China’s Huawei has applied to trademark its “Hongmeng” operating system (OS) in at least nine countries and Europe, data from a U.N. body shows, in a sign it may be deploying a back-up plan in key markets as U.S. sanctions threaten its business model.
If you need to make your own operating system in the current market, you’ve already lost. Huawei is in a very deep hole.
Surely just buy up an exisitng OS. Sailfish springs to mind. Few mil and they have a viable OS with an android run time. That’s without looking at KaiOS (firefoxOS) or other linux based phone systems
I Love HUAWEI
Thom Holwerda,
While the US has banned google from signing license deals with huawei, they could technically continue development on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) without violating international copyright treaties. This is important because it means the US has no legal authority to stop huawei in it’s home country or 3rd party countries. Using software that is open sourced under non discriminatory license is perfectly legal at least in countries where US has no jurisdiction.
https://source.android.com/setup/start/licenses
AOSP is missing google’s proprietary applications and store, which is a big problem for US consumers. However the chinese arena is more competitive with most manufacturers already offering their own app stores.
https://www.techinasia.com/10-android-app-stores-china-2014-edition
While I think huawei will take a hit, eastern markets are so much bigger than the US that I don’t think it’s a life or death situation for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population
The US administration better be careful, because china could escalate this war and block US companies in china. If cooler minds don’t prevail, we may end up breaking global trade.
As you pointed out, the problem lies with google’s proprietary stuff, like gmail, youtube and play store. Try selling an android phone without them in any non-China market, and see if you can find anyone who is willing to pay 500 dollars for a phone that cannot access youtube (or facebook, instagram, twitter etc., which are all owned by US firms).
The app-based paradigm, rather than the truly open web-based one brought us to this point, where the US government can kill a firm by just prohibiting access to US-based platforms.
There are some people who are willing – the open source enthusiast types (hell, depending on my economic status at the time, I’m one).
You’re right in general, though. Not enough such people.
However, there’s no reason you can’t write good (or improve existing) third party replacements to such apps, that can access the google services without using (proprietary) Google code. Some open source implementations already exist, though they’re incomplete.
Huawei could, if they wanted, release a phone with an OS entirely Android and able to talk to Google services without using any software restricted by the embargo.
>There are some people who are willing – the open source enthusiast types (hell, depending on my economic status at the time, I’m one).
What does being an “open source enthusiast type” have to do with ones’s economic status?
It doesn’t.
We’re talking about “anyone who is willing to pay 500 for a [google-free] phone”
Depending on my economic status at the time – ie, do I have the spare cash – I am one who is willing.
“As you pointed out, the problem lies with google’s proprietary stuff, like gmail, youtube and play store. Try selling an android phone without them in any non-China market, and see if you can find anyone who is willing to pay 500 dollars for a phone that cannot access youtube (or facebook, instagram, twitter etc., which are all owned by US firms).”
Little point here
https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/3-ways-get-around-googles-uncertified-device-ban-0184253/
You can still install gapps uncertified devices along with over 90% of all google play application just running in uncertified. So most those apps still work. Now if you are after those with google interaction to work you need todo the unapproved device process and register the device so the deal is now between you and google and them most of those applications work as well. Only the applications using the highly restrictive digital right management options fail.
Of course huawei can decide to be more evil.
https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk
Just pretend to be a company that is certified to gapps then to the customer everything works anyhow.
The google play store barrier is quite minor. Just because your device is not approved does not mean that google does not want to sell you applications and make money off selling you applications.
This is what make banning google from doing business with huawei so stupid. All it means is you have a few extra steps todo in setup of your device for most users.
Ohh, please first have your dad or aunt or neighbor implement any one of these gadgethack recommendations, and then we’ll resume our conversation about how this will affect the business of a phone manufacturer.
The fact that you (and I) are 20-something nerds doesn’t mean everybody else are as well.
“Ohh, please first have your dad or aunt or neighbor implement any one of these gadgethack recommendations, and then we’ll resume our conversation about how this will affect the business of a phone manufacturer.”
