A new update has brought back Microsoft’s recommendation for Bing and Chromium Edge on Windows 10. After Microsoft Edge 91, Windows 10 has now started displaying a pop-up message that appears through Windows 10’s built-in notification center.
The nag prompt enthusiastically addresses users on the benefits of using “Microsoft Bing” as the default search engine. And as you might guess, this prompt is being delivered only when Microsoft Edge is not the default browser or you’ve moved away from Bing to another search engine manually.
Apple and Microsoft are cramming ever more ads into their platforms – platforms you pay to use, making the practice even more user-hostile. I’m so glad I left Windows, macOS, and iOS behind – they treat users like credit cards on legs. It’s dreadful.
They already have a monopoly. How much more do they want?
The want more monopolies (to use a monopoly for desktop OS to gain a monopoly for browsers and then gain another monopoly for web search).
What monopoly? Yes you have to know about computing to avoid it, however monopoly? There are hundreds of different alternatives to Windows and MaxOS. You just have to know stuff.
Monopoly is when there are nothing else at all.
“In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge overly high prices, which is associated with a decrease in social surplus.” ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
Go to Walmart, Best Buy, Target, Microcenter, or any other big box retailer where computers are sold. Try to find a desktop computer or laptop that ships with anything other than Windows installed. Ask the sales staff to point you to the section with Linux distros or BSD install discs for sale. Let us know how that works out for you. If you’re really lucky you’ll find the Apple section where you can get a Mac mini or MacBook Air at $200 over Apple’s own inflated retail price, which is an incentive for you to just go with a Windows machine instead.
Or, go into any Fortune 500 company or government agency. Check out the workstations at each desk. If you see anything other than Windows 10 and the occasional Windows 7 install (for backwards compatibility with some esoteric piece of hardware or deprecated software), you should play the lottery because you just found a unicorn.
As Thom mentioned in the article about Google up above, some people will just blindly defend these indefensible megacorporations for some reason, even as said corporations are stepping all over their defenders. Blind fanaticism and fetishism of one’s oppressors is a sad thing to witness.
MS no longer has a monopoly, they used to, but nowadays, there are 3 companies that own the personal computing market. Microsoft, Apple, and Google. PCs are just one facet of a much more complex marketplace then 1999
You’re not wrong; Apple and Google share domination in the mobile space, but within the scope of the discussion (desktop/laptop computers) it’s Microsoft hovering at about 80% market share[1]. That’s more than enough control of the market to meet the legal definition of a monopoly.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/the-worlds-second-most-popular-desktop-operating-system-isnt-macos-anymore/
Monopoly is a distraction. Yes there is a definition and yes companies may not meet that definition in the strictest sense but people may use “monopoly” as shorthand. Regulators may also consider abuse of market position and cartels. Also note the definitions and practices of different jurisdictions are different. The EU regime is much more by the book and more on the side of citizens than the US .
Is it really a standard notification?
The first thing I did when I saw it was go into notification settings to disable notifications for the bing desktop wallpaper app. But it did not show in there at all – so I assumed Microsoft was doing a dirty trick and using non-native notifications so that users can’t hide them using the normal method.
I’ve been a Mac user for 35 years, I use my iMac every single day, I’ve never seen an advert served by Apple other than an occasional reminder to update the OS (I usually wait several ‘point’ updates before upgrading the OS). Not sure where people think ads from Apple appear in MacOS?
Maybe they are referring to the Mac App store? Not sure as my time using a mac was just frustrating as it feels like it should be like using a Linux desktop, but one which you are not allowed to customize, lacks a good package system, and is clunky in other ways.
It is like going to restaurants. Sometines you get used to the service and the food, and while the more expensive place is different, it doesn’t make it better. But then you have McDonalds, the Microsoft of food. Where co-workers force you to eat there…
leech,
+1
Your analogy made me laugh 🙂
Well, I’ve been a Mac user for about fifteen years, and in the last couple of versions, I have seen an ad for Apple services… but only when I open those apps and never outside of them. With iOS though, I have seen the occasional ad for Apple services that I don’t use pop up in the notification center. So, there are ads in some of Apple’s operating systems, for Apple’s own services. The comparison is thus a fair one when compared to iOS/iPadOS.
