Terrasoft has released YellowDog Linux 4.1. This new release of course incorporates the latest and greatest of the Linux world, but besides that it also features support for the latest Apple PowerBooks, beta support for Apple G5 PowerMacs with dual-core processors, and basic 64-bit development and runtime support. The release is now only available to subscribers, but a public release is planned for mid-February.
Sound on the G5 powermacs is going to be supported, YDl is based on Fedora core, so how does YDL compare with Fedora core 4 ppc in terms of performance. I hope X11R7 is integrated in the next release of YDL
http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/laptops.html
Good time to pick up a used Apple laptop for running YDL on.
Linux on iBooks/Powerbooks is next to useless. If you can’t use wireless, and can’t get as much battery life as with OS X, then a Mac laptop loses 50% of its worth/usefulness.
Linux on iBooks/Powerbooks is next to useless. If you can’t use wireless, and can’t get as much battery life as with OS X, then a Mac laptop loses 50% of its worth/usefulness.
To put it bluntly: horseshit.
I use Ubuntu 5.10 exclusively on my Pismo and, yes, battery life is mediocre.
However:
Aiport Card — it just works
Sleep — it just works
Open Office — it just works
Firefox — it just works
Hardly next to useless.
I’m very happy with Ubuntu on my Pismo.
Allllllright there. I’m not talking about an archaic laptop from 2000. I’m talking about modern iBooks/Powerbooks. This new release does, after all, add “support” for the newer Mac hardware — that’s pretty much the key point.
Airport Extreme — doesn’t “just work”
Sleep — doesn’t “just work” based on what I’ve heard
I could also say:
Open Office — crap
Firefox — crap
Linux — useless compared to OS X
But that’s unrelated.
“But that’s unrelated.”
No , thats usual LIP when he talk GNU/Linux on OSNews 😉
Airport Extreme –
http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/
Sleep –
Work on Apple system.
Usual problem where GPU ( graphic card ) ( dual Screen , video out ) , Modem ( ethernet , V90 modem ) , some included device ( firewire ). There covered now until the new release at the end of this month.
If you leave KDE or GNOME in full mode , off course Mac OS X on power consumption is going to have better result. Otherwise its around the same.
The BCM43XX driver is still in its infancy, and requires some major hacking around with other 3rd-party utilities to even GET some kind of WiFi going. Last time I checked, the driver was still incapable of associating with any APs.
Anyway, about your power consumption comment, you basically admitted that Linux is less efficient than OS X. If OS X can make use of a hardware-accelerated UI with lots of fancy effects, and still use less power than Linux with KDE with its rather primitive “effects”, then what does that say about the latter?
PS: Radeon 9600’s are still relatively poorly supported in Linux, even on x86.
“The BCM43XX driver is still in its infancy”
No , in development , it work for most people ( read developper ), but its not perfect.
“and requires some major hacking around with other 3rd-party utilities to even GET some kind of WiFi going.”
There is a patch that apply directly to the kernel :
ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/bcm43xx/dscape_vanilla
“Last time I checked”
Its upgraded almost daily… If its not to your liking go on the mailing list and talk politely with the developper about what you found that is not working to your liking.
“the driver was still incapable of associating with any APs.”
AP as in airport ?
“you basically admitted that Linux is less efficient than OS X.”
No , I said if you havent properly configured GNU/Linux and it stays on Desktop mode only with the WM or/and DE that you use , off course Mac OS X with power consumption is going to have better battery results. Not to contradict you directly but everyone I know , that actually know what there doing , double there battery life time with GNU/Linux as opposed to there Mac OS X use , but I know that with a vanilla configuration on full desktop mode it can drain the battery relatively fast.
” and still use less power than Linux with KDE with its rather primitive “effects” ”
You obviously dont know KDE. There is actually a lot of “effects” that are activated but not used unless checked by the user , thats why on lesser hardware its advised to turn of KDE effects.
“Radeon 9600’s are still relatively poorly supported in Linux, even on x86.”
