Home > Windows > Microsoft more open about Longhorn featuresMicrosoft more open about Longhorn features Eugenia Loli 2005-04-19 Windows 41 CommentsLonghorn will be easier to use, more secure, and less costly to manage, execs insist. Also, Microsoft previews Longhorn search: Virtual folders, stacking and a List Pane.About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 41 Comments 2005-04-19 6:28 pm I thought this idea has come and gone already? Though a small GNU/Linux distro, BeatrIX, is barking up the same tree. 2005-04-19 6:49 pm You posted to the wrong thread! Oops! But Microsoft touting “secure startup” for laptops that doesn’t allow someone to load something onto the computer to analyze the disk? Come on! How are they going to prevent all but the lazy from booting up with another device and munching through that disk? Unless we’re to believe that the entire volume is encrypted, all it would take is someone booting off an external device (USB, SCSI, etc.), perhaps with a different OS. After all, I’ve used BeOS to rescue data before, and I know other OS’s can access the data just as well.And even if that laptop doesn’t support booting from external drives or devices, there’s nothing to prevent someone from removing the drive from the laptop and adding it to another computer: that’s what I’d prefer to do anyway, to ensure I don’t run the risk of damaging data. Silly Microsoft! (/me looks over shoulder, hoping nobody is spying on me: it’s dangerous living less than 5 miles from their headquarters! :0) 2005-04-19 6:52 pm Every M$ operating system is the most secure/most stable/easiest to use/least costly one they have ever created. Big deal. IMHO they release beta-quality software to the public and charge money for it. IMHO no M$ operating system is worth looking at until after SP1. But hey, a big, well-greased hype machine has to earn its keep somehow. All of this “unveiling” and “previewing” and “sneak-peeking” is nothing more than mass psychology calculated to get Pavlov’s dogs drooling for their next effort at an OS.Wake me when SP2 is ready. 2005-04-19 7:13 pm Good point. I remember seeing advertising about the 10 reasons to get Windows 95 and they said there would be no more crashes and it would be easier to use. Virtually every Windows release says it is more stable and easy than the last. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are not, but usually the improvements are minute. I really would like to see them to create a new FS with more advanced indexing, but Longhorn apparently won’t have that. 2005-04-19 7:34 pm “[…]search function will include a preview window where users can view and cut-and-paste content without opening the file”Now I can sense torrents of exploits using this new wonderful feature :-> 2005-04-19 7:45 pm didn’t Apple already patent this years ago? 2005-04-19 7:54 pm I just jumped when I saw this in the interview:Longhorn will also have a feature designed to protect data on a PC. “We will have something called secure startup where if you lose your laptop it won’t make a difference because somebody can’t load another system on there to analyse your hard disk,” Allchin said.This is clearly an attempt to neutralize knoppix, and every livecd out there that would be able to rescue that crashed windows install! 2005-04-19 7:55 pm It’s just to bad or good that MS has lifted most of it’s news longhorn features from OS X.. http://bitsofnews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=869I’m not here to flame, but i think it’s a bit sad that MS just can’t be first at anything. 2005-04-19 7:57 pm Longhorn will be easier to use, more secure, and less costly to manage, execs insist. Then why is MSFT spending millions on marketing WinXP SP2 if Longhorn has all the answers? Why would someone spend ten’s of thousands on winXP licenses today then turn around in two years to buy ten’s of thousands of Longhorn licenses?Sounds like very mutually exclusive marketing campaigns going on.Sure there are still people running win95(My work) of course we don’t need to update, because the Novell netware servers never crashes.(years between reboots) but we aren’t going to update to XP because it won’t do anything but cost us money. 2005-04-19 8:22 pm Last year, at Apple Expo in Paris, I was able to see Tiger and try/show some new features. Is Microsoft doing the same with the next windows version ? 2005-04-19 8:42 pm Why would someone spend tens of thousands on winXP licenses today then turn around in two years to buy ten’s of thousands of Longhorn licenses?You just answered your own question. 