“IE has grown staid in recent years as the competition has vanished. But it’s still the best browser, barely. If Mozilla can improve its reliability and site compatibility, I would have no problem recommending that product over IE to any user. […]Sadly, I can’t honestly recommend Opera to anyone. It’s not free, unless you settle for an ad-injected version, and it’s most notable features–an MDI option and its configurable UI–are already available in Mozilla, which is completely free.” Read the review at WinSuperSite.
Mozilla 1.0 vs. IE6 vs. Opera 6.01
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Typical dumbass review. Pick an old version of Opera and get “tabbed browsing” and “MDI” confused. Worthless “journalism” on the web as usual.
Opera 6.01 is not “old”. Current version is 6.03 and it only has bug fixes and not major changes in the way it behaves. The article was written in May anyway.
As for tabbed browsing and MDI, I think he has it right saying that Mozilla works better in that respect. I hate it when there is a little popup window coming up and instead of opening outside the main Opera window, it opens inside it. I want the tabbed browsing, but I do not want the kind of MDI it has (if I choose SDI behaviour with Opera, I lose the tabbed browsing!). Mozilla behaves much better in that specific issue bringing the best of both worlds (SDI/Tabs). This is why Mozilla’s tab browsing behavior is better than Opera’s, IMO.
… loos tabbed browsing if you choose sdi – you just use “pages”… open link in new pge and so… i like that better, cause then you can have more windows with more pages/tabs inside… i think it’s a nice feature…
Quite frankly, I can recommend Opera to anyone.
Reviewers still don’t get it that sites need to become more compatible with web standards and not browsers compatible to web sites. There are too many web sites done in five minutes in programs that do bad code which isn’t compliant to web standards (like FrontPage and not to mention people using Word).
And I found no stability problems with Mozilla on my machines. It works just fine and I can say it is even more stable then IE. If Mozilla crashed at least it wouldn take explorer.exe awith it.
Actually I wrote this from IE6 on WinXP on my new Pentium III 1GHz (maybe it’s gonna be my future wearable). The write seem don’t do much testing on other browser except IE6. It is very silly to mention “You get to choose the mode each time you start Opera” because the screenshot he included clearly show the button to disable the chooser.
My own experience shows that IE6 does start faster than others but while browsing is is far behind Opera on my AMD K6-400 MHz under Linux OS. Opera on my office computer (Pentium III 800MHz) under Windows98 render webpages a lot faster than this IE6 (my current machine).
I don’t like the old Mozilla because of speed but didn’t want to comment since I’ve never tried the latest version. For opera since it is not free I would recommend to others and for those using opera please make sure you put the real opera identity.
So if IE 6.0 is the fastest, most compatible, and most stable browser available for Windows, why use anything else? Where it comes up short is with features you never know you need until you experience them in another browser. And some of those features are available in an amazing Open Source success story called Mozilla. Let’s take a look.
I have seen IE 6.0 crash before (and brought down the old desktop, but the desktop restarted). But I have never seen mozilla 1.0 nor Opera 6.03 crash. Also, in terms of speed, the author fails to give ANY form of benchmark. To me, between Mozilla, Opera and IE, IE is the slowest.
Regarding the core competencies, Mozilla also gets high marks, though it’s not quite as compatible or stable as IE. It doesn’t support ActiveX controls, which means I can’t use it as my only browser, because one of the secure sites I access regularly for article updating requires this feature. And though most Web sites display correctly in Mozilla, some still do not.
ActiveX is a propreitary protocol, and doesn’t have any form of documentation of the implementation. What did you expect? Running Windows software on Mac? That would sound stupid, same here. Who you should blame is that website, using a technology that is propreitary; which anyway, isn’t that secure anyway.
So how does it compare to the competition? Opera is a curious animal, and it comes up short when compared to Mozilla. I can’t recommend this product when superior–and free–alternatives are readily available. I find its user interface to be overly busy, in sharp contrast to its original goals. The ad-enabled free version is annoying. And it offers no true email or newsgroup applications, as the other choices do, let alone the HTML editor or chat applications offered by Mozilla.
It is laughable you compare Opera MDI’s interface with Mozilla’s tab browsing, which is crap (I use Multizilla when I use Mozilla). You obviously never used Opera extensively. And also, Opera is made for a browser, it comes with a mail client so when you click a email link, you can send an email fast. On Opera’s site, it is very clear that there is an icon for “Eudora” which shows that it DOES NOT have an email client.
Well, witness the fruits of it’s victory: IE has grown staid in recent years as the competition has vanished. But it’s still the best browser, barely. If Mozilla can improve its reliability and site compatibility, I would have no problem recommending that product over IE to any user. But for now, it’s a toss-up, and one that individual users will have to weigh carefully. The safe choice, of course, is IE, but Mozilla’s tabbed browsing and pop-up window removal features make this release worth looking at. I strongly recommend that you look into this option.
