Microsoft’s Dr. Watson error-reporting tool will undergo a significant makeover in Longhorn, but changes in the way program crash data is collected and transmitted have raised eyebrows among privacy rights advocates. Also, the next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn, will feature support for RAW uncompressed digital camera images–which could change the way people view and edit photos.
Dr. Watson’s Longhorn Makeover Raises Eyebrows
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I think you can just turn off any error-reporting you want in the next version, just like you can in XP right now. As long as you have control over what is sent and what isen’t, and how much if anything is sent back to MS then I don’t have a problem with this at all.
Paying for software should automatically raise the bar on Q&A testing; especially considering the price we have to shell out for each copy of Windows. If they want us to pay through the nose for their product, then they can pay more people to test their products more thoroughly. I’m just sick of being a ‘beta’ tester for software that’s sold as release quality.
If we had a penny refunded to us for every crash/bug report Windows made, buying the software would be like buying a winning lottery ticket.
Linux is in a perpetual beta stage as far as I’m concerned — nothing is ever “complete”,
Sadly, you’re right. Linux, and all the associated software jampacked into common distributions, is constantly being updated, new features are constantly added, and there’s always more optimization. But that’s part of the charm.
If you run Linux on a server, you find a nice stable version of your kernel, your libraries, and your apps, and run with it. Don’t upgrade unless there’s a major security issue or a new feature you MUST have. On your desktop, it’s always in flux because you get new features practically as they leave the developer’s compiler.
With Windows, I EXPECT rock solid because I paid for it. With XP and 2003, I pretty much get that. My Linux box is much more stable, but the graphical environment isn’t.
I guess it’s really a choice the tradeoff between stable and tested versus latest & greatest.
And here we have it, folks: look at the difference in replies between Gus and Adam. Gus decides to attack me and my knowledge (typical of Linux fan boys when you attack their precious OS), while Adam admits that I’m right in some cases, but offers his opinion on when it’s not a problem.
Thank you, Adam. Gus, FOAD.
Gus: I’ve been using Linux since 1999. I’ve experienced a wonderful share of GUI-related crashes. Don’t try to tell me that KDE/GNOME are as stable as Windows and its UI.
Adam: Good point about the servers. The problem there, though, is that sometimes that small “security fix” is really just a new version with extra (broken?) features/incompatibilities/requiring library upgrades. Most of the time this isn’t the case, but I’ve experienced my share of frustrations with such things.
You’re right about Windows, too. I paid for it, and I expect rock-solid stability. I get rock-solid stability, and I’m quite happy with that. Linux itself is extraordinarily stable as well — but X/KDE/GNOME are quite lacking.
Get some quality hardware then, yes? I have yet to experience an application crash, let alone a BSoD, on any computer running XP that has all of its hardware in order. Both my work and home computers regularily run for 1-2 months before I reboot for a driver upgrade or some such thing.
If you have shitty hardware, then yeah, you’ll experience crashes, regardless of the OS.
eWeek needs to have some things explained to it. The error reporting system that Microsoft has built is intended to improve application and driver quality, not to identify the user or keep him informed.
Dr. Watson today sends error reports to Microsoft. Microsoft in turn provides driver-quality reports to Dell and others. This in turn drives devices with bad drivers out of the market. Microsoft is extending this system to include applications, so that application publishers and OEMs get similar reports. The effect is improved drivers and applications.
Microsoft-bashing is getting pretty ridiculous IMO. The Longhorn/.NET “scoop” is a good example of the half-baked articles surfacing. Anyone that thinks that MS is abandoning .NET is plain stupid.
If you are still complaining about Windows stability, you need to take a fresh look at XP because your gray hair is showing. XP is a stellar product, period. Windows Server 2003 is even better. Now shut up until you work with them!