I left Windows in 2016. There are a few situations, were I still boot up my old Win7 laptop. One example is when I have to diskcopy a floppy disk with Ms Dos related content. Else I am fully running Linux.
I am using macOS and iOS from the very first versions and never seen an ads. I’ve used Chrome and seen a lot of ads comparing to Firefox, and having the constant feelings everything I did/view was tracked by Google. Don’t understand you when you make this sort of comments leaving out the worse ads platform turned browser/OS from the list. Are you Google/Android fan, right?
I never understood this relentless drive for “monetization” via online services that Microsoft is attempting in Windows 10. Did Microsoft ever have an issue selling Windows for a price? No. Never. Why “monetize”? Do they think that the couple of bucks added to the price of a Windows laptop due to the Windows license compared to Chromebooks is that important? It’s not (and yes, it’s a couple of bucks really, Dell and HP don’t exactly pay OEM DSP prices). But I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft execs think it is important.
My only guess is that the failure of Windows Phone has deeply scarred the company at an emotional level, and internally the failure gets explained away by the fact that Windows Phone came with a price tag, and not the fact that Windows Phone was late to the game and lacked features, apps and UI appeal compared to Android. So, they are like “we are not going to be beaten again, we will slowly transition to giving Windows 10 away for free”.
The problem is that nobody uses Microsoft’s online services, not in a way that will make them spend money anyway. Google’s sell was “here is Android, it integrates with the Gmail, Google Search etc that you already use”. Microsoft is run by morons.
The reason I am making this guess is that Paul Thurott (aka Microsoft’s unofficial PR department) has publicly accused Google of dumping Android to hurt Windows Phone, so if you connect the dots this is probably the official explanation for why Windows Phone’s failed over at Redmond. Google dumping Android is true, but it’s what doomed Windows Phone eventually (the impact on phone price was between negligible and none).
kurkosdr,
Consumers were staying longer and longer with the older operating systems because they were good enough for their needs and there wasn’t much value in upgrading. Windows 9 did so poorly that microsoft decided it was time to throw in the towel on that business model and make windows 10 a free upgrade in exchange for advertising revenue, haha.
Well, plenty of people use MS collaboration tools and arguably they’re not bad. But they really lost ground with mobile, they had too little too late.
This doesn’t explain why Microsoft gave away free upgrades to Windows 10 to anyone who bought a PC the last 10 years or why they will allow users to upgrade from a cracked Windows 7 installation to clean and activated Windows 10 and give them a big fat “hardware entitlement” as a bonus. No WGA checks, no nothing. We are talking about a company that, in the past, refused to offer a discount for Windows Vista users wishing to upgrade (a well-deserved discount in my opinion, since we acted as paying beta-testers for Windows 7), and required WGA to give you frickin’ Movie Maker. If they were worrying about people keeping their systems longer, the logical path is to not give them any free upgrades. Make no mistake, Microsoft is trying to change the way they make money from Windows in the consumer space, because they think ChromeOS will do an Android on Windows (an unsubstantiated fear in my opinion, but as I said, Android emotionally scarred Redmond). The reason Windows still technically has a license is because they have to keep up the pretenses so business users will not ask for free copies too.
Windows 9?
I know, the company I work for uses Microsoft online services exclusively (Outlook, Teams and OneDrive), because they got them with a bundle with Office. Gone is our beloved Google Suite after the merger. Still, this doesn’t explain how they will make money from consumers using their online services, which is where all the “monetization” plan of Windows 10 hinges on. Do they expect Bing to pull advertising revenue, or people to buy space in OneDrive, or buy apps from the barren Microsoft Store?
This is also why I don’t buy the nonsense that Windows 10 will be the “last Windows version”. When the whole “monetization” nonsense inevitably falls flat on its face, they will be back to selling Windows licenses for realsies.
kurkosdr,
I think they were worried that users would just stick with windows 7 and not bother to pay for an upgrade.