IE’s site compatiblity is the advantage it has: it can read its own propreitary stuff. If IE has place it in some standards body like W3C and allow others to use it without reverse engineering; things would be much better. Also, Mozilla has the best W3C support; so blame IE for not supporting standards and blame web developers for developing for IE-only.
Sadly, I can’t honestly recommend Opera to anyone. It’s not free, unless you settle for an ad-injected version, and it’s most notable features–an MDI option and its configurable UI–are already available in Mozilla, which is completely free. Opera also lacks a true email client, though one could arguably use Outlook Express of course.
The MDI option is nothing like Mozilla’s tabbed browsing, and Mozilla’s user interface is much more configuratable than Opera (for example, can you place the address bar at the bottom of the screen and leave the buttons above? Can you place “Home” with the buttons and completely hide the links bar (not turn it into a smallbar under the toolbar).
This person doesn’t make a good review. He compares badly, make claims he never bother to back up (like IE being the fastest) and so on. What can I expect? It is from a magazine biased towards Windows. He never mention anything bad about IE; like security. He also compares with a open source product, that accroading to Mozilla’s maintainer, it isn’t made for consumers. He should have picked up Netscape instead.
This is as bad as most of the reviews for Linux distributions: comparing out of the list of features.
As for tabbed browsing and MDI, I think he has it right saying that Mozilla works better in that respect. I hate it when there is a little popup window coming up and instead of opening outside the main Opera window, it opens inside it. I want the tabbed browsing, but I do not want the kind of MDI it has (if I choose SDI behaviour with Opera, I lose the tabbed browsing!). Mozilla behaves much better in that specific issue bringing the best of both worlds (SDI/Tabs). This is why Mozilla’s tab browsing behavior is better than Opera’s, IMO.
Actually, you can choose “SDI”. Pop ups would open in new windows. But if you want to open in the same window, right click on the link, and select either “Open in Background” or “Open in New Page”.
As for Mozilla’s tab behaviour better than Opera; most people who use Opera straight for a few days can never say Mozilla’s tabbed browsing is better (to my experience). I’m planing to move to Mozilla soon; but I would use MultiZilla, which is a much better (currently) implementation of MDI and tabbed browsing than the default one at Mozilla.
The browser is the most important tool I have on my computer. I use Opera, and after two years of daily use I’ve become used to how it works. How can anyone claim I have the “wrong” browser based on technical merit? Opera doesn’t crash, doesn’t take over my machine, renders anything and everything so I’m able to see it properly, lets me zoom in and out and gives me a choice in how I navigate pages. Except for the braindead warning page on hotmail, it works flawlessly there too. And yes, I registered it. I think USD39 is a small sum for an app used as much as a browser.
I have never tested Mozilla, and I use IE5/6 whenever that’s my only choice. I like Opera, I think IE is too much and I don’t know anything about Mozilla. I also need to spend my days doing other things than compiling/installing software.
Some people (like me) actually needs software to get things done to make money to avoid starving to death. Until Opera stops working or I by sheer coincidence finds out another browser is better, I’m sticking to Opera. Get over it.
I’m ready for your big mouth now, Mrs. Loli-Queru.
You’ve got to be impressed by his ‘anything not made by MS is crap’ attitude, no really.
How can that guy say IE is the best browser around? Lets have a look at the facts:
IE:
— security vulnerabilities (about 1 a week!)
— when IE goes down, windows explorer goes down with it
— the browser freezes during some HTTP requests
— ActiveX (the IT security manager’s nightmare)
— Too many ways to ‘plug-in’ to the browser, allowing all the things ad-aware removes
— bundled with the most insecure email client the workd has ever seen
— encourages use of MS JVM (*yuck*), and when using SUNs is dog slow…(though that goes for MOZ/NS and opera too)
MOZILLA(/NETSCAPE):
— Open source
— slightly slow interface from my experience, but has improved
— fast page rendering (a la opera, but not quite as good on a 56k)
— several security vulnerabilities, though not as many as IE!
— an ‘all-in-one solution’
— customisable
— Fully W3C compliant
OPERA:
— fast…very, very fast
— About 2 or 3 major security vulnerabilities in its lifetime
— customisable (but not to the extent of (MOZ/NS))
— mouse-gestures – you’ve GOTTA love them 😉
— Fully W3C compliant
— built in email client is a bit crap
— well designed tab browsing (my favourite implementation)
— small download for non-java version
— free ad-supported version is ok, as long as you’re not epileptic when some of the ads are apparently very bad….