2005-04-19 8:54 pm Can someone enlighten me? If I lose my laptop, then the person who “ends up” with it can’t boot the OS? Presumably this means a password system at the bios level? If that’s the case, and I don’t lose my laptop, but just can’t boot it due to some corruption, am I never going to be able to recover my data? Or can this be overridden by someone with the “master password”? Or heaven forbid, could I take the drive out of the laptop, and attach it to another system, and read the data from there? I’m not sure I see how this works.Matt 2005-04-19 9:05 pm They (MS) need “news” to keep the MS spirit going and they need YOU to enjoy it or hate it. It’s all in the game. 2005-04-19 9:38 pm It sounds like they ripped off/licensed PC Guardian. 2005-04-19 10:03 pm The only announcements MS have made so far show that Longhorn will have exactly the same features Panther and Jaguar have.After a recent hardware crash (motherboard failure) w/ a failly highend system (Athlon 64 w/ 1 GIG RAM), I’m re-evaluating my need for MS software and PC hardware. The faster system doesn’t do squat for useability in my case – and I’m finding more and more that Windows XP – and with announcements of Longhorn, that both are seriously lacking in useability features.Since I’ll still be able to sell my PC for some money – once the mobo is replaced, I’m seriously considering buying a Mac. The only problem for me is the money: I’m a university student working part-time. Looking in the long-term, Longhorn doesn’t really offer me much and it won’t be worth investing the money into it. 2005-04-19 10:11 pm All the hype and the waiting Longhorn better be revolutionary and not a candy land skinned Windows 2000. I like Micrsoft OS’es but XP was not any kind of serious improvement from 2000 like Win95 was to 2000. Hopefully they come through with something great. 2005-04-19 10:12 pm I read an article today about Microsoft selling licenses for software that’s not released, and you get a beta in the meantime (I think that’s how it worked). 2005-04-19 11:17 pm Longhorn sounds less and less enticing as days go by. I think I am gonna stick with my XP setup and wait and pray good old Steve Jobs releases Mac OS X for x86 hardware….YAY! Do you honestly think M$ would still be making money if that ever happened?! 2005-04-19 11:20 pm God this forum has gone downhill. People asking why should I buy XP now when Longhorn is out in 2 years. What the? Windows XP was no improvement over 2000. Helloooooooo. Microsoft make a feature that if your laptop is stolen your data is safe. Some genius thinks this is an obvious attack on linux. Come on.Are there any people with anything positive to say. If MS came out tomorrow and said that the new Windows was going to be 100% secure, hackproof, 10 times faster and could do your housework we’d still get the usual suspects coming out with the same old tired rants. 2005-04-19 11:45 pm “If MS came out tomorrow and said that the new Windows was going to be 100% secure, hackproof, 10 times faster and could do your housework we’d still get the usual suspects coming out with the same old tired rants.”Of course we would. Its Microsoft so obviously everything they do is crap. They could make pencils and people would claim that their pencils didnt write well or that your writing would suddenly dissapear after writing something down. And lets not even get into the double standards against the company… 2005-04-19 11:57 pm OK… I’ll bite.. What haven’t they overhyped and under delivered on? 2005-04-20 1:02 am “Do you honestly think M$ would still be making money if that ever happened?!”Yes, they would. I don’t think that OS X on x86 would be nearly as successful as a lot of people think. Why? No MS Office. 2005-04-20 2:48 am The data on a stolen laptop is safe if an encrypted filesystem is used. This can be done, and often is, with many operating systems.Prevention of booting/installation of another OS can also protect your data from a thief. It may also protect Microsoft from the installation of another OS by the owner. Microsoft has a long history of ‘accidental’ side effects that just happen to preclude competition.So whose interests are being protected?Security has been used as an excuse to get get people to act against their own interests for millenia. Politicians and governments have been the most frequent abusers of the security excuse, but it would be naive to leave out corporations or other powerful interests. Security is a legitimate concern, but it’s always a good idea to be skeptical of measures promoted in the name of security. 