Never let it be said that Sun Microsystems, who are promoting their new Opteron-based “Galaxy” server line, are subtle. A recent post to the Sun website displays several “rejected” ads. Says the website, “At Sun, we’re the radical engineers that build ‘ass-whoopin’ technology – we’re not Miss Manners and we never want to be.” Ads that did make the cut were revealed as well.
Sun’s Sense of Humor
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Adam Scheinberg
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Only in a perfect world would a company be able to get away with such ads (though… out of the 4 rejects only one of them seemed any good)
Mock-up some ads that really slap the competition in the face with their catchy headlines and then put them up on some not-directly-visible spot on the internet – pretending the ads underwent some rejecetion-process and aren’t intended for publich consumption – all while having some employees “leak” the URL to sites like /. & Co so in the end the potential customers and “decision-makers” see them (and their included messeage) after all. Nice new tactics Sun
In fairness, I don’t think that anyone actually believes that they are truly rejected ads. No sane marketeer would actually submit them to an exec. But they are certainly humorous, and I think that’s how they were intended to be received.
In fairness, I don’t think that anyone actually believes that they are truly rejected ads. No sane marketeer would actually submit them to an exec.
Jonathan Schwartz takes more than a few pot-shots at Dell in his blog – http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/jonathan?entry=slow_hot_and_huge (he’s the President of Sun). I dunno if anyone would submit ads like that to executives, but damn, this guy has enough attitude to approve ’em.
I’ve had it with Dell. The one ad, “…it’s no suprise their name rhymes with hell,” is absolutely correct.
Back in 98, Dell was good. Good service, ok equipment, and the best prices. Now, the bean counters have killed good service and what little quality they and all your left with is crap that happens to be cheaper than most.
My company still buys them tho, cause you can transfer the warranties. But if I could, I would switch completely off them and go with anyone else, even HP/Compaq.
Funnny adds, but Dell has something that others don’t have; great Customer service. SUN service does not match Dell.
Jim
Funnny adds, but Dell has something that others don’t have; great Customer service.
Surely you jest. Not too terribly far from here is a call center where Dell used to outsource their customer support. I know close to two dozen people who worked under that particular, short lived contract.
Dell soon moved their CS to India, as the Indians worked cheaper than we do here, and becuse their English is only marginally better than our ability to speak their language, well, let’s just say that things went downhill from there.
Dell sucks period. Shitty hardware, terrible support, and nothing more for your money than many other alternatives out there.
Really? I called just to get part numbers to upgrade a PowerEdge 2650 (not mine) and after a 3 hour plus fiasco, being blown-off by one Dell Government rep I finally got in contact with a person from the Server Group who gave me the info. He sent me a feedback form which I gave him props for helping me, but bitch slapped Dell for their lame service and support.
I told them in my response that the information I was looking for should have been readily available on their web site (it’s not). If this was a Sun machine I could have found out what I needed to know in seconds at SunSolve! Needless to say I haven’t heard from them since, another example of the poor support.
Read an article not too long ago about Dell killing off their customer support to “save money”, I hope it’s working for them.
You must have somehow dropped in here from a parallel universe that is very, very different from ours.
To tell you the truth, the ads look like they were created in the early 70’s, especially the face smiling ad. It’s also so obvious that the rejected ads were just working jokes – reminds me of an advertising course that went a bit on the wayside. In fact, it’s like these “rejected” ads were done by students, not professionals.
IMHO Jb
In the meantime, the Slashdot community seems to be “appaled” and oh so “offended”. The hypocrsy just flows.
And you care? Why? Slashdot can stuff it.
Way to go guys! I hope Dell keeps scratching their collective butts as to why they wouln’t use AMD processors! I think they (Dell) could branch out into the industrial range & stove business with those “nice” P4’s.
There has been an incredible amount of buzz around Sun for the last few months. Has anyone noticed how they have been working both the technical and the PHB circles? Pretty interesting tactics I think. Not to mention they actually are doing some radical stuff, first in the software space and now in the hardware space.