Lets face it, all of those lists can have pros/cons added to them. As you might have guessed i’m a big opera fan…though mozilla is good, its never been ‘right for me’. IE i just dislike because of its constant security flaws, it gets really annoying after a while! Plus all the decent website writers know how to exploit those holes….
Also, Paul Thurrott has got to be on MS’ salary surely?! “oh bill, you’re so wonderful”. Notice he’s taken a screenshot of IE’s error reporting. Ok, so thats a feature of the install, but he’s showing it on XP – which has error reporting built in?! Or is that another IE-windows shared feature now….?
I dislike how we have to put up with IE because so many web designers think IE is the ‘internet’.
Damn frontpage extensions. Damn poorly nestled tables. Damn the IE-only java applets and javascript menus. Damn the “if browser is IE then do all this, else document.write(“Sorry your browser is not supported by this site. Try downloading the latest version of IE from Microsoft”). Damn IE.
Just my rant of the day because my car’s just had to have £500 worth of work done!! 🙁
IE6 is just about as slow is IE has ever been the only difference is that windows preloads moast of the dll’s needed when you start.. IE has never been or will never be as fast as opera it is simply not possible for 17+ mb to load faster than 3mb!! and try connecting to an ftp whith IE vs. opera (when opera’s done downloading when IE’ still connecting) And as for mozilla try running that on 486! it even slower than trying to run xp..
Mozilla can view mozilla pages and IE can view microshit but opera has the unike abillity to view them both by choosing either IE or Mozilla mode. But its no use trying to convince a fanatic m$ user that life itself is not all about m$..
To start, I have IE 6, Mozilla 1.0, and Opera 6.03 loaded on my computer. I have used and tested each browser
To start, I have IE 6, Mozilla 1.0, and Opera 6.03 loaded on my computer. Personally, I find Opera (my main browser) to be the fastest and I do like it’s features. Mozilla has come a long way in terms of features and stability. If it was as fast or faster than Opera, I would have a hard time choosing between the two. As for IE, I only use it when a particular site doesn’t render properly in Mozilla or Opera. The point is to try using them all and choosing which better fit your surfing style.
I’m tired of browser wars. I use Opera just because I’m a gesture addict. That’s about it. Opera’s JavaScript support sucks. I used to chalk this up to idiots using gimpy IE specific JavaScript, while at the same time why the hell people were using Mozilla instead of Opera when the rendering engines were on par while Opera had the superior features (child windows, gestures) Then I noticed that Mozilla could actually manage some of that nasty JavaScript I considered to be IE specific.
One thing the article is definately right about is stability. Opera crashes on me occasionally. Mozilla crashes a bit less. IE crashes less than either of them. From a security standpoint… who’s to say… there have obviously been innumerable security vulnerabilities found in IE, one found in Mozilla recently, and none in Opera that I’m aware of.
So, it comes down to the same way that people choose religions… pick the one that feels right for you. And, as I said before, since I’m a hopeless gesture addict, I’ll use Opera.
Opera rocks!
— encourages use of MS JVM (*yuck*), and when using SUNs is dog slow…(though that goes for MOZ/NS and opera too)
In Windows XP, it doesn’t have MS JVM, and therefore, when you reach a Java page, it would start Windows Update and install J2SE1.4 from Sun’s servers.
— Open source
Since just before this you were listing all the cons, I’m wondering, is this a con, or a pro?
— several security vulnerabilities, though not as many as IE!
It’s security problems is as much as Opera (which I gladly use)
— customisable (but not to the extent of (MOZ/NS))
weirdly, I find Opera the most UI customizable, while Mozilla the least; among the three (I found browsers more customizable than Opera). Unless you aren’t talking about UI
— built in email client is a bit crap
If you read their feature list, it wasn’t meant to replace your email client (and they recommend Eudora anyway). It is for example, when I click on a email link (e.g. mailto:[email protected]), another seperate email client don’t need to open, especially if you just want to send a simple email.
Opera heavily recommend Eudora anyway.
— free ad-supported version is ok, as long as you’re not epileptic when some of the ads are apparently very bad….
I’m willing to pay $40 dollars for something like Opera. In fact, I’m willing to pay $100; but that’s my limit. Heck, the people who complain buys a few games around the same price a month. After all, there are free games out there…
IE i just dislike because of its constant security flaws, it gets really annoying after a while! Plus all the decent website writers know how to exploit those holes….
I don’t find IE annoying because it is annoying. I find it annoying because I’m used to Opera. For example, I never heard of an word, I just highly it under Opera, and right click it, and select Dictionary (this happens a lot of times). Encyclopedia and Translate is also very useful. But everytime I use IE, I normally try to do that, without realizing right click and bang my head on the wall. :-). Browsing is much more convinient on Opera for me.