Linux rocks too BTW. The competition between the two is bringing out the best in MS.
one may be right that windows-xp ist rock solid.
but that’s only true if you’re handling it right.
that means don’t install any strange programs, don’t try much shareware, don’t …, don’t …
if you are a usual joe sixpack your windows system isn’t usable after about a year.
so they (let it) reinstall every year by a friend.
it is always the same: look how great my windows is, but after some time it is shitty and one doesn’t blame the os but the user for it…
Yeah, that’s true. Generally, if you avoid spyware + shitty drivers, Windows stays stable and snappy.
It’s not until you put it in the hands of a 13 year old girl or a Joe Sixpack that it goes to hell. My family’s computers all run well — five-minute lessons were all that was needed.
Actually, most of the major open source software have release minor point patch releases for small security fixes, just like major proprietary software. Many OSS groups are good enough to backport these fixes to the older versions too. Well, the Apache project may have no choice, as Apache 1.3.x is still the most widely used web server on the internet, I think. Point is, they are NOT completely new versions, and the only changes are usualy to fix what is broken. Sometimes, fixing particularly nasty bugs or design flaws means breaking a lot of stuff and possibly adding a new feature or two, but this is usual. Heard of a little thing called “Windows XP Service Pack 2”? Mozilla Firefox has done it too.
Regardless of vendor, you can get rock solid stability *from the OS* if you use “good” hardware (shop around, read reviews), stable drivers (MS has the WHQL), and don’t hack around underneath unless you know what you’re doing.
MS is just trying to do a better job of fixing their own OS with their improved tool. Despite what people think, they would like to create an OS that can stand shoulder to shoulder with the VMS’es and the QNX’es of the world, while offering all the Windows features they don’t have. Then they could sell it for more money. (-:
The people worried about privacy make good points. Opt-in and opt-out should be as easy and straightforward as possible. ESPECIALLY knowing that some data will be shared with 3rd parties. I mean, it’s harsh enough having to trust ONE company with my data, but 3 or more? Sure, the likelihood of anything sensitive being sent is slim. It’s still possible, and I’d like to still be able to choose what data is sent even if I do opt-in.
–JM
I’ll have to agree, Windows XP (and Server 2003) is a very stable system. Most of the crashes I’ve dealt with where fault of the drivers or software.
My biggest issues with Windows would be the need to reboot after every little change (ok, I don’t *need* to reboot for each change, but windows tells me I do) I can update my linux systems without a reboot (in most cases).
Linux has come a long way from where it used to be, but outside of the server realm its still not quite to where windows or OSX are. (and yes I’ve used linux recently)
Ive had my shair of crashes over the years.
Both Windows crashes and Linux crashes.
For windows its:
a) HardLock, not BSOD, the software/OS lockes up the hardware
b) good old BSOD that no one can understand, or reboots to fast to see the file name
c) The program/OS just dies/reboots with no errors
And you have to love thouse driver updates that go bad.
For Linux its:
a) Kernel level Seg Fault, bad memory or hardware, might be drivers
b) App Seg Fault, must be a very heavy app, or beta.
c) Just crashes/unloads it self, sometimes a debug msg, or in the syslog
Ill tell you one thing, Ive had alot fewer crashes in Linux then windows. I even run bleading edge software in Linux.
You have a hell of alot better chance of figuring out a crash in linux then windows.
>>>>Oh, and don’t tell me that you’re not a beta tester for Linux software. Linux is in a perpetual beta stage as far as I’m concerned — nothing is ever “complete”<<<<
Actually, I use OSX. I paid for it, and it works. I haven’t had a single second of downtime since buying the box, nor have I had to file a “bug report.” The point of my rant was that Windows is (and has always been) overpriced for what you get: swiss cheese.
Nowhere in my previous post did I even mention Linux. That was your attribution and assumption. To respond, however, I wouldn’t expect production-quality software in Linux because I haven’t paid anyone for it.
Yet, there are some production-quality OSS products… and a large portion of the Internet is reliably sustained by them. On this end, the “value” of OSS outweighs Windows by far.
booyakasha
In Linux, I’ve easily crashed my Ubuntu 5.04 by simply dragging a file onto the Gpilot icon. It recursively filled muyentire harddrive with its contents.