It is really nice to see this kind of humour working its way back into society. During the 90’s, we have taken a zero tolerance policy on offending people, and there is a lot of stuff which is 100% humourous, but censored due to it being mildly offensive. I for one, will remember these sun ads, hell, even bookmark them(PS: I am an adblock nazi) because they are great ads, which I really dont mind seeing, or even showing people. Orange vonage ads with a monkey going trigger happy with the liquify tool in photoshop is another story though…cant stand those damn things, the only ad that manages to *piss* me off and are annoying as hell, and yes, I refuse to use vonage because of their retarded ads.
how much more expensive their equipment is than dells.
probably because they would be lying if they did that…
did you even check the pricing on these? you get way more machine, a better warranty program and superior support. thats the whole point….
2195 no OS RTA
You, as a company representative mock a company in public. You say their products suck on your official website. And then you try to show it off to the world as an example of your cranked humour. This ain’t funny dude, atleast not for the guys @ Dell for sure.
Personally, if I were @ Dell, I would still talk with a legal expert and figure out if anything can be done about this joke.
BTW it doesn’t make Dell look bad, but it surely brings down Sun’s reputation a bit…
Jeez…lighten up, man.
So now you can’t mention your competition in an ad? Then why do so many ads diss “the other guy?”
I don’t think it does anything but position Sun as a fun and hip company. And frankly, since the stuff they are churning out is garnering great reviews (I just got my Ultra20!), they are in a great position to form a new, hip image – especially with their new look, logo, and website.
What do microsoft’s ads say about linux? What do oracle’s ads say about microsoft? What do ibm’s ads say about oracle?
All of them say “our stuff rocks and our competitor’s stuff sucks!” They just say it nicely. Sun is just coming out and saying what they’re tech guys really feel about their servers. I think it’s funny.
By the way, IANAL but I don’t think it’s illegal for a company to mock another company. It’s telling lies about another company that’s illegal. None of Sun’s ads, as irreverent as they may be, are lies and so none of their ads are illegal. If Sun hurt your feelings, I’m pretty sure they’re not sorry.
Oh, this is funny. You’ve never really dealt with Sun in person, have you? Here’s a little tidbit for you: most tech guys hate Sun because of all their handwaving marketing BS. The majority of technical people that “like” Sun are the ones making money off “supporting” Sun systems. On the other hand, the ones actually having to build and implement systems on it would more likely love to throw out everything Sun at the first chance and replace it with anything else.
Hmm.. Not sure about the original post, but I have dealt with Sun. By far, Sun is the best Unix vendor I have worked with. And I work for a company with 5000+ Unix servers (HPUX, AIX, Solaris, Red Hat). I find that the people that dislike Sun that I work with tend to be the one’s who have the least experience with Sun. They are also the one’s going to lunch with the IBM rep every month…..
“BTW it doesn’t make Dell look bad, but it surely brings down Sun’s reputation a bit…”
Dell does a pretty fare job of making themselves look both bad and foolish on a daily basis. They don’t need any help with this.
Very few who deal with Dell server support are going to give glowing reviews.
” if I were @ Dell, I would still talk with a legal expert ”
” it doesn’t make Dell look bad,”
Why would Dell be taking legal action over something that doesn;t make them look bad? What would you be hoping for? Some kind of damages? You admit that there is no harm, yet wish to litigate as if there was?
OK, maybe you don;t think they are funny, but sueing over it after admitting no harm just makes you look like you have no sense of humour.
I’ve seen the “rhymes with hell” one used somewhere as an animated GIF. I think it was anandtech, but I haven’t seen it since. Made me raise an eyebrow and read the ad which is more than I usually do. It was the first time I saw a reference to Sun’s new servers a few hours before the tech sites started reporting them.
i think that would be cool
Then go get one… The Sun Ultra 20 is a smoking desktop machine and costs about $950.. I compared similar machines from IBM, Dell and HP and they were are more expensive than Sun’s.
Those ads are not funny. They are idiotic at best. How exactly does calling competitors crap make you look any better? It doesn’t. It only makes you look like an idiot.