Because they don’t here in most cases. Mine relations are not suitable. Here they buy device support from the carrier and when they have a problem like this they take the device to the carrier store and the carrier staff does it. The reality is we have the other brands that not google certified solid by the mobile phone carriers in the country I am in. So they set-up the devices for end users.
Maybe where you are the carriers device support is crap.
In fact my dad and aunt and neighbors are all highly computer and device skilled they have no problems doing any of those instructions. But I will admit they are well above average. The average normally pay the extra 50 dollar a year here for device support to the carrier so they truly don’t need to know how todo those instructions, Only thing that is factor is that the instructions exist and a store level skill person can do them.
Just like google wants to sell apps to end users certified or not. Carriers want users using applications to burn up their data plans and improve their profits. So helping a user to a uncertified device is in the carriers advantage it even to carriers advantage to train users to burn more data.
Hell, that would be over the head of most 20 year olds as usually their skill set is more geared toward social media usage then having any type of real technical knowledge.
hdjhfds,
I’m a dad, uncle, and twice as old as a 20-something nerd. Not for nothing, but my generation accessed computers from the command line, manually installed applications from zip files, and setup sound cards using dip switches before plug and play was a thing. If anything, I’d say modern technology has really lowered the bar with respect to the skills a user needs to have to operate technology. Now days you might not even have to read a manual, like learning the AT command set to use a modem. Everything’s been transformed into locked down fisher price apple gadgets targeting techno-phobic young people who just click icons and know squat about technology. So now you’re worried about not being able to install some google apps, don’t fret it, you can always ask one of the more experienced pros from older generations for help.
See what I did there? I took your stereotype and inverted it, haha. Sorry I couldn’t resist 🙂
Alfman,
Not an aunt? Then you don’t count…
Gee… For a moment I felt like I’m back in the primary school.
hdjhfds if you are going by device configuration skill. I do device repairs. The under 30 on average are less skilled than the over 30. The over 30 are more likely to pick up service manuals and the like and attempt basic software repairs themselves the under 30s give it to their parents or store to fix. Why they did not learn how to fix tech in school only how to use it.
Software issues do happen lot. People do buy Xiaomi phones these do run MIUI are are not google certified either.
“HongMeng OS”/ “Oak OS” of Huawei and MIUI of Xiaomi will be in the exact same boat problem for you is Xiaomi is in that boat now and people buy their phones and store people selling them deal with the google play issue now. So whey I say the owners taking devices to store to get certificate issued fixed or having store fix it when they buy the device is normal for Xiaomi phones I cannot expect Huawei treatment to be any different. Yes the same instructions for registering a non certified Xiaomi device will apply to a non certified Huawei so staff don’t have to learn anything new. Mind you I would now expect Xiaomi and Huawei items be shelved in the same area in the stores so staff can fix the issue before it goes out door while charging customer extra 50 dollars for work (more profit for the store by the way).
Basically i see the google play store problem as a fart in thunderstorm for Huawei devices once the media caused panic dies off. To general users it will mean less than build quality items like battery live, ram, storage. Battery life could be adversely effected by Huawei lack of arm license to newer generations but this is a year or 2 off problem..
My thoughts exactly. Hongmeng is yet another “Android for China” fork, but Huawei will try to sell it worldwide to the people willing to install Play Services on their own. It could mean some good deals.
Thom Holwerda,
“If you need to make your own operating system in the current market, you’ve already lost. Huawei is in a very deep hole.
https://www.oppo.com/au/coloros/
Really how under researched are you. Coloros is only the start you have Flyme, Funtouch, MIUI and OxygenOS that are all different vendors versions of Android built from ASOP.
“HongMeng OS”/ “Oak OS” of Huawei is built from ASOP like what the other vendors have done. Huawei has had a insiders contract with Google and this is basically why they had not made their own OS on their products sooner. Thinking that most major phone vendors other than Huawei were making their own ASOP fork they were the odd one out.