In my case however, Windows crashed more and in more different ways. The last time I’ve seen the BSOD on a WinXP was just three days ago (haven’t seen the kernel panic message except once when my harddrive broke down).
Linux has WORSE hardware & *some* software support (no decent Autocad clone, and Wine is IMHO total crap when it comes to desktop software support), it’s harder to be configured by a newbie (however, .config files are WAY better than the registry). On my system I couldn’t connect a Windows Mobile device with Windows XP wia Bluetooth: when I managed to make it work, the OS thought it was smarter than me and screwed everything up. The Windows license is Draconian while Linux doesn’t have a unified packaging system.
Anyway, both Linux and Windows have the right to exist as long as people use them. Don’t spend time in flamewars; instead, do things from which people will benefit. You can’t convince a zealot or a fanboy that he/she is wrong, it will only make him/her more distant from your point of view.
Peace.
Linux user since 2002; deleted Windows from my harddrive in January 2005
Typing this from a Debian box which dual boots with XP. I simply *hate* the way XP works. I’ve come to love my workspaces dearly, XP simply feels lacking. I used to be very comfortable working in Windows 2000 but nowadays I’m in Linux 99% of the time. I’ll ditch Windows as soon as I don’t need it anymore to check how websites I build render in IE, which is a royal pain in the ass excuse for a browser anyway.
Paying for software should automatically raise the bar on Q&A testing; especially considering the price we have to shell out for each copy of Windows.
Humm, about $100 for something that cost millions (billions?) to create sounds like a good deal to me. Would you spend $500,000,000.00 to write me a program and give it to me for $5? I’m sure you wouldn’t, and if you would, please post your e-mail so I can get you busy quickly. This is just another open source advocate hypocritic statement.
If they want us to pay through the nose for their product, then they can pay more people to test their products more thoroughly. I’m just sick of being a ‘beta’ tester for software that’s sold as release quality.
Like Linux is unbreakable. I’ve crashed it just installing it! I’ve never had a Linux distribution install and work the first time. I’ve NEVEr had Windows NOT install and work the first time. I have problems with Linux constantly, never have got sound to work, even following the “how-to”. Using what I make at work for a rough estimate of what my time is worth, scouring the web for hints on how-to do something in LinSux costs me far more than shelling out a pittance for something that “just works”.
If we had a penny refunded to us for every crash/bug report Windows made, buying the software would be like buying a winning lottery ticket.
If Linux refunded me for my time figuring out how to set the stupid thing up, I’m join you in your lottery winning tax bracket.
The_Raven
“I get rock-solid stability”
You’ve got to be kidding. There is nothing rock-solid about Windows XP.
As someone else said, “then you just don’t know how to use it”. Linux people say that to people who complain about Linux, so turn-about is fair play. Windows works for me nearly perfectly, with some problems since software is never perfect (another statement Linux people say about their software when it doesn’t work, but forget that simple fact when whining about Windows).
LOL ya, go to install Windows XP Pro on my computer, both NIC’s dont work, Sound doesnt work, and best yet, I had to use another computer to put my SATA drivers on a floppy for it to even install.
Yep, “just works”.
All my Linux Live CD’s work.
In Linux, I’ve easily crashed my Ubuntu 5.04 by simply dragging a file onto the Gpilot icon. It recursively filled muyentire harddrive with its contents.
You speak about Ubuntu, not other Linux distros as I use Fedora Core 4 Test 3. Perhaps it has something to do with the software itself.
Linux has WORSE hardware & *some* software support (no decent Autocad clone, and Wine is IMHO total crap when it comes to desktop software support), it’s harder to be configured by a newbie (however, .config files are WAY better than the registry).
Broad generalization. Once again, it depends of the distro you use. Hardware side, Linux HAS the largest support because Linux kernel can be run on any system from supercomputer(3/4 of top 500 supercomputers use Linux) to wrist watch. As for emulator, try Qemu instead http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/
Blame your motherboard manufacturer for not providing a SATA driver disk, like 99% of other manufacturers do. As for sound and NICs … how can you expect XP to support certain devices out of the box if they were manufactured AFTER XP’s release?