I happened to read the following page last night and sadly it seems to be quite correct:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rogers/rogers171.html
“Those ads are not funny. They are idiotic at best. How exactly does calling competitors crap make you look any better? It doesn’t. It only makes you look like an idiot.”
well seeing as much of the IT nerd population out there think dells sucks too, it shows that people in sun: are aware and agree with them, have “the balls” to say it publicly, and makes them seem cool. all of which is a positive thing for them as its the IT nerds that go whine to their bosses and increase the likely hood of said boss buying them next upgrade cycle.
also most og them didn’t call dell crap they called them relative crap, same as Advil saying you have to take four times as much tylonel.
“I happened to read the following page last night and sadly it seems to be quite correct:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rogers/rogers171.html“
that man seems largely ignorant of japan, and the rest of the world.
I love them. Awesome ads
Humor is apparently dying though. I can’t get over all the comments on /. and here stating ” this is just poor taste! blahblahblah” .. jeez, lighten up.
You guys really need to look at the “Centerfold” ad (which was accepted!). Compared to the other ones, it’s much funnier. Of course, in order to “get it,” you’d have to have read Playboy before, and in particular their centerfold.
That’s one ‘sexy’ server!
Yes, because no one could ever get that joke without having first read Playboy…
Why not BUILD your own equipment? Any IT guy/team worth their weight would be able to build their own workstations and servers. Be your own support for Pete’s sake.
And instead of fighting with one or two vendors, end up fighting with a bunch of them when there’s a problem! Your idea is fine for a small office/home office, but it is at best difficult with 6,000 clients and hundreds of servers (not all of them x86 boxes).
It’s obvious you’ve never worked for a company with more than 10 or so workstations. NOBODY builds their own servers, it would be silly to do that.
When my servers have a problem – a failed drive, a dying RAID controller, really ANYTHING (and this stuff DOES happen) – I need instant support. If I build my own, I have to work with the warranty, which can take weeks. I need support in HOURS. Compaq/HP, IBM, Dell (and presumably Sun) can provide that. They know what equipment their stuff is optimized for. They have the resources to get my servers back online with minimal downtime.
Building your own works for your own home workstation. It might even work for a very small office with a single location. But in the real world, no IT professional worth his weight in salt would ever do that.
And it’s f’ing gorgeous too…
I think they’re funny, especially the “name rhymes with hell” … hilarious
But okay.. admitted, I’m a geek (or so my Comp.Science teacher claims)…
dylansmrjones
kristian AT herkild DOT dk
But still it’s a bit like saying “my retarded kid can run faster than your retarded kid.”
Also funny how they haven’t any ads comparing their servers to IBM’s. Wonder why that is 😉
You are not referring to the IBM xSeries servers, right?
Seriously, IBM x86 server machines are total crap. There is nothing innovative about them whatsoever. Not to mention IBM is not truly behind the Opteron. Although they do have a token Opteron offering I believe.
Their pSeries and zSeries is another story. However, the issue with IBM is that they are so huge that the various business groups act as if they work in totally different companies. Therefore, there is no knowledge sharing and collaboration between the server architecture groups.
These new Sun x86 machines are most innovative design I’ve seen from any major vendor. Kudos to Sun for raising the bar!
The X2100 Servers start at sub-$1000 price point. Recent review (2 days ago) at Anandtech Link:
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2530
I have heard Dells support has gone down hill over the past 3 years and will probably find out for myself since I just ordered a 2405fpw from them (First time dell purchase). Their support hasnt replied to my email questions in a week so I am not too happy so far. I will call today because I am somewhat worried about its status without any feedback or conformation.
As for their support when it comes to servers I would hope it is much higher quality than consumer support.
Having to deal with EMC, SUN, IBM, HP, and Dell customer support in the “Enterprise”; Dell has by far been the best support experience I have ever had.
Maybe the issue is what you pay for? Since we purchase Enterprise support contracts on all our devices when it comes to enterprise support Dell is by far the best.
Jim
Our Dell support is horrible. It takes them months to send us laptops.