Not poorly , but there could be more work done to bring them on par with Windows and Apple driver , its all a question of budget and priority , 9600 are considered old and *working*.
I dont think you really that interested in having a fully working system anyway , you seem more interested in taking what you think are flaws and what some people have said dont work at a moment in time and blow them out of proportions.
> There is a patch that apply directly to the kernel :
Oh yay, kernel patching. A pinnacle of technology in 2006.
> AP as in airport ?
No, AP as in “access point”. The driver can function as an access point and something else, but it can’t associate with one yet — at least that was the case the last time I checked.
> No , I said if you havent properly configured GNU/Linux and it stays on Desktop mode only with the WM or/and DE that you use , off course Mac OS X with power consumption is going to have better battery results.
So why can’t a distro for PPC computers automatically tweak itself, just like OS X does? I don’t have to do anything with OS X to get a 5.5 hour battery life.
> Not to contradict you directly but everyone I know , that actually know what there doing , double there battery life time with GNU/Linux as opposed to there Mac OS X use.
Bullshit. There’s an unfounded statement if I’ve ever seen one. Are you telling me I can get closer to 10 hours of battery life with Linux, whereas I only get 5.5 with OS X? Laughable.
> You obviously dont know KDE. There is actually a lot of “effects” that are activated but not used unless checked by the user , thats why on lesser hardware its advised to turn of KDE effects.
Whereas with OS X I can retain *all* of the effects and not suffer much of a battery life hit at all.
> Not poorly , but there could be more work done to bring them on par with Windows and Apple driver , its all a question of budget and priority , 9600 are considered old and *working*.
There is no open-source driver that supports 3D acceleration for the 9600 on x86 — much less PPC. Weak.
I AM interested in having a fully-working system, and an easy-to-use, hassle-free system. It’s called OS X.
I see LIP’s point. When I buy something I want it work, no matter what. If it doesn’t work, it’s broken. Recompiling any part of the system is out of the question for mobile user. So what I can do it, not everyone wants to spend hours because of the first patch, the next patch that patches the previous patch, modyfing Makefiles, fixing source code errors, etc.
Airport Extreme — doesn’t “just work”
That’s true.
But since the broadcom chip has been reverse engineered, I expect out of the box Linux support within the year.
Linux — useless compared to OS X
As some one who uses both at home, I’m going to have to disagree on this.
Yes, most of my work is done on my main OS X machine (Glorfindel [MDD PowerMac dual 867]), but making making “Gil-Estel” a Ubuntu machine has hardly rendered it useless as compared my OS X machines.
The world was not conqured in beta, but Ubuntu is useful enough to me that it’s staying. I bought Gil-Estel to have another laptop to write and surf the web on and I’m getting my money’s worth as far as that’s concerned.
I have to disagree. I have seen Fedora Core 4 runs on Mac Mini and Ibook G4 during LinuxWorld San Francisco 2005. Guess what? Many visitors were litteraly impressed the OS runs smoothly with all applications included from Office to Internet.
The only thing that didn’t work was Broadcom Airport Extreme on G4. However, there is a reverse-engineering drivers for Airport Extreme on the way, from what I hear, it is functionnal.
It won’t be surprised that the incoming version of YDL will support Airport Extreme as well.
I don’t doubt that it can run, but if I can’t use Airport Extreme and my battery life is mediocre, then Linux is useless to me, and any other iBook/Powerbook G4 owners.
The reverse-engineered Broadcom drivers are still very immature and do not have any functionality for associating with an AP yet, making them virtually useless.
“but if I can’t use Airport Extreme”
– USB 802.11b key
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/solutions/ydl_4.1/usb-802…
– Netgear WG511 54Mb PCMCIA Wi-Fi card
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/solutions/ydl_4.1/netgear…
– Sony Ericsson GC83 Edge PC Card
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/solutions/ydl_4.1/cell-ca…
“and my battery life is mediocre”
http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/stirling/computergeek/powersaving.ht…
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Mobile-Guide/html/mobile-guide-p6a5s7-power…
Change battery too …
“then Linux is useless to me”
No , you just dont know what your doing. Part of your hatred toward GNU/Linux is your refusal to seek solutions and people who can service your need for free or at a fee , you whant it to work 100% out of the box , when ***your the installer***. Your looking and seeking what is not working instead at looking for solutions.