Yes, it was a joke.
Hmm, I don’t know enough to comment on what their advertising & service financials look like.
Maybe, but in order for that to work I think they’d need to focus on what real customers want instead of ignoring them and cramming unwanted features and tracking into the OS. IMHO their “we don’t care what customers want” phase did a lot of damage to the windows brand, I don’t know how easy it would be to go back.
They’re still making lots of money with the windows tax on most new commodity computers, which is quite annoying for those of us buy them to install linux.
This is what I mean when I say Microsoft is run by idiots. They want to emulate Apple on the functional front (without having anything close to Apple’s cult power or vertical integration) and Google on the financial front (without having anything close to Google’s AdWords or YouTube). Nothing is sadder than a company not knowing their strengths, and doing things that play against their strengths.
Lenovo will sell you a Windows-less computer. So will Dell (XPS 13 Developer Edition). But if you are looking for something like the Alienware 51m to be sold Windows-less, the obvious question is: why?
What you should not expect is to save money equivalent to an OEM DSP license when opting for a Windows-less laptop. As I said before, companies like Lenovo, Dell and HP don’t pay anything close to OEM DSP, and the cost of the Windows license is offset by crapware and AV subscriptions (the OEM receives a cut every time the subscription is renewed), so by paving over and installing Desktop Linux, you are back to zero gain/loss. There is no “Windows tax” A valid complaint is that lots of PC hardware only cares about compatibility with Windows, but that’s not a “tax”.
Opting for a FreeDOS (Windows-less) laptop is a bad move financially, because you are giving up a free Windows activation. Paving over a Windows laptop with a fresh installation removes all the crapware and AV trials and essentially gives you a free Windows activation. In the older days, you even got a free Windows key to install in a VM, but that’s gone now. You still get the free activation though.
The only reason to not get a Windows laptop is if the laptop is specially tuned for Linux (System76), or because you have ethical concerns with giving Microsoft your money and have zero use for Windows (even as dual-boot).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yal92cru6_w
But if you don’t mind giving Microsoft some money, it makes sense to not leave that free activation on the table (paid for by those AV vendors that still think there is a market for paid AVs).
kurkosdr,
Buying a windows license we have no intention of using is a windows tax. For example I can longer buy some of the components to build my own desktop systems. I’ve been on a manufacturer waiting list for GPUs for a full 7 months now, I have no choice but to buy these from a prebuilt manufacturer and pay the associated windows tax.
Well, I searched for dell desktops with an RTX3080 GPU, and only a single system came up. Alas the windows tax is there.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/desktops-all-in-one-pcs/alienware-aurora-r12-gaming-desktop/spd/alienware-aurora-r12-desktop/wdaurr1240hsb
There are linux vendors, but they are extremely niche and buying hardware through them costs a lot more $$$ compared to mass market brands. Similar components can cost almost twice as much as mainstream vendors.
https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-major-b2/configure
I’ve been using cyberpowerpc, which offers offer a decent parts selection, they have a couple month backlog but at least it’s better than trying to build your own system right now. There too they have the windows tax. So if you have any other suggestions for commodity PC vendors that don’t charge the windows tax, I’m all ears.
kurkosdr,
It’s not “free” though. Those “free” windows licenses are subsidized through your purchase. Some vendors will explicitly itemize windows license cost, but your stilling paying for it regardless of whether they itemize it.
If you want an RTX 3080 system without Windows, you are a niche. These are typically sold as hi-end gamer systems, which for most people means Windows. Alienware is a hi-end gaming brand.
Still, the cost of the Windows license is paid by the crapware and AV trials bundled, so it doesn’t come out of your pocket. Dell also doesn’t pay for Windows. The crapware and AV trials they install does.
I understand if you don’t want to give money to Microsoft for ethical reasons. If so, you are out of luck indeed.
kurkosdr,
It’s high end sure, but I’d argue that it’s not very niche given that nearly all PC vendors sell it. The telsa cards are niche. Anyways this is tangential to the point at hand.