IE6 is just about as slow is IE has ever been the only difference is that windows preloads moast of the dll’s needed when you start.. IE has never been or will never be as fast as opera it is simply not possible for 17+ mb to load faster than 3mb!! and try connecting to an ftp whith IE vs. opera (when opera’s done downloading when IE’ still connecting) And as for mozilla try running that on 486! it even slower than trying to run xp..
Firstly, Mozilla also gives users a choice to load DLLs upon boot.
Secondly, the entire IE is around the size you said; but ie.exe is just less than 100k. Other components like those managing bookmarks are loaded when Windows start, because it is used in the Start menu and other places in Windows.
And also, Windows XP, even if you don’t mind the speed, CANNOT run on a 486; it wouldn’t install. You mean a 686 or above. Mozilla binaries also doesn’t work on 486… (but I get your point). Mozilla over the releases have increase greatly in speed; while it is still resource hungry (one of the three applications on Linux that uses swap when run alone on either GNOME or KDE; Mozilla, OpenOffice.org and GIMP).
I’m tired of browser wars. I use Opera just because I’m a gesture addict. That’s about it. Opera’s JavaScript support sucks. I used to chalk this up to idiots using gimpy IE specific JavaScript, while at the same time why the hell people were using Mozilla instead of Opera when the rendering engines were on par while Opera had the superior features (child windows, gestures) Then I noticed that Mozilla could actually manage some of that nasty JavaScript I considered to be IE specific.
Opera have bad standards support (bad, considering once it had the best); mainly because the team behind it is a million times smaller than the teams behind IE and Mozilla. Anyway, if you are using Windows, try Mozilla with Optizilla (spelling?) which gives mouse gestures, and MultiZilla which gives quality tabbed browsing and MDI. If you are using Linux, try Galeon; only the UI is different than Opera though those little things that I’m so used to in Opera unavailable on Galeon, but feature wise (I’m talking about user interaction, not standard compliance), it is the closest to Opera.
One thing the article is definately right about is stability. Opera crashes on me occasionally. Mozilla crashes a bit less. IE crashes less than either of them. From a security standpoint… who’s to say… there have obviously been innumerable security vulnerabilities found in IE, one found in Mozilla recently, and none in Opera that I’m aware of.
6.0 and 6.01 of Opera for Windows was very unstable (final release of 6.0 for Linux was as stable as 6.02 and 6.03 for Windows); while I have never seen Mozilla (the RCs and final) crash even when I give it a lot of stress. IE crashes most for me. (Besides, Opera has some security vunerablties fixed in new releases, but is never as publized as IE’s and Mozilla’s because it is quite minor, just annoying for the user when an hacker uses it).
So, it comes down to the same way that people choose religions… pick the one that feels right for you. And, as I said before, since I’m a hopeless gesture addict, I’ll use Opera.
I’m also as hopelessly addicted to mouse gestures than you, but Galeon’s support for it is best among Opera-altenatives; but far from perfect. I see myself for a long time using Opera. Opera is as evil as Microsoft; they lock you in.
I prefer Mozilla. I like it because it has WAY better support for javascript than Opera, a better UI that both Opera and IE, its SKINNABLE, IMO it has a good tab system (and if you want more just use Multizilla), it has a very nice way of handling cookies, it has a pop-up stopper and ad-blocker, and it’s secure (in the rare case that a security bug is found it is fixed in less than a week).
Fopr all of you who have tried Mozilla a while ago (4 or more months) try it again! It has improved an incredible amount.
BTW for you gesture addicts there is a mozilla addon that puts gestures in you can get it http://optimoz.mozdev.org
I use IE6, and it’s the browser I like most. Opera doesn’t render pages much faster than IE, and IE downloads much faster. I haven’t tried Mozilla 1.0 yet, but the last version I used crashed every day. IE 6 still hasn’t. And only in 9x IE takes explorer.exe in a crash
When I came back to IE 5.5 from trying Mozilla for a few days, I was surprised how slow(!) it appeared. Not the rendering or loading itself, but IE appers to be blocked and not responding more often than Mozilla.
However, the real browser of my choice is Opera. First of all, I’m addicted to the gestures (the Mozilla implementation isn’t mature yet) and I really like having small buttons available for changing to my custom style sheet (convenient colors and fonts for reading long texts) and to turn off images for faster loading (even through DSL). Oh, and just entering “g something” for a google search rocks
I don’t find IE annoying because it is annoying. I find it annoying because I’m used to Opera. For example, I never heard of an word, I just highly it under Opera, and right click it, and select Dictionary (this happens a lot of times). Encyclopedia and Translate is also very useful. But everytime I use IE, I normally try to do that, without realizing right click and bang my head on the wall. :-). Browsing is much more convinient on Opera for me
How many times have you gone into IE and tried to use a mouse gesture?!! Happens at least once a day for me….!!