We finally decided that all our new servers are going to be HPs. Not to mention the servers from HP have much nicer features.
Sun is slowly building buzz, and promoting personalities into the public eye. Not just Schwartz and Bechtolsheim (not McNealy, we know better), but Gosling and slew of Sun bloggers. These folks are getting regular readers (followers is much too strong a word).
While Sun fans aren’t as rabid as Mac fans, a similiar cult of personality is building. Wisely, I think, it’s building around the company as a whole, rather than the individuals, even though much of it is manifested through the people. Much like Apple has survived most everyone of “note” leaving (Hertzfeld, et al), though it can be argued it didn’t survive the loss of Jobs, but rather simply edured until he came back.
Partly this is because Sun has been just promoting the crap out of themselves and their products over the past 1-2 yrs: first with the Solaris 10, then OpenSolaris, and now all the new hardware (as well as their grid initiatives and other software announcements). Coming up next will be the new round of SPARCs.
It’s like a big head of steam building within Sun as they stewed and thunk and recovered from the Dot Bomb, and now it’s all exploding out at once.
The other interesting thing is simply that they’ve opened up, mostly through their vast array of bloggers, but also non-blog things like OpenSolaris, and use all of the different avenues to get their message out.
You may (and many do) not care for Jonathan Schwartz, but that doesn’t make his blog really any less interesting. Then you have all of the Solaris bloggers, the hardware bloggers, the Java bloggers. You have the folks participating here, on OSNews, as well as on other boards and USENET.
So, they’re canvasing the underground buzz making machine of the web- and blog-sphere as a whole, but then they also hold these pretty press announcements, glossy ads in IT magazines, as well as pressing the flesh and knocking on doors of corporate IT. Yea, it’s all marketing, but the products seem to stand up to scrutiny outside the marketing.
The big part of it is simply that by the mere fact that they’re opening themselves up like they have, they take on the patina of being a more open and accountable organization. That while they’ll talk market and suit speak all day long, hilight their advantages, muddle over their weaknesses, just like everyone else, they all seem to basically stay on message. The “open Sun” message.
If it was just Schwartz and McNealy, you could just laugh, nod knowingly, and brush it off as simple collusion. But the breadth of the voices giving the message lends it credance.
Now, it could simply be that the Sun Leadership is simply Talking the Talk to not just the public, but the employees as well. Lying to us and them while the dark cabal of execs craft sinister plans behind mahogany doors in smoke filled offices (the smoke from failed hardware, failed strategies, and failed bottom line as, I’m sure you all know, you can’t smoke cigarettes in office buildings in California).
So, it could simply be a ruse. Corporations shift message all the time, and always with the same enthusiasm. Worse that politicians.
Or, you can look at it as a simply too big for a conspiracy, they’re just too many involved, and much of it has the impression that while obiviously Schwartz’s blog is, basically, moderated by himself, his message, and keeping the phone quiet without the company lawyers screaming at him, the other bloggers are less so.
They’re more raw, more earthy. Mostly filled with technical apolitical bits, but they have the undertone of the “new Sun” (which some of them would argue is simply the old Sun, but now you get to actually simply see inside) buzzing beneath them, like a carrier wave that keeps the meaty bits of information afloat.
Also, they’re backing it up with action. Again, OpenSolaris, still has a bit to go, but there’s no turning back that clock now. They’ve opened up other bits and pieces, and seem intent on pushing all of it forward. So, they’re not just talking the talk, they’re walking it as well. Hopefully in the next few months we’ll see ZFS as well, finally. I’m all tingly waiting for that.
So, whaddya think? Is it all BS? All gold? A mix? What ratio? Have they changed any minds? Yours? Is the new Sun same as the Old Sun? Anybody with a Sun tatoo’s out there?
very nice post.
Honestly, its the open source effect. Microsoft has been doing the same thing, and the reason is because they want to adopt some of the insanely effective community building strategies that lie at the core of oss success (you can read all about it in the halloween documents on the osi website)
To be honest, Sun does desirve credit for stuff like solaris 10, which is currently about as good a unix as you can get, and has stuff that noone else has. While their hardware may not be what it once was, its still good quality, and with decent support.