I agree they probably get some kind of kickback for installing trialware, but it’s not going to amount to nearly the cost of a windows license and it’s likely that kickbacks increase their profits and don’t just get passed onto the customer. Is there any solid evidence that contradicts either of these points?
I’d like to emphasize that It’s not just an anti-microsoft sentiment. It’s ethically problematic to be forced to pay for anything one doesn’t want or need. Obviously linux is niche and vendors have very little incentive to care about us. But it really sucks that microsoft is profiting off of our our purchases when they do nothing whatsoever to deserve it. It’s likely that Microsoft has taken several hundred dollars of unearned license fees from me alone. Over the decades I’m sure MS have collected a not-insubstantial amount of money from linux users collectively.
I realize it’s not your battle and that’s ok. But I hope you can understand why it frustrates us.
If this is the case, they should have made Windows 10 a free OS service, and no longer requiring users to enter product keys in exchange for ads. Then offered the product key form if users wanted privacy and no ads.
That’s a win-win situation for a for profit company.
We should continue to pursue the year of the Linux desktop. This is entirely possible, because Linux on the desktop is ready for primetime. The only difficult is how to make a large migration of users to Linux dekstop.
Microsoft wants it both ways. They want businesses to pay and consumers to be “monetized” via ads and also pay when they buy licenses themselves if possible (aka not via pre-installs). Funnily enough, they seem to think “monetization” is a better opportunity than selling licenses, so good luck getting them to offer a “monetization-free” version. They will double-dip if possible, but if that’s not possible, they will go the “monetization” route. At the same time, they want to make licenses for OEMs free of charge (to counter the perceived threat of ChromeOS being free, which is BS because for OEMs Windows is already essentially free of charge).
There has been no pursuing for the year of the Linux desktop for decades btw. The community has abandoned the dream and have retreated back to the “from the developer for the developer” safe zone. You can whine as long as you want about the fact the Wayland transition is taking so long, or that PulseAudio and ALSA have issues, or that Wine is far behind. Nobody cares anymore, and ultimately there is no real funding for those things. The pursuit for the Linux desktop essentially stopped when RedHat killed their desktop product. And now that threats like ActiveX are long gone, the communitah don’t even have to pretend they pursue the year of the Linux desktop. As I ‘ve said before, we are headed towards a Malaise Era, with little being a weak alternative for most.
* with little being a weak alternative for most. = with Linux being a weak alternative for most.
Fixing a few issues at the top would solve a lot of problems with Linux. These problems have been known about for years. Some proper HCI and design at the interface level, a stable driver model like Windows, gettign Wine up to standard so it’s usable out of the box as easily as Windows or OS/2 subsystems, and less of a nerdy approach to applications development so apps have a consistent look and feel. Paying attention to developer tools would be a big help with this last point. I’m sure there’s more issues but this covers the big ones.
I’ve heard all the counter arguments and reasons and general friction over the years and basically have the attitude that random small time script kiddies and big mouth bloggers cannot get anything done to save their lives. They like pontificating and like arguing too much. You can go away and come back in another ten years and they will still be circling the same drain. One reason why organisations like Microsoft and Apple et al get things done is people whose only input is this get fired and go and work somewhere else more usefully.
HollyB,
To be fair though most linux users aren’t using linux to run windows programs. It can work well enough in cases where the publisher officially supports it, like with steam games. But in general most of us would recommend running windows programs on windows, perhaps in a VM for compatibility reasons.
It’s interesting to compare this with WSL 1 (microsoft’s parallel equivalent to wine for running linux applications on windows). Microsoft superseded WSL 1 with WSL 2, which uses a virtual machine and much easier to support.
I think there’s plenty of arguing and disagreement to go around regardless of one’s preferred platform, haha.
When I was primarily a windows user trying linux I was often looking for windows equivalents on linux. This became the metric by which I’d judge linux at the time. But you know what, when you are a linux user a lot of this interest in having linux mimick windows largely fades. I suspect the same is true for mac users. Everyone has different backgrounds and tastes.