Try a LiveCD from 2001 and then try to tell me that it still detects all of that stuff.
XP Pro SP2, how old is SP2?
How much space does NIC drivers take up in the linux kernel?
I mean come on, they cant setup a driver repository that the install can connect to? Where talking about M$ here, they could do so much better when it comes to the install, and other things, but im not going to get into that.
SP2 was more of a security update than anything else. Microsoft did not supplement the usual set of XP-provided drivers. That’s beside the point, though. It’s clear as day to everyone that to take the best advantage of your hardware, you go get the latest driver from the manufacturer, rather than using the XP drivers. Those are just there for basic functionality for people who don’t care/don’t know better.
As for connecting to a driver repository … HTF are you supposed to do such a thing if YOUR NIC ISN’T WORKING YET?
this bit from the RAW article:
“Weisberg said Windows users will be able to view, preview and print raw data, but not edit it. The download will be ready in a few weeks, he said.”
Ok, maybe just a bad quote but print RAW data…this guy needs to get a clue. RAW data is straight from the sensor in a digital camera and you need to do some processing on it BEFORE it goes near a printer. You cannot (or more imporantly should not) edit the RAW data as it is the digital negative, just process it into a jpg or tif format ready for printing.
You can already thumbnail RAW images in Windows Explorer today and it looks like that is getting an upgrade for XP, so Longhorn gives you what exactly???
You’re kidding right? Pro-E isn’t good enough for you
. Autocad is a cheap knock-off (no seriously it is cheap in comparison and it is a knock-off).
“Will feature support for RAW uncompressed digital camera images” oh my God! Wow how great is that! I tell you Microsoft is on the ball! Wow! Unbelievable! They are the best!
Humm, about $100 for something that cost millions (billions?) to create sounds like a good deal to me.
I don’t think you have the slightest idea about how the economy works.
Would you spend $500,000,000.00 to write me a program and give it to me for $5?
Of course, if I can also sell it to a couple million other people for $5 each then I’m happy to do just that.
Using what I make at work for a rough estimate of what my time is worth, scouring the web for hints on how-to do something in LinSux costs me far more than shelling out a pittance for something that “just works”.
This argument is not entirely correct. Just because you make $X/hour at work doesn’t mean that your time is worth that much. Your time AT WORK is worth that amount, so if you do not have any Linux experience, it is probably not a good idea to spend time at work trying to set it up. However, you can’t extrapolate that to say that all your time is worth that amount. Oh my god what are you doing posting useless comments on this message board if your time is worth so much?
The old adage of “Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing” is so blatantly false and a stupid argument.
Yes it takes me more time to set up Linux the way I like it than it does to install windows. But then again, once it’s installed, I never have to worry about it. All updates are handled automatically for all applications, the system doesn’t slow down and fill with crap, there are actual standards for applications that are followed, the GUI has far more advanced features that can only be accomplished with hacks in Windows..
I use windows a lot, in fact right now, and its a nice OS.. But people have to realize that their experience with soemthing is not the final word. Some people have tons of trouble with Linux and none with Windows, and some people have the exact opposite experience. This is such a basic concept that I’m continually amazed at people writing posts along the lines of “NOOO!!! You’re fucking lying!! I never get viruses on Windows! You’re just too dumb to use it!”
Chill out, recognize others have different and equally valid opinions.
As for connecting to a driver repository … HTF are you supposed to do such a thing if YOUR NIC ISN’T WORKING YET?
Blame your hardware vendor for NOT SUPPLYING DRIVERS.
I live in Russia, where ANY piece of software can be freely bought (pirated) for $2.5 per CD and about $9.5 per DVD. So WinXP PRO costs less than Mandrake 🙂
Yes, windows xp is quite solid, and many of the apps are solid enough (firefox and thunderbird might be the recent exceptions ;D).
And indeed yes, much of the oss isn’t stable at all, in kde/gnome just look at quite recently kopete and nautilus. Most recent version of kde don’t look further than amarok.