But i believe you hit the nail on the head. Apple and Linux both have acheived a borderline religious following, apple through the quality of their design (say what you will, they literally wrote the book on usability before it became hip, and apple industrial design is second only to sony), linux through shear openness. What is kind of funny is that both sun and microsoft have jumped on the linux way of accomplishing a cult, i guess its easier in the long run 😉
I would say its a general trend in big tech companies nowadays, and quite honestly, i think its a change for the better. Linux users will follow the developments of major projects, conflicts of soap opera proportions between developers, and ideological holy wars between opensource groups, and i can say from personal experience, its quite engrossing. Ive seriously used all three platforms, but i find linux the most enjoyable, for the simple reahson that you not only know whats going on, but you know whats comming down the pipe. you know the guys behind the code, you know the reasoning behind contraversial descisions, you know it all. and eventually, you become a part of it.
the only reservations i have about these closed source companies new found “openness” is that it is only skin deep. they have their trade secrets, and theres a glass wall of how much a part of things you can actually achieve. for non-programmer geeks, it probably wont matter much, but once you join the open source tribe, nothing else really compares 😉
all that to say, i dont think its bs, i think that they have realised that there are people who would love to feel more involved, and it doesnt take more then a minimal effort on their part to at least meet them half way. to coin a term, its a new Open Closed Source Methodology 😉
Umm.. I was hoping that your post would be a little more insightful since it was so long. However, I think you make a few statements that are a bit misguided.
First, how can you “know whats comming down the pipe” in Linux? It’s not like there is a road map or something. I mean, sure there are some general directions but how exactly they are implemented changes all the time. That is the very nature of open source, anyone can contribute and drive the direction in any way they see fit.
Second, you insinuate that Sun has a new found openness which “is only skin deep”. This I take the most issue with (no I have nothing to do with Sun, the company). The CDDL is completely open and OSI approved. How much more open can it get?
Really it is ironic because unlike Linux, Solaris actually does have a road map. And most of the Solaris developers are highly accessible, which the massive Sun blog list is witness to.
First, how can you “know whats comming down the pipe” in Linux? It’s not like there is a road map or something. I mean, sure there are some general directions but how exactly they are implemented changes all the time. That is the very nature of open source, anyone can contribute and drive the direction in any way they see fit.
yeah, but since developer discussion takes place in the open, if you follow a project, you know what is happening. this applies to the new sun and even microsoft nowadays as well. i have yet to see a project that is that chaotic.
Second, you insinuate that Sun has a new found openness which “is only skin deep”. This I take the most issue with (no I have nothing to do with Sun, the company). The CDDL is completely open and OSI approved. How much more open can it get?
There is very little non sun development taking place on CDDL projects, the reason being that it was mostly designed for projects that are a sun testing ground. it is significantly harder to influence a sun project then most of the open source projects. I was really grouping both sun and microsoft, and any company that is getting on the blogging/mailing list/being open about project plan and development efforts bandwagon. If we are specifically talking about CDDL projects, then it does go more then skin deep, but still isnt the same as in linux. Hopefully that will change if/as more of a community develops around these projects.
Really it is ironic because unlike Linux, Solaris actually does have a road map. And most of the Solaris developers are highly accessible, which the massive Sun blog list is witness to.
I apologize if that came off as a “Sun is teh sux0r” type post, I really didnt mean it that way, and I was talking more of the general trend in the industry. I work with java every day (and like it alot, at least in a web context), and as I said, would consider Solaris the best of breed UNIX around at the moment.
And I believe pointing out that this is more of a Linux strategy then an Apple one to add insight to the origional post. Apple is quite tight lipped about what they are doing, and their community building has happened in a radically different fashion. Also, that microsoft is following a very similar strategy (albeit in a far more restricted form), and that we know that it is consciously based on an analysis of open source development. Do you disagree with either of those statements?