Also now Huawei can diversify their OS line up on phones due to no longer being restricted by contract with Google. Aurora OS based on Jolla’s Sailfish is being talked about.
The silicon side is a real problems but there a few years before that gets critical. The OS side is basically to the point of who cares. Remember some of those ASOP forks I mentions you have to install google applications as end user to get access to google play store.
And the winner is…Apple.
A powerful (Huawei was going to be biggest device seller in the world…) opponent business disrupted – check
Android fragmentation – check
Android World Dominance in peril – check
Who knows where Apple’s lobbying money has been directed to?
Seriously, from a European perspective, US infrastructure was already safe (no Huawei gear in 5G infrastructure is a given for US), so this ban is mostly nonsensical. Unless, think of it, a certain fruit themed company is seeing its core business shrinking due to a lot of chinese mobile phone makers reaching a “good enough” status for a lot of people, especially in europe and india.
But to be there (international markets) those makers need an OS with Google services, because you do not want Android without Gmail etc.
At the same time, you are undercutting Android because you are basically telling anybody in the world that you cannot build your business model on an OS that can be taken away any time: Samsung and other manufacturers surely took notice.
It’s just as likely that it will fail quickly and other android phones will take off in various markets. We may see more samsung market share for instance. I don’t think it translates to a victory for apple.
From my perspective, there are two problems with android. One is easy to solve and the other is complicated by the ban. Fragmentation and lack of updates is the hard problem. A working email client is the easy problem. Android does not have a reliable email client. If you use Gmail with it’s nonstandard imap features or you use outlook + exchange, it works fine. If you use a standard IMAP server with mbox rather than maildir, it fails to delete messages half the time. It doesn’t account for changing towers or disconnects. It doesn’t handle anything. As most clients use the built in android libraries for this, most third party clients suck too. Dovecot should be a standard test case. It’s very popular. I had to switch back to iOS so I could get my email and delete it too.
Apple is increasingly obnoxious. The mac pro pricing is a classic example. The $1000 stand for the monitor another. However, as insane as the pricing is, the products typically work. Google’s solution is to move all my mail to them. That’s even more costly than buying an iphone.
Cost is the least of the problems in this context. By moving your mail to Google (an American firm) you basically trust your business to an undependable country that obviously elects nutjobs and ruins established enterprises at a whim.
>Cost is the least of the problems in this context. By moving your mail to Google (an American firm) you basically trust your business to an undependable country that obviously elects nutjobs and ruins established enterprises at a whim.
Exactly how is that different to what the USA does from time to time.
Lot of cases using mail servers outside your own country can bring trouble.
laffer1,
It’s not my favorite design for an email program, but ‘k9 mail’ client works for me with standard IMAP (dovecot and postfix).
I wish thunderbird were supported on android though. I’m honestly worried about thunderbird’s future even for the desktop though, they suffer from insufficient development resources. Gmail is so popular they’ve basically wiped out the viability of alternative clients.
I’ve noticed Microsoft (and to a lesser extent, Google) have gotten very picky recently about where they’ll accept mail from. MS particularly will randomly decide to reject mail from small mailservers, and give very unclear reasoning why, with no clear path to get back in their “good books”.
The answer is often just “Move to one of the big mail providers”
The1stImmortal,
The person who does accounting for one of my clients uses a hotmail address (since before it was absorbed into outlook.com). When they hadn’t responded to my emails, I called and they mentioned that they didn’t get them and they weren’t receiving emails from several others too; not even in their spam folder. It looks like microsoft is accepting emails normally but silently dropping emails on it’s end. The worst case scenario is when neither the sender nor recipient know that an email provider discarded an email.
I don’t have this problem with google. It rejects some of the form submission spam on my client’s websites, which is understandable. But at least google rejects them property via a negative SMTP status. IMHO microsoft’s implementation is buggy for accepting emails and then dropping them without a bounce, this does real harm to it’s users and probably affects millions, I don’t know if they really care though.