The lack of x64 emulation has been a major bottleneck for Windows on ARM devices since apps that are available only in 64-bit flavor cannot be run on these devices. Those apps include the likes of Adobe’s Premiere Pro. While some might argue that the current crop of ARM-based PC-centric chipsets may not be suited for such loads, we could see Qualcomm make bigger strides in terms of performance with its future chips that might be more potent for heavier workloads.
According to our sources, Microsoft could be planning to add x64 emulation support to the platform with the Windows 10 21H1 update. If the company’s plans are still on track, it would not be surprising to see the company test out x64 emulation with Insiders sooner rather than later.
This would make ARM-based Windows machines more useful, but as the linked article suggests, it would definitely need more powerful chips.
I’d be shocked if Microsoft weren’t planning to add support for 64-bit emulation (eventually, as related Intel patents expire and they can do it without getting into 5 years of legal disputes) from the beginning.
The question is; when do Intel’s patents on SSE2 (which is “required” by 64-bit, according to AMD, ironically) expire?
My guess (based on some half-baked web searching) is that the patents expire in 2023; which would mean that Microsoft are giving themselves about 3 years to add support and fix all the bugs in time for a 2023 release.
SSE2 was first available on Pentium 4 (Willamette) which came out in November 2000, so that would imply the patents will expire by the end of this year.
Luke McCarthy,
It’s a prime example of how patents kill innovation. It’s the lawyers who win.
My biggest worry is lawyers in the food sector.
Like John Deere tractors you can’t fix and Monsanto patents for food production, etc.
Patents supposedly exists for increase innovation, ironically they are having the opposite effect I think and probably would make more money without them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2FOrx41N0
Lennie,
Yeah, the john deere situation is complete and utter bullshit. Hopefully the right to repair movement gains enough momentum to make it into law and outlaw that crap for good. Who knows if that can happen though with so many obstructers in congress.
I don’t actually know much about monsanto, I heard a report about it on NPR a few years ago and that’s about all I know. It’s obviously never good to be overly dependent on a single supplier, but a lot of the outrage was over generic engineering, and honestly I’m not sure where my opinion lands on that.
Another area where patents come up is medicine. IMHO it makes more sense to fund publicly rather than via patent royalty kickbacks. The US healthcare system is too strained to continue with these astronomical drug prices.
How does this make ARM-based Windows machines more useful? There are practically no Windows applications that have no 32-bit version. The only ones that really are 64-bit only are those that need so much performance that they wouldn’t run acceptably on old 32-bit machines anyway (like Premiere Pro). But if you want to use those apps, you certainly do not want to use an emulator and need a native version anyway. So I really don’t see how this makes ARM-based Windows machines more useful (at this time).
Except that the reason there’s still 32-bit versions of everything is that 32-bit Windows is still a thing on x86. MS has been making moves and dropping hints that that will (finally) be coming to an end within the next decade or so, so this is, at least from my perspective, really future proofing more than an immediate benefit.
Yes, you will want a native version anyway, but realistically there will be a transition period where the ARM versions just aren’t there yet. And keep in mind a lot of end consumers aren’t especially savvy about the difference between 64-bit and 32-bit and may not even care if a given app runs poorly, as long as it runs. Lightroom is an example of an app that won’t run especially fast, but would be theoretically usable. Even video-editing apps like Premiere Pro aren’t necessarily going to be as much as a disaster as you might assume, since they tend to offload a lot to the GPU.
I’m pleasantly surprised, not by the proposed changes, but by the rate of change.
There is a clear philosophical division in the marketplace now. MS in the short term is heading towards a more diverse spread of platforms, while Apple has apparently announce plans to become even more proprietary. It will be interesting to see if both ideologies can survive long term.
More specifically on MS, I’ve wanted this ARM focus for some time now, ever since the first Surface devices hit the market. I can see this having some enormous benefits, specifically when moving away from the desktop for concepts towards IoT. Everybody first thinks about laptop, phone or tablet replacements when these ideas are floated, but they are a drop in the ocean. For years I’ve been hacking away at recycled cellphones as a pathway to ever more powerful, smarter and user friendly sensors and control systems.
cpcf,
Same here. My biggest concern is that we’ll see all this great new commodity ARM hardware, but it will be locked down by both microsoft and apple. It already sucks that so much of it is proprietary, but it will be very sad if it’s bootlocked too.
it will be locked down by both microsoft and apple
Why not to buy unlocked hardware then?
https://www.solid-run.com/nxp-lx2160a-family/honeycomb-workstation/
viton,
That’s what I’ve done so far, however these can be more specialized and more expensive than commodity computers on top of which it’s often not a finished product.