2005-04-20 3:30 am “Yes, they would. I don’t think that OS X on x86 would be nearly as successful as a lot of people think. Why? No MS Office.”Are you serious! Or maybe you have not been living in our planet for quite a long time!!!!! Of course that MS office is available on MacOsX, the last version was just introduced last year!! Wake up!!! 2005-04-20 3:57 am Its really striking to see how Microsoft can not come up with their own design ideas, so that they have to look somewhere else to get their os done. And we know where they are looking, isnt’it?The search feature in Longhorn seems so somilar in the implementation and design, until the user interface to Toger that its inpossible to deny that they copy a lot the work of Apple, their virtual folders, the search field in Explorer, etc, look similar to what Apple has done with their smart folders, and Spotlight in the finder. That’s even shocking……What they call stacks is sinply what Apple has invented as Piles, sure Apple is not using it yet (maybe they will never do!!!), but the principle is exactly the same, Microsoft just took the idea of the patent filled by apple.I am just waiting to see how they will copy Dashboard, Expose, etc….Its amazing to see a big compagny like microsoft with so much ressources that is unable to come up with their own ideas and approach. They simply take what the others are doing, change it a little bit if they can, or simply implement it as it is. Shame on you Microsoft….. 2005-04-20 3:59 am “Longhorn will also have a feature designed to protect data on a PC. “We will have something called secure startup where if you lose your laptop it won’t make a difference because somebody can’t load another system on there to analyse your hard disk,” Allchin said. “All you have to do is replace the harddrive. 2005-04-20 4:11 am “Are you serious! Or maybe you have not been living in our planet for quite a long time!!!!! Of course that MS office is available on MacOsX, the last version was just introduced last year!! Wake up!!!”Yeah, it’s built for PPC, Einstein. And the way I see it, there is not a snowball’s chance in hell MS is going to port it to OSX/x86 if that ever comes out. They are not stupid, they aren’t going to release something that won’t improve Office sales and will eat into Windows sales. 2005-04-20 5:10 am Replacing the hard drive might not be enough, if the Trusted Computing hardware locks the motherboard. Read up on Trusted Computing; it goes way beyond BIOS passwords or disk encryption.I would welcome hardware security measures IF the owner is in control. The essence of Trusted Computing is that the owner isn’t trusted, but that the computer maker is. I might tolerate that for something that I rented or leased, but it makes a mockery of ownership. If Sony wants to verify that I have their permission before playing a Sony movie on my computer, then they can loan me a computer. If I spend my own money on a computer, then it better do what I want without asking anyone else for permission. That includes installing software not approved by Microsoft and playing movies and music not approved by RIAA/MPAA members. I bought, not leased, my DVDs and CDs, and I’ll play them on any device that I wish to. Copyright law allows this, and I will fight any attempt to restrict the use of copyrighted material to approved devices. 2005-04-20 5:52 am I am long past giving MS the benefit of the doubt. Until MS actually delivers something (even a beta that works), I am extremely sceptical. Of course, MS execeutives will say that their new OS is the best ever, but experience says otherwise. We also heard that features were being axed (WinFS, chop!), so MS appears to be having serious problems. Mac OS X will be out by the end of April, and it already has most of what Longhorn is supposed to have in a year. 2005-04-20 6:38 am And the way I see it, there is not a snowball’s chance in hell MS is going to port it to OSX/x86 if that ever comes out. They are not stupid, they aren’t going to release something that won’t improve Office sales and will eat into Windows sales.I don’t think it necessarily matters what platform Microsoft is selling Office to. I mean, they make money either way. Office costs a lot more than Windows – especially for the Mac – so they sure make they’re money regardless. Hell, they already sell Windows to Mac users through Virtual PC anyway. I guess the point is that because Microsoft also has a monopoly on office productivity software they really wouldn’t be canabalizing much – if anything – in sales by continuing to offer their products to a OS X/x86 version.It would probably also depend on how OS X was marketed to the x86 world and whether it would be a threat – like OS X for all x86 hardware. I mean, if it was just special hardware that OS X would run on, then its really no different than OS X/PPC.Of course, OS X won’t likely be ported ever so its really pretty moot.Back on topic, I’ll certainly be interested to see Longhorn and what features finally are included. Mostly, XP has been a step better for the platform. 