I’ve paid for Opera and its the best money I’ve ever spent. I love the browser, and its going from strength to strength. It’s a shame it’s not more widely known to the average Joe Bloggs.
Oh – BTW – I meant Open Source to be a pro from bug fixing viewpoint, but con too – hence I was sitting on the fence 😉
Mozilla is King on my desktop!!!
How about security ?? How much trust do you have in IE ? I am really impressed with Mozilla 1.0 ( I can use it on BeOS too!). As far as I’m concerned, all three are pretty quick. For me it comes down to the user experience, and what your familiar with, which for me Mozilla wins.
Pretty crappy review though. Web designers should avoid making their sites IE compatable only. He bases his review on compatability to IE, which is really a$$backwards (yea i know, IE has *become* the standard). He should base compatibility on real standards, and not MS imposed standards.
I shudder whenever I load IE and it jumps to some MS ieupdate site even before it goes to the homepage. What the hell is IE doing? We can only guess. Not to mention the very hidden cache settings that remain even after you clear all cache and history in IE.
I use Opera as my default browser. It is definatly the quickest to load a page of standard html, it handles multiple pages so well, it keeps all pop-up windows inside, instead of spread across your desktop like IE. It also seems to crash less then IE, and at least you can set it to reopen right where you were before the crash if you want. No I haven’t registered, and yes I use the other browsers on some (usually java or winmedia) pages that just don’t work right in Opera, but if you are researching, reading news, using lots of windows and pages, going back and forward, you can’t beat it.
As Paul said :
“IE 6 is the most stable browser I tested, with infrequent crashes. If IE 6 does crash, however, a fault collection tool (Figure) appears, letting you optionally upload crash information to Microsoft so they can fix any problems in a future release…”
So MS has probably now 15 Terabytes of crash report !! Where is the fix promised ???
And yes, IE6 is free… if you paid 300$ for the OS in which it is included !!!
Sorry Paul, but if you can’t recommend Opera to anyone, I can’t recommend your website to anyone neither.
Sorry Paul, but if you can’t recommend Opera to anyone, I can’t recommend your website to anyone neither
LOL – a simple DNS alteration from http://www.winsupersite.com to http://www.opera.com should do the trick
You hit the nail on the head!
I’d like it to be that way too. But the problem is that there’s no law of man or nature to keep the Internet standards-based.It’s sad but true, the Internet is subject to hostile takeovers just like any company is. And based on Microsoft’s previous actions, I’d say it’s a safe bet that they’re trying to do just that with their proprietary browser and webserver scheme.
If Microsoft does manage to turn the Internet into a retro-proprietary service like the old AOL, Compuserve and Prodigy of days gone by, then they’ll need to give me free access if they want me to use it. Of course most folks will be perfectly willing to throw good money after bad, like good crack addicts do.
Here’s where the ugly side of monopoly comes into play. With monopolies in full control of the Internet, you’re going to have to pay whatever they say. You’ll have to pay big money for broadband access, which will be necessary to view Microsoft’s bloated content. And once connected you’ll have to pay for access to the content, via Microsoft’s “passport”. Once you’ve gotten there, you’ll find that the only content is there to sell you even more stuff. News and things that used to be free or ad-supported will end up being pay-only in order to pay for all that MS software. I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to pat $300 a month just for the privelege of parting ways with even more of my money!
So what can you do? The first thing to do is practice what you preach. Support the standards. Use a real standards-based web browser. If you find a site that doesn’t work with HTML, don’t fall back to IE. Just keep on hitting that site with the standards-based browser. If you wanted to buy something at that site, go to a competitor instead. You might not think that such a simple thing will do much, but collectively it can. Webmasters keep statistics. Believe me, if the stats say that 10% of all hits are using Mozilla, bit 0% of sales come from that browser, someone will take notice!
of this brain-free flooder called “journalist” on OS-realted site?
For provocation?
Or for allow us to know “Average Joe” impressions?
I can barely use Mozilla or IE because i’m so hooked on Opera’s mouse gestures. And their tabbed browsing is much better than Mozilla’s, though Mozilla is still just implementing theirs.
And it’s so easy to zoom in and out of a page – the PLUS or MINUS key of the number pad – this has literally saved my eyesight. Mozilla lets you do that, but you need to use CTRL + the PLUS sign above the “=” sign at the top of the keyboard. much less convenient. IE still doesn’t have this.