Skype kills my xp BAD, but then my hardware is quite unstable with the correct 133mhz fsb, so it might be a combination.
I’ve noticed that quite a few of you who claim that Linux is unstable got replies like “Uh-huh, but that’s because YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO RUN IT!” back at you.
I use Linux, XP and OS X desktops daily and i’ve got to say that i’m amazed over the fact that these, apparently, Linux-savvy guys manage to screw their Windows boxes over so bad that they get unstable.
I think i’ve had to force-reboot my XP boxes like 1-2 times in 2-3 years. How about that. All i do is to make sure the apps i run are decent and i keep it virus/trojan free. As far as application stability goes i have a whole lot more problems with Linux programs than Windows apps.
But they are free, and they’re often marked as beta so i let them get away with it, which i wouldn’t with something i’ve paid money for.
Is it simply so, that the guys who run Linux and take extreme care of their operating systems while running that, take absolutely no care about the OS when they’re running Windows? Running an unpatched XP-installation fresh out of the box without even a software firewall running?
Sorry to sound like a grumpy old fart, but man.. It sounds silly sometimes.
This argument is not entirely correct. Just because you make $X/hour at work doesn’t mean that your time is worth that much
if you think your personal time is worht LESS than your work time you realy need to get a life, myself, and most people i know consider personal time to be worth considerably more than work time
…Kodak, which got into a tiff over photo support in XP…
That’s punny! I wonder if it was on purpose.
Yep, it’s not. Hardware vendors fault.
This discussion has reduced to “who will use the word f*ck more”. This is supposed to be about Dr. Watson!
Every article which mentions Windows or Linux or any other OS always ends up in “Windows vs. Linux vs. Your_OS_Here”.
As long as Microsoft doesn’t do discrimination and Linux fans don’t troll the two OSes can coexist without *much* tension.
@ Finalzone
I’m content with my Linux distro, it can do whatever I want. However, because of the lack of major vendor support I can’t convince any of my family members to switch to Linux. I don’t want to be held responsible for the “Where’s my Photoshop gone?” stuff, and that’s why existing Windows users are hard to convince. This is also the reason why Microsoft can’t do a complete rewriting: instead of upgrading to an entirely new Windows version, users may consider using something alternative like MacOS. I have transferred my relatives to use Firefox & Thunderbird instead of Microsoft apps, and I think that if more such cross-platform killer-apps appear both the Windows and Linux community will benefit.
And about that Gpilot bug: I’ve had it on Fedora too, and BTW I think Ubuntu provides *nearly* unmodified packages (actually, you can download the *.diff files and see what exactly was changed).
Happy Ubuntu user since 2005
if you think your personal time is worht LESS than your work time you realy need to get a life, myself, and most people i know consider personal time to be worth considerably more than work time
It is worth less if you’re talking on a monetary basis. You are not making that $X/hour in your leisure time, so your time is not worth that amount. Subjectively, it may be worth more (because it is more enjoyable), but from a purely financial basis, it’s worth less.
Is this the true raw format from the colour matrix of the camera as it comes off the ADCs or is it still converted to a RGB matrix?
If I understand digital camera’s design properly it looks like there is still a little more visual information that can be squeezed out of a digital camera’s spanshots if you can get your hands on the real raw data.
Sorry, I should have read both articles first.
Yes, they are talking about the true RAW format.
Actually, every camera manufacturer has its own RAW format. It only seems that Microsoft will either be making contracts with each camera maker, or, in my opinion more realistic, create a compability layer simular to the Scanning & Digital Camera Wizard (or whatever it’s called).
If you have shitty hardware, then yeah, you’ll experience crashes, regardless of the OS.
—————————————-
No you wont. Anything that gets screwed up in Windows is Microsoft’s fault. Any problems in Linux, Mac OSX, etc. are the fault of the user not knowing the OS.
Ohhh right — of course. The fact that Linux is perfect fled my mind for a second. I apologize.