Following a random OSS project and following the Linux kernel are two different things entirely. Generally when we speak of Linux, we are referring to the kernel only since that is afterall what Linux actually is. And unless you have the time to read through the LKML daily, then it is nearly impossible to know exactly what is going on with Linux in the present, let alone make predictions into what the future will hold.
As for there being very little CDDL community development, I think you might want to go take a peek at what that OpenSolaris community is up to. There is a whirlwind of activity.
In fact, there has been discussions regarding Debian GNU/OpenSolaris recently. Also, SchilliX will be updated to a new release shortly that ships with a working GUI enviornment.
OpenSolaris and the CDDL are fairly recent developments. But, if you look at the momentum that it has and the size of the community after such a short period of time then you really must be impressed. I know I am anyway..
Your post was quite insightful but the answer to the question as to how trully ‘open’ Sun has become is something that Sun itself cannot decide. For many ‘open’ means being transparent, communicative, perhaps even chatty, but when applied to source code ‘open’ means that ‘your’ projects have won the mindshare and participation of others-and to the extent this is true that project is arguably no longer ‘yours’.
Sun is trying to rally the same kind of cult phenomena that made Sun a common name in the early 90’s. But the demographics of developers have changed a lot since that time. The spirit of ‘open source’ at that time was represented by the BSD’s and MIT. The avant-garde developers/entrepreneurs of the IT industry during the late 80’s and early 90’s understood and promoted the hybrid of commerical/’open source’ development, this attitude was literally embodied by Sun, which paradoxically is what Apple has now reintroduced a la Mac OS X. But that spirit, and what open source now means, has changed and changed rather dramatically. The older spirit still persists but is no longer a rallying call for potential developers.
The spirit of open source nowadays lies in the community of developers and users. No amount of capital can guarantee the success of any project-only the mindshare and participation of a wide audience can offer any such guarantee and this only occurs when companies relinquish control of what was once ‘their’ projects. To the extent where community is synonmous with employees projects can have a degree of success, but only in the short term. Sun has always seen community first and foremost as the community of it’s employees and contractors and is only now beginning to grasp what community, in a broader sense, a sense which they themselves cannot define alone, actually means.
I for one will really believe in the viability of Sun’s new found ‘openness’ when I see outsiders, those not already employed or contracting for Sun, start challenging the direction of the development, shaping and controlling the software as ‘their own project’. As long as community and employee’s/contractor’s is synonomous for Sun all the talk about openness is just that, talk. Personally, I don’t believe that Schwartz ‘gets it’ -but I suspect that many of the current Sun dev’s do-and hopefully they will help Sun find it’s way into the open….
Jon Schwartz wants to make you his bitch.
I’ve owned 3 or 4 Dell machines and I’ve NEVER had a problem with them. I don’t understand why so many people hate them. Either I take very good care of my machines, or I am very lucky…
you need different things if your talking rackmounts. desktops are a whole different story
In talking to lawyer friends, it looks as if there’s a big movement afoot to get Apple, Sun, IBM and a whole slew of others to adopt the CDDL. It’s actually safe for companies, unlike the GPL – in that they can preserve their own IP, and choose what to share, as opposed to the more “it all must be GPL” approach.
Red Hat seems to be the only company taking advantage of GPL – CDDL is just Mozilla with patent peace and the ‘Netscape’ hooks removed.
Well, the purposes are quite different.
The GPL is designed to create a seperate “ecosystem” for development, where code is shared, and the only price of buying into it is that you are forced to play nice. It is an extremely restrictive liscence, but has accomplished its purpose quite nicely. I will most likely continue to use this liscence for my own stuff, as I believe in the idea, and wish to contribute back to the community rather then give a free lunch to corporations.
More BSDish liscences are quite a bit more corporation friendly. It is true public domain code, and more writing for the sake of writing. Im not such a free software zealot as to say everything must be GPLd, and such liscences most definately have their place. But they are more geared towards the open source methodology then the free software ethical stance.
I dont really think theres a good “one size fits all” liscence for the open source world. Everyone has their reasons for opening up an application, and there should be liscences to cover each one.