Between the page zoom (done independently for individual tabs), mouse gestures, turning graphics on or off for each tab, and hiding pop-ups, Opera makes things real easy. Mozilla is getting there, and i like their email…
I’ve yet to be impressed with Mozilla and so I mainly use IE. This doesn’t mean IE is the best or better browser; obviously it comes down to opinions and experiences. I downloaded Mozilla 1 RC3 (since 1.0 wasn’t available on any of the mirrors I poked into at the time) and it crashed installing it’s Flash Plug-In. That wasn’t the first or the last time it crashed and so I don’t use it.
Yes, IE crashes, but I’m used to it’s nuances and it’s crashing and so it rarely bothers me anymore. I’m sure someone will read this post and flame me about standards, stability, and such but I really don’t care. All browsers still suck and it’s all about who sucks less to whom.
What I’d like to see is a decent print preview option in ANY browser (Mozilla’s tore the page apart and IE still doesn’t print table backgrounds). I haven’t tried Opera since 6.0 first made it’s debut on Windows so I have no idea how well that works. Anyway, my two pennies …
Paul Thurrott: “Ohh Microsoft… *SLURP* ohhh.. *SLURP* *SLURP*”
What kind of review was that? He doesn’t even mention gestures, pop-up refusal, integrated search, auto-completion of personal information, skinning, integrated email, newsgroups, fast renderning, multi-platform support…
Sorry but there you go… I’m not a MS-basher – I use MSIE6 for MSN messageboards and freeserve chatrooms ( UK ISP ) – but apart from a very few other places, everywhere supports Opera in IE5 emulation mode.,… ( fool em.. that shows u how crap the browser-necessary demands really are )
So much faster than MSIE its unbelievably. 6.01 was a bit crashy – current build isnt. I’d say its more stable than IE6. I dont use Mozilla because its slower – although my experience suggests its a fine browser for stability and compatibility purposes.
I’ve been using Opera since the ancient 3.2x days, when I got stuck with nothing but a P75 laptop. The sluggishness of the machine really made me appreciate Opera’s speed, while the uselessness of the touchpad made me appreciate Opera’s great keyboard shortcuts.
Internet explorer may be “fast”, but I don’t find it very responsive. Ditto Mozilla.
Opera’s JavaScript support sucks.
Opera’s JavaScript support doesn’t suck really, it’s people that write web sites which pay homage to Microsoft by writing IE DOM specific code. Mozilla has a DOM as well, although it is slightly different from IE’s (which is why Mozilla will show some of the sites that Opera won’t).
It’s not the fault of the browser, it’s the fault of technically challenged people who use things like FrontPage and Word to create web pages. And it’s Microsoft’s fault for always trying to take over the world by “adding” to existing standards.
This review mentions nothing about rendering speed, or compliance with the various ECMA scripting technologies i.e. the important stuff. I couldn’t give a damn about toolbars, message composers, and colours of various icons. I would have to disagree with this article, with respect to IE 6 being the best browser. Give Opera a try it is fast and stable, do not be put off by this “technically blinkered” review.
I just upgraded to the new 1.1a Mozilla and it is faster than 1.0 which I use daily, but for serious browsing I use Opera (mouse gestures). In linux (gentoo) I use mozilla because I dislike QT, and I dislike anything statically linked.
Mozilla will eventually be the best browser around without a doubt, if the mouse gestures were identical to Opera and had the good ole F12 it would replace Opera for me and many others IMO.
I have no opinion of IE since I never use it.
From the review:
“[Opera] offers no true email or newsgroup applications, as the other choices do, let alone the HTML editor or chat applications offered by Mozilla.”
Then look carefully at the title of the review:
“Windows XP Middleware Reviewed: Web browsers”
Now study them both. Go on, take your time.
That’s right. We should be comparing BROWSERS here, not complaining that they don’t install 10 different other applications that this guy obviously demands. I have my email client of choice, I have my HTML editor of choice, I DO NOT WANT IE or Mozilla to decide these for me (or install them anyway). This despite the obvious point that when comparing browsers, packaged apps are a moot point and not relevant.
</bitch>
I’m delighted by the overwhelming number of users who have posted saying they prefer Opera as their main browser of choice. I beleive the default setting in Opera is to Identify as MSIE 5.0 (for compatability I suppose), but I urge everyone to identify as Opera for the majority of their browsing. I’m tierd of seeing these reviews and stories about how IE makes up 99% of all browsers on the web. I know some sites won’t work while identify as Opera (like my online bank) so I just click on the “Identify as Opera” in the status bar to switch to “MSIE 5.0”, but I always switch back after i leave the site.