I’ve gotten some excellent deals on used laptops that I couldn’t afford otherwise. I’ve saved thousands of dollars this way and helped protect the environment from e-waste as well. However when technology manufacturers lock owners out of their own machines and actively impede self-sufficiency, a lot of these benefits go out the window. I understand the financial motivations for what they’re doing, but it’s actually quite harmful to the after-market. And I also understand the “vote with your feet” rebuttal, but often our buying power is effected by what other consumers are buying. Niche hardware can be 2-3X more expensive than the same thing at the local walmart for example.
I want ARM computers to be repurposable as the owner sees fit. I think it would be unwise to ignore how much platform restrictions on new hardware could hurt us in the long run.
I understand the financial motivations for what they’re doing, but it’s actually quite harmful to the after-market.
This is going against consumption society. Companies must grow. Users should throw away old stuff and buy new (a little bit more expensive) things. This is people like you and me who want to give a second life to devices. But majority do not even care about it.
I’m purchasing niche hardware (whatever I can afford) to have fun and encourage people who tried to do something new.
viton,
Except that it doesn’t follow that restrictions are the best way to achieve growth. The 80s and 90s provide a clear counter-example as a period when companies grew extraordinarily fast. The personal computer market thrived despite the lack of restrictions at the time. It was a period of rapid innovation and growth because innovation was the primary currency of those times, not these damn patent portfolios or owner controlling devices. Apple, microsoft and numerous other new companies grew into the successful companies they are during this era. They displaced IBM, which notoriously used it’s mainframe dominance to lock in it’s customers rather than innovate. While this made plenty of money for IBM, they failed to innovate and grow and practically all the innovation was elsewhere on clones and competitors. Unfortunately this is where the apples and microsofts are standing at today. They’ve turned into massive & stale IBMs of their own who’ve become more interested in protecting their markets than competing or innovating.
It’s hard to say where this will go because we know IBM ultimately failed to close the door to the younger competitors that would eventually overtake them, but apple and microsoft have more legal and technological tools at their disposal to impede competitors in ways that IBM couldn’t do in the old days.
Perhaps some young upstart will find a way to overpower the stale corporations despite their control. Perhaps the DOJ could start doing it’s job and enforcing antitrust laws with more gusto. And perhaps congress could do a 180 and begin passing legislation for country as a whole rather than always going with corporate lobbyists who’s agenda is to strengthen and protect corporate empires they represent. But here’s the thing, I don’t think we’ll ever approach the rate of innovation of last century with technology that is locked down and restricted. This just isn’t conducive to innovation and this is why I think everyone should stand up against coercive owner restrictions at every opportunity we have. If we should fail, it’s not just going to be harder for DIY tinkers to tinker, the entire industry is going to be dependent on middlemen who provide little of value and yet can exploit their control to impose their own rules and taxes on the rest of us. Many of us felt the “microsoft tax” was bad, but that could pale in comparison to what’s coming if we allow these corporations to keep the keys to our own machines!
Agreed Alfman, it makes perfect sense to re-purpose old hardware for sensors, control systems, even some server applications, etc., etc., especially old phones and tablets. I’m not talking about large scale commercial applications, they have to be energy optimised. But domestic stuff, smart homes, power management, hacking, etc., etc.. There are 100s of IoT type devices for every phone in the marketplace, were the environmental cost of the device can only be recouped by extending it’s life beyond the retail purpose.
@Viton, re-purposing old hardware isn’t the same as not buying new hardware. Nobody is going to buy a new laptop and turn it into a Smart Home controller, but you might buy a new laptop and turn your old laptop into a Smart Home control system. Same applies to new phones, new tablets, etc., etc..
When you have a home running on renewable energy, the worst thing you can do is keep buying new hardware to make it smarter, recycle the old stuff!