Quite typical reaction really, it’s the white man’s burden to try and kill everything he doesn’t understand.
You’re actually saying that Linux is a good solution for an iBook G4 user, because they can go out and buy a USB WiFI adapter? *LOL*
Seriously now. I’m sure that’s what every iBook G4 user wants: A big block sticking out of their USB port as they move around with their iBook. You simply do not understand the concept of elegant computing. I don’t blame you — you do, after all, use Linux.
As for battery life … it’s more than just good practice (low brightness, turning off hard drives, etc.). It’s about the underlying core of the OS and how it deals with the hardware, and whether all of the drivers make use of the hardware’s power-saving features.
“You’re actually saying that Linux is a good solution for an iBook G4 user”
Yes , otherwise it would not exist and Ibook+G4+GNU/Linux would have zero return on search engine.
“because they can go out and buy a USB WiFI adapter?”
This might be a big news to you but for most people Modem on there GNU/Linux Laptop have just recently been useable because of recent driver development. before that most people used pmcia cards because the internal modems where unable to work due to lack of driver. I will even admit that up until now GNU/Linux is a parasite on everyone else hardware , nothing is built for GNU/Linux from the ground up.
“Seriously now.”
You whant me to take you seriously LIP ? Pleeeassse …
“I’m sure that’s what every iBook G4 user wants: A big block sticking out of their USB port as they move around with their iBook. ”
Your stuck on the USB solution , because it serve your image , Yes, People who use GNU/Linux have to use alternative methods when the primary one is not yet functionning … Sorry GNU/Linux i snot perfect for everything and everyone , but people are still working at improving it.
“You simply do not understand the concept of elegant computing.”
Actually I do , but unlike you I realise that I dont have the funds nor the credibility to sucessfully make it so. Nothing would please me more then to have a fully manned 100 people PPC Lab with the old and latest Apple with a 50 million USD budget. I do what I can , realistically.
“I don’t blame you — you do, after all, use Linux.”
I Use , support , maintain and contribute in time and money to GNU/Linux , I know you cant understand , but it as to do with respect ( of myself and others ) loyalty ( to my value and friends who have given me so much ) , responsability ( Someone need to stand up for freedom , you dont care so I got to do it ) , etc …
Might seem meaningless , to someone like you , and a lost cause , but hey I see nothing but progress , year after year after year.
” As for battery … make use of the hardware’s power-saving features.”
Like I said earlier , with the proper setup GNU/Linux double the battery life , what can I say GNU/Linux is made for more then just one type of computer serie and architecture.
I think this need reminding : no one is forcing you to use it. If you whant to learn properly there are thousand of people more qualified then me ready to help , if you whant to keep bitching , do so , GNU/Linux as been called useless since the first day it whas released. look its still here and growing , and your or I cant make it stop.
Why dont you write a full article about Mac OS X vs GNU/Linux on Apple Hardware and submit it here , who knows you might get people to fix it for everyone.
RedHat should just buy out TerraSoft and bring in the PPC engineers.
im maintaining my conspiricy theory that the are in fact already owned by apple 😀
It would be a good way to develop linux for the mac platform (pre intel switch) without locking themselfs into it. Terrasoft are also the ONLY company allowed to install their own os on mac hardware…
I’ve found the best way (for me) to run Linux on a Mac is running a graphical ssh terminal to my Linux server. I can run all Linux apps on the server either as separate OS X windows or, by running the Mac Xwindows app in full screen mode, I can have a complete KDE environment running remotely.