I tried opera a while ago and I loved it, until I ran into a problem. I was upgrading from 5.something to 6.0 and all was going well until I tried to start it. It seems during the upgrade something went wrong and the whole folder was corrupted. I uninstalled it and reinstalled it, but the folder with my plugins was corupted as well so I had to give up (I was on dial up and I wasn’t going to spend all that time downloading a ton of plugins again). Since I never used gestures I went back to ie 5. I tried mozilla for windows and it crashed 6 times in 20 minutes on 6 different sites. It may’ve been ie specific coding on the pages that did it, but they were pages I go to quite a bit so needless to say moz was off my hard drive pretty fast. Since then I’ve stuck with ie6 in windows. In linux I tried mozilla, netscape, opera, galeon, and konq. Moz was very good (no crashes) but I had problems getting plugins to work (especially java from sun). Netscape was just downright ugly and not only did it have plugin problems as well it crashed on me a few times. Opera had the best plugin support (still no java though, and when I dropped a line to opera’s support from windows, because I was in 2k when I thought of it, the reply I received was there were no known bugs with java and opera in windows, even though I had specified mandrake 8.1 as my disto, linux as my os, and kde as my de) and it was also stable, but I hated the look of pages it rendered (they looked different then all the other browsers for some reason). I liked galeon, but for me it seemed very slow at opening, closing and creating new windows (at the time I prefered gnome so I’m assuming it wouldn’t run better in kde since it was made with gnome in mind). And then theres konq. I have no specific reason why, but I love the “feel” of konq. Its probably the least named prefered browser but when I’m in linux (and I have dsl, cause my winmodem means linux is an offline affair till I get dsl back) I have to use konq. If only they let you import ie bookmarks so i wouldn’t have to use moz as a go between.
i use Opera…98% the other Netscape…reason because my email is netscape…i have had problems with opera checking mail….but i do agree that i don’t recomamend opera to just anyone…i do love opera and have bought it…I recommend it to the real web surfing….(just think – turn off pop up windows at a click?)
I enthusiastically agree, click file/quick preferences/identify as Opera/ so that IE or mozilla quits getting credited with Opera’s popularity. It is extremely uncomfortable using anything other than Opera once you’ve used it for a while. You can tell that from most of the comments posted.
I prefer Mozilla. I like it because it has WAY better support for javascript than Opera, a better UI that both Opera and IE, its SKINNABLE, IMO it has a good tab system (and if you want more just use Multizilla), it has a very nice way of handling cookies, it has a pop-up stopper and ad-blocker, and it’s secure (in the rare case that a security bug is found it is fixed in less than a week).
Fopr all of you who have tried Mozilla a while ago (4 or more months) try it again! It has improved an incredible amount.
Actually, for most of your points, you are correct. But for the skinable thingy; there is skinning in Opera 6 (the feature I dislike most anyway).
BTW for you gesture addicts there is a mozilla addon that puts gestures in you can get it http://optimoz.mozdev.org
I have tried the latest version, 0.3.4; not close to Opera’s mouse gestures. It also a few times crash Mozilla. It also doesn’t do well with those without a mouse (those with laptops and trackpads) If you want a stable mouse gestures, Opera is the only way.
How many times have you gone into IE and tried to use a mouse gesture?!! Happens at least once a day for me….!!
It is even worse when you are in someones house using the Net; and you do a mouse genture and they have this look – “What kind of weird guy is this?”
I’ve paid for Opera and its the best money I’ve ever spent. I love the browser, and its going from strength to strength. It’s a shame it’s not more widely known to the average Joe Bloggs.
It is not made for oe Bloggs; and thankfully too. I can’t imagine a Opera made for consumers. If that ever happens, I’m moving.
I am really impressed with Mozilla 1.0 ( I can use it on BeOS too!).
I just tried BeOS just a month ago. And BeZilla is the most unstable, buggy and slow browser available from BeOS (no offence BeZilla developers; but it seems a quick port).
Pretty crappy review though. Web designers should avoid making their sites IE compatable only. He bases his review on compatability to IE, which is really a$$backwards (yea i know, IE has *become* the standard). He should base compatibility on real standards, and not MS imposed standards.
It is called “de facto” standards. It was the same game Netscape played. And Microsoft proved that over time, you can have support for these “standards”; those Netscape “standards”.
I use Opera as my default browser. It is definatly the quickest to load a page of standard html, it handles multiple pages so well, it keeps all pop-up windows inside, instead of spread across your desktop like IE. It also seems to crash less then IE, and at least you can set it to reopen right where you were before the crash if you want. No I haven’t registered, and yes I use the other browsers on some (usually java or winmedia) pages that just don’t work right in Opera, but if you are researching, reading news, using lots of windows and pages, going back and forward, you can’t beat it.