2005-04-20 6:59 am You do realize that most of the features in OS X and in fact, other OSes, that you’re accusing of being ‘lifted’ by MS for Longhorn have actually already existed in Windows since Win2k, and various Windows and Office updates and extensions provided by MS long before OS X was released? 2005-04-20 7:49 am “You do realize that most of the features in OS X and in fact, other OSes, that you’re accusing of being ‘lifted’ by MS for Longhorn have actually already existed in Windows since Win2k, and various Windows and Office updates and extensions provided by MS long before OS X was released?Report abuse”Ohhh, really? So tell which one…..Search? Nooooo, it really suck on windows….Ohhh maybe compositing engine and hardware graphics accelaration? No the graphical layer of windows is dam old and sucks…..Oh maybe build in sync features? No neither. windows still does not propose a robust sync engine.Expose? Oh well try to find it in windows.Maybe, Allchin was talking about a feature of Longhorn which allow the user to protect their data with 128 bit encryption, useful for laptops. right? Well i guess that the guys in Redmond had a look in Panther and FileVault….And i can go on if you want….. 2005-04-20 8:25 am “Search? Nooooo, it really suck on windows…. ”Turn on file indexing. Existed in NT4.“Ohhh maybe compositing engine and hardware graphics accelaration? ”Only needed for 2D if your CPU clock speeds are lacking … *cough* … mac.“Expose? Oh well try to find it in windows. ”I can’t count how many clones there are for this for windows“128 bit encryption, useful for laptops”EFS, Existed in Windows 2000.“And i can go on if you want…..”Please do! Sad fact is, there is nothing you can do on a Mac that I can’t do on a PC software wise. I have just bought a 500Mhz iBook from eBay, however but this was mainly because their cheap, have 6hours battery life and the sleep/awaken speed is awesome 2005-04-20 8:32 am To prevent growing interest in Apple computers and operational systems. iPod already made it’s way to non-Apple users, so they are looking for something more what can Apple give them…So Microsoft is trying to pull PR stunt here. But I guess such varporware marketing is rather risky for them. Because there is something to compare with – Apple with OS X. 2005-04-20 9:29 am “Turn on file indexing. Existed in NT4.”Come one don’t talk about something which is unsuable. Search is windows suck, that is, you can not deny it, just try on winxp. I can also say that volume indexing existed since macOs9, but the search capabilities can not be compared with what Spotloght provides.“Only needed for 2D if your CPU clock speeds are lacking … *cough* … mac. ”You just say a meaningless thing because you dont really know what to say. I am talking about compositing, vector graphics, PDF based graphics engine built is osx. Compare to windows, it still has a windowing engine back to win95. And if you think that hardware accelaration is only for cpu lacking clock speeds, tell me why Mircosoft is also trying to make a harware accelarated graphical engine. Ah yes go have a look to CoreImage and CoreVieo, you may learn what it can be used to.“I can’t count how many clones there are for this for windows ”Yes copies of Expose that suck!!! You are great,….“EFS, Existed in Windows 2000. ”It works so well that mircosoft has to redesign it again in Longhorn….“Please do! Sad fact is, there is nothing you can do on a Mac that I can’t do on a PC software wise. I have just bought a 500Mhz iBook from eBay, however but this was mainly because their cheap, have 6hours battery life and the sleep/awaken speed is awesome ”I am not talking about what you can do or not with a pc or a mac. I am talking about how Microsoft can not come with their own approach, and they have to be close to what someone else is doing…. 