically not possible. It’s like trying to read every book ever written. You will never live that long.
If a bug is not a showstopper it won’t delay the release of major software. Apple has acknowledged that there is a problem [it is the least you can do as a system developer] and there is a workaround, so the damage should be minimal. If you don’t care to read up on news about the system, you may not hear about it for a while. They’ll put it in the software updater eventually.
I’m still not going to sulk about my system. Happy as a clam I am.
I applied 10.3.9 and ran Limewire it just bounced once then disappeared. Ran the security update something or other and it worked fine.
I’m running a Dual 1.8 G5 (Rev A) with 2.5gb Ram
After update 10.3.8 to 10.3.9 on my PowerBook ‘Pismo’ G3/500 MHz/1GB RAM, all Java apps won’t run. Reinstall of »Security Update 2005-002« (without reinstall of Java VM) fixed this! *UFF*
Geesh, another split down party lines — and we thought our elected officials were bad.
Apple is not infallible. Matter of fact they’re so feature driven these days that their quality assurance has been seriously lacking on several occasions. In fact the trend from Apple seems to be that they’re depending on their end users for Q/A more and more. The java problem may be rare but it’s not like it was some hidden bug that showed up only if XY and Z occurred inside a running VM, the java executable *Seg faults*! Immediate crash, java-no-workie. Surely Apple’s Q/A department has access to the machine configurations vulnerable to this problem — OS X only runs on Apple hardware. Someone mentioned “it’s about how they respond to issues that matters” — I agree, I’ve had several bugs logged for almost two years with absolutely *no* movement to fix them — and I’m not alone in that. These are not bugs that only I’ve noticed either — these are core interface bugs.
I think instead of using their end-users as unpaid Q/A engineers they should require all Apple employees to install the updates first and run them for a few days or a week. How many of these problems do you think would still get released into the wild?
Some folks out there will read this and think: “he’s just anti-Apple, waiting for any reason to slam them”. To you I say grow up, I’ve been using Mac’s as my primary and preferred workstations since the Apple IIe; Apple is doing wonderful things and OS X rocks — but Apple screws up like everyone else.
I’ve had issues with Disk Utility crashing out when trying to burn some ISOs, notably the Ubuntu Live PowerPC disc (though it works for the x86 version). I’m disappointed with Apple about this — it’s the least reliable piece of software in their suite, and if you want one thing to be trustworthy, it would be the utility you use to repair corrupted hard drives…
The solution to the burning problem is to use a nifty bit of donation-ware called “Firestarter FX”:
http://www.projectomega.org/subcat.php?lg=en&php=products_firestart…
Nick
And the worst part its the lady of the houses beloved Mac G4.
She upgraded from 10.3.2 to 10.3.9 with the combo. I managed to get the permissions sorted out but cannot get the disk repairs completed.
Currently trying all the procedures listed by Apple at their site but I hold out little hope.
It wont even boot into safe mode under OSX but I can still access the hdd through Classic.
This is the type of mess you can possibly get playing with alpha software from Betanews.
Looking through the various Mac forums I would guesstimate that 1 in 5 combo upgrades to 10.3.9 have major issues with many resulting in crashes.
It strikes me that Mac OSX upgrades are just one continuing circus.
Since I am not paid by Apple to do their R&D this will be the last upgrade of any description that will be performed on her G4.
“And the worst part its the lady of the houses beloved Mac G4.
She upgraded from 10.3.2 to 10.3.9 with the combo. I managed to get the permissions sorted out but cannot get the disk repairs completed.”
Sabre, did you repair permissions, update prebindings before applying 10.3.9 Combo? In the Apple forums the Combo update is the recommended updater to use.
i updated my mini mac 1.42, no problems at all.
I couldn’t get Java working with reinstalling Java, or the security fix, but type this in a terminal, and you should be back up and running:
sudo update_prebinding -root / -force
“Remember that, the next time you’re tempted to bash Microsoft for one of their screw-ups.
Uh, yeah, except that Apple is primarily a hardware company and MS a software company. That and comparing the size of the Windows division to Apple’s OS X division.
“(nevermind the fact that the Windows codebase has to work on THOUSANDS of different combos of hardware, unlike OS X)”
And you think that’s Microsoft’s concern? That’s the hardware companies’ problem. They either make their stuff compatible with Windows (and don’t forget to kiss Bill’s @$$ once in a while) or they’ll be out of business. I should think the “(Insert OEM) recommends Windows XP” on every OEM’s website should be proof enough of the groveling. MS never has to worry about recommending any hardware do they. If you buy the full version of XP and it doesn’t run on the white box you just bought, you think MS cares?
And you think that’s Microsoft’s concern? That’s the hardware companies’ problem. They either make their stuff compatible with Windows (and don’t forget to kiss Bill’s @$$ once in a while) or they’ll be out of business. I should think the “(Insert OEM) recommends Windows XP” on every OEM’s website should be proof enough of the groveling. MS never has to worry about recommending any hardware do they. If you buy the full version of XP and it doesn’t run on the white box you just bought, you think MS cares?
I think what people also convienently forget is the fact that Microsoft actively pushes the fact that there are multiple hardware vendors as some sort of advantage over the Mac platform.
With that being said, I don’t see how multiple vendors have any relevance as to whether a software update for a operating system component has to which hardware it is being ran on. If we were talking about hardware support and reliability – then possibly the original author (before you) would have a case, but the fact remains, we’re talking about a software update – for Java – which quite frankly, it doesn’t matter which piece of hardware it is written on.
Java itself is very uncritical in different systems because it does not hook itself into the system very tightly.
As for JDK1.5, this is a big problem for me as well, I already develop most if my code for 1.5 but the Mac is not a good development and testing platform currently.
(Eclipse is sort of dog slow in some screen operations thanks to the dog slow resizing OSX has, the JDK is at a level which is almost a year behind the Windows word, well Linux PowerPC is not much better because IBM does not have a 1.5 jdk yet as well :-(, and generally besides eclipse there is not too much which is bearable on a Mac to develop with. Xcode java development is a step back 10 years into the time, and Netbeans, I have to test that, but given the structure of the window layout it might suffer from the same problems as Eclipse does.