I disable Java support for Opera; I avoid those horidly slow pages.
And yes, IE6 is free… if you paid 300$ for the OS in which it is included !!!
Actually, you could buy a $200 retail pack of XP Home. And if you are making a PC; it is half that price. And if you bought it from Dell or HP or Compaq or IBM.. it is quarter or less of that price. This is the only reason why Office is a much better cash cow than Windows, because Office is sold at mainly $500 retail packs; while Windows is mainly bundled with computers; and therefore come with a discount.
also, IE5.x is free for Solaris and Mac OS (the Solaris port is dead though)….
Mozilla is getting there, and i like their email…
I like their email too; but I use Yahoo!, and don’t really want to pay for pop3 mail…
LOL – a simple DNS alteration from http://www.winsupersite.com to http://www.opera.com should do the trick
Good idea!
When it first appeared on the trunk I wasn’t convinced about tabs. It seemed a little bit “me too” and my worries were reinforced by the incredible number of tab related bugs introduced into Bugzilla. While I was confirming fixes for these bugs though I found that the whole concept grew on me. I use tabs extensively in Gnumeric and XChat and they began to feel like an essential part of web browsing too.
What has really shocked me is the positive response in reviews. Netscape’s role in Moz.org helps here because they made sure that reviewers knew about this cool stuff, but in real reviews written by users the feature has to actually sell itself and I think this one really did.
Imagine what could happen when users discover all the MozDev add-on treats that await them.
Enigmail’s genuinely easy to use integrated OpenPGP mail support?
Multizilla’s power-user get-things-done tab interface ?
Optimoz’s gestures and pie menus?
MozBlog’s as-you-browse blogging ?
Because this isn’t Internet Explorer we can make some real changes and take some real risks. Should there be a special bar just for Google searches? A way to access 25,000 search engines ? Support for using OE instead of MailNews ? Do what you will shall be the whole of the lizard.
I am very confident that in the future, MS will produce a tab version of IE. And maybe they will put some improvement on the aesthetic and start …..
” I just tried BeOS just a month ago. And BeZilla is the most unstable, buggy and slow browser available from BeOS (no offence BeZilla developers; but it seems a quick port).”
This quick port is progressing very quickly, and opinion made by month old version is totally obsolete.
Try suitable for your config version here:
http://bebits.com/app/2715
(take in account also patches) – and you will be impressed.
(Only complains about instability of last version i get – it is under very fast dual Athlon + Dano. )
Maybe problem is rather in check-in process under Mozilla – this is serious product, and BeOS check-ins lagged heavily comparing to BeZilla state on developers’ computers
horrible review, but what do u expect when the hostname is win*. i dont know what sites the reviewer and bascule visit (nor do i want to know) but opera _rarely_ crashes on my win2k box. cant say the same for ie6 however.. opera’s support for most sites is a bit flakey i agree with that. id reccomend opera to anyone.
What do you think? Personally, I’m eagerly awaiting OBOS (or whatever they decide on). That plus the antitrust trial openeing up all MS APIs could be interesting…
I like it; but hardly use it. I use it on the 120mhz Pentium MMX computer (which beware; is going to be my household server when I get DSL); to be used as a MP3 jukebox that doesn’t skip (quite amazing actually). Even my almost-computer-illerate mother knows how to change the song order, or play the song she wants to hear (but then again, she could do that also on Winamp).
As for OBOS; I hardly know it; but judging from the news, it is coming around strong. Hope they pick my name suggestion “Eaze OS”. But remember, the same way I critize Lycoris, I would critize OBOS if they blatantly copy the entire BeOS UI (including icons). But if they copy R6 based on those unofficial screenshots; I wouldn’t mind a bit. If they copied BeOS’s philoshopy in icon making; I don’t mind either (and hopefully in R1; they have undithered icons).
I am very confident that in the future, MS will produce a tab version of IE. And maybe they will put some improvement on the aesthetic and start …..
I doubt it; they have been constantly moving apps from MDI to SDI – tabbed browsing is one step closer to MDI (but it isn’t MDI)
This quick port is progressing very quickly, and opinion made by month old version is totally obsolete.
Try suitable for your config version here:
http://bebits.com/app/2715
(take in account also patches) – and you will be impressed.
Seems pretty impressive; but I rather have a Mozilla in a form of Chimera or Galeon on BeOS (ie totally native).
Regarding compatibility Mozilla is more standards
conformant than IE but doesnt support some of the
non-standard or long-deprecated things dumb web programmers
are still using. The only advantage of IE is that MS
bundles it for free with its OS while you have
to download Mozilla yourself. This is probably already too
much for some Windows users …
if it’s too much for them to download mozilla then what about checking windows update every week for security fixes?