There’s a little bit of lag time for certain apps, but I get the best of both worlds, pure Linux and pure OS X with no incompatablities. It actually works quite well for Python programming since I’ve had bad luck getting MacPython to run correctly.
Beg pardon but you are running an X session on a mac which has absoutely nothing to do with running linux on a mac.
Begging your pardon, but I was being facetious. I was implying that the best way to run Linux on a Mac is to not run Linux on a Mac. Keeping them separate reduces the issues yet they can still play nicely together.
You can still have your Linux development, games, etc. but not have to give up on the “Mac experience”. The best tool for the job and all that.
I’m a pretty big linux/BSD fan myself, thou I would probably use OSX if I got myself a mac… I tried it at “apple house” or what it was called in Bergen once, really nice OS, at least when it comes to the graphical…
Linux Is Poo,
I currently have an iMac G5 for review from my local Apple shop. The review of the new features (as opposed to the old iMac G5, so Front Row etc.) will be published next week. And at the end of January, I will be reviewing a set of Linux distributions on this machine.
THEN we will see if Linux is REALLY useless on the Mac, as you claim. You are claiming a lot of stuff on OSNews, yet I’ve never seen an article from you detailing the shortcomings you see in Linux– an article developers can look at so they can improve upon their projects.
So, let’s just wait until my review is up, then we will truly see if Linux on the Mac is useless or not.
http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=13197&comment_id=82588
I’ve had a few live cds going on my iMac G5, Gentoo and Suse I think, and aside from the deafening fan noise, they both seemed decent.
Stability, performance and ease of use is what LIP was harping on the other day. But I posted pretty late in the game on that thread so I think it pretty much fell on deaf ears. So forgive me for repeating myself here.
Stability? Sure I wouldn’t go ahead and say the latest Fedora beta is stable. If that’s what you’re trying to say, then fine. But you’re going to sit there and tell me that something like RHEL, Slackware, or Debian isn’t stable? Please. I’m truely curious as to why you’d say that. Linux wins hands down over windows in my opinion, as I hardly ever have problems with my Linux servers and desktops. Windows machines on the other hand are always giving me problems.
Now granted I’ve never had much stability problems with a mac or with BSD’s, so I’d rate right up there with Linux stability-wise. But then I’d also say Linux wins hands down when it comes to stability on exotic hardware. Throw Debian and NetBSD on an old mac or an old SGI machine and tell me again which is stable.
Performance? Last benchmarks I checked, the 2.6 kernel came out on top in a number of areas. And I’d imagine that to this day Linux is definitely in the running. For one thing, look at the number of high performance clusters, webservers database servers, etc, out there that run Linux. And sure, performance might differ a bit between the various OS’s, but the 2.6 Linux kernel is certainly in the running. One thing I do know for sure performance isn’t one of OSX’s strong points. OSX is almost as bad as Windows when it comes to a bit of multitasking on a desktop.
Ease of use? Except for BSD, on which you’re most certainly wrong, I might have to give you that, from a user point of view at any rate. But then you’ve obviously never had to deal with Macs or Windows machines on a heterogeneous network. Get a job as an admin of a network with Windows, Linux, BSD, OSX, etc. and then get back to me with which is the easiest to use.
Edited 2006-01-06 22:37
Unfortunately forcing registration doesn’t automatically raise the level of all commentary, it just makes the twits register. I look forward to your review.
YDL sale the Imac G5
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/index.php?submit=hardware&s…][apple]=1
You might whant to contact them to see if they whant to ship you a Software copy of the installer :
http://terrasoftsolutions.com/tss_contact2.php
I’ve been looking at used laptops lately, and I’m really happy that I can run linux (and have a choice of good distros) on Apple laptops. I’m sure OSX is nice, but I run linux on all of my home machines (x86, SPARC, and MIPS.) I don’t want to have to learn a new OS and new applications. I want to run the same OS, the same window manager, and the same apps as I do on my home machines. Cheers to YDL and other linux for PPC developers for making that possible.
Edited 2006-01-06 22:58