2005-04-20 11:59 am Sorry Dave, but your rebuttal was extremely weak. Yes file search has been around for 20 years, but tell me the last time you’ve waited for that dog to find a file for you in windows. IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. You know why? because content search in windows sucks. Hakime has most of it covered, but i just wanted to reiterate that when you post junk, people will see it for what it is. You’re not fooling anyone. We all have a copy of windows, even mac users. 2005-04-20 1:21 pm extensions provided by MS long before OS X was released?Varies on your mileage.But i think most (non corporate) users would see anually added features like winfs etc.Why doesn’t MS separate between a consumer XP and corporate XP?Corporate goes for stability and gets only buxfixes and security updates whereas consumer gets extra features (hopefully something more meaningfull than mediaplayer skins and desktop themes),like Winfs,. 2005-04-20 6:22 pm “Are there any people with anything positive to say. If MS came out tomorrow and said that the new Windows was going to be 100% secure, hackproof, 10 times faster and could do your housework we’d still get the usual suspects coming out with the same old tired rants.”Awww, poor Microsoft. It’s so sad how everybody picks on them. Don’t forget to get a “Mean People Suck” bumper sticker next time you’re at Walmart. 2005-04-20 7:26 pm none of this is new, or even remotely new. the vast majority of it is basic features of a metadata based system (for example, gmail or itunes). expect at least this stuff in upcomming versions of osx. to their credit, microsoft is starting to explore new ways of managing files right off the bat, tiger doesnt come close to leveraging the possibilities. however, as longhorn is still vaporware and tiger has gone gold, theres still a chance we’ll see a more complete leveraging of spotlight before longhorn drops.but keep in mind, “virtual folders” have been around on other platforms for a long time now, the tog (one of the founders of HCI, and ex czar of design at apple) has been talking about document stacking for a LONG time now, and the list pane doesnt sound particularily spectacular, at least from the description. what i am waiting for is for the file name to only be the primary identifier (not the only identifier the way it is on non-apple platforms), file paths to be invisible to the user from a gui perspective, and a complete transition from “filing” to “searching” (like gmail). 2005-04-20 9:34 pm “”Turn on file indexing. Existed in NT4.”Come one don’t talk about something which is unsuable. Search is windows suck, that is, you can not deny it, just try on winxp. I can also say that volume indexing existed since macOs9, but the search capabilities can not be compared with what Spotloght provides.”completely agree… indexing not only calls home to microsoft, if it finds something questionable it HOSES your hard drive. I’ve seen it happen on mutliple XP boxes, that as soon as indexing comes across something microsoft doesn’t like your hard drive starts making this GAWD awful chunking sound. chkdisk finds nothing and defrag doesn’t get rid of it… indexing is doing SOMETHING to the drive.The only way to stop it is to reinstall windows and immediately turn off indexing.If you want TRUE journaling you have to use a non-microsoft FS like ReiserFS V3 (V4 is not stable enough yet) HFS (osx?) or EXT3. All of these don’t require defrags. we’ll see if that will be the case with winfs (I doubt it personally!)All of these are FAR superior to NTFS and will be superior to winfs. How do I know that? becuase winfs will rely on trusted computing which is to say the least… BAD.“none of this is new, or even remotely new.”completely agree. Microsoft is once again taking other people’s products renaming them and slightly changing them then selling it as their own product.You don’t really think NT = “new technology” do you? it’s to mock “novell technology” because they STOLE a sh** load of features from novells server OS. 2005-04-21 10:51 am “But Microsoft touting “secure startup” for laptops that doesn’t allow someone to load something onto the computer to analyze the disk? Come on! How are they going to prevent all but the lazy from booting up with another device and munching through that disk? Unless we’re to believe that the entire volume is encrypted, all it would take is someone booting off an external device (USB, SCSI, etc.), perhaps with a different OS. After all, I’ve used BeOS to rescue data before, and I know other OS’s can access the data just as well.”hmmm… circumventing a patented security system… with the new DMCA n’ all – it sound a little illegal to me to go and circumvent MSs patented security systems no matter how flawed they are and no matter whos machine you are doing it on.