Running Windows on a phone has long been a dream for Microsoft enthusiasts, especially after the company discontinued their Windows Phones. While we may never see Microsoft’s vision for a phone running Windows 11, some young developers have shown us a preview of the operating system running on Android phones.
We may end up in a world where Windows 11 will run on old Android phones, but not on computers with 7th gen Intel Core processors.
In all seriousness, this is amazing and cool, and shows just how versatile Windows NT really is. Excellent work by these enthousiasts, and it keeps the dream alive.
Myself I think the developers are too quick to want to do something “cool” while Microsoft not only played a major hand in destroying the European phone industry (and IC fab industry along with it) but threw millions of users perfectly adequate computers onto the scrapheap with Windows 11. “Flat design” was “cool” to someone. Microsoft being people pleasing bangle wearing hipsters is “cool” to someone. Mostly themselves I suspect but nonetheless like Google et al receives a lot of uncritical puplicity.
I think it’s just another reason why the tech industry needs regulation. Not to ban people from doing “cool” things but introduce ethics and social responsibility where there is none.
HollyB,
I used to own an HTC HD2, which was a ill fated Windows phone 6.5 device. However it was also able to run Android, Windows Phone 7 (with hacks), or even Windows 95 (in emulator). This was before locked bootloaders, and mobile OS lockdowns.
Currently we have perfectly(*) capable Windows 10 installers for Raspberry PI ARM devices. However Microsoft no longer gives direct installers, and you need to go though hoops to obtain them (albeit still legally). There are missing drivers, and this otherwise nice system is not officially supported.
And it is not only Windows. If you want to install an open source version of Android, one usually finds their phone’s bootloader to be locked. If it is not, then similar to Windows, drivers could be missing … even for standard things like Bluetooth access. And if you can overcome everything, then apps will just refuse to run, or run at reduced capacity, since you could be a dreaded pirate, and what business would you have running Netflix on a custom OS?
Overall computing is going in the opposite direction of what I would like.
On the other hand, giving the control to government instead of big business would not be any better. They would want to install backdoors (which they already have for the GSM network infrastructure), and customer needs would not be on the top of their priorities. Again, it is another tough problem to solve.
This is why we have things like constitutions and laws. Yes I know “big” government and “big” business and “big” whatever get up to tricks but you find this everywhere. Again, this is why we have courts. Collectively we have been on the receiving end of decades of Chicago School econoics and other vested interests trying to undermine the UK and EU and “both-sideism” and defenistrated and now clickbait lazy journalism. Overall everything is going in directions people do not like but they are not having it all their own way and in some instances their bluff has been well and truly called.
Government can be a force for good and sound regulation based on sound legal principles is effective and that is why the neo-con (almost always loud mouth American right wing) oppose it.
I have been keeping my eye on a few things and over this past month some court cases dropped. In the European courts is very clear which direction things are moving in and overall it is positive. At the same time there have been some unpleasant resolutions in the cess pit we call America. Note Europe is not America. Nor is Europe South Korea.
It’s not a tough problem to solve. Courts have ruled again and again on these issues. In fact this is a reason why some many American (and Russian and Chinese and the Saudi’s) want to own European assets or set up lobbying companies or pour so much money into dodgy interests. They want to influence Europe and European politicians and courts and public opinion to swallow the reality they want to sell us. The European parliament is very very much aware of this as is the European Commission and by and large telling them to hack off. Even the post-Brexit UK Tory government isn’t entirely asleep at the wheel with this though it is slight, I grant you.
Regulation has been proven to work time and time again with many endevours. Indeed, without regulation it is entirely possible some industries may not exist because they would have destroyed themselves with dog eat dog infighting so regulation is in their interest. In the UK at least in law the legal entity we call companies exists because they are a creation of the state. While they like to strut and throw their weight around as if they are gods banking exists as a wholly regulated industry and, yes, citizens do have rights with respect to banking services and access to banking. In fact I doubt there is a single thing about smartphones which isn’t touched by regulation in some way from the chemicals used during manufacture to health and safety at work to which airwaves are accessible, and everything which enables this to happen.
HollyB,
I would not demonize the Chicago School. I know it is all political, however the largest current “UBI” system is actually the brain child of Milton Friedman. In the US we have what is called “Earned Income Credit”, a variation of a “negative income tax”, which gives taxpayers up to $6,728 for 2021. Nothing to write home about, but for some families $500/mo extra money is significant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax
Back to topic… I find US much better than EU by comparison. Obviously we are in different sides of the pond; both literally thanks to Atlantic, and figuratively.
I could write a very long essay on why this is so, but of course it is unlikely any of us will change our positions.
It’s very unlikley I’m going to budge. I’m not completely sure you’re understanding the Chicago School or Milton Friedman, or the difference between Europe and the US.
UBI is not “negative income tax” (or after this “negative income tax” idea was lazily poached wholesale by a previous UK administration “tax credits”. UBI is something completely different. “Negative income tax” assumes a certain work until you drop exploitative economic model. UBI is more a progressive social policy. Both have very different starting points so to drag Milton Friedmon in and whitewash him as a saint who invented or endorsed UBI is really not going to fly.
I have no interest in listening to US willy waving.
With all that being said you still haven’t addressed the issue of regulation…
HollyB,
I get that you have a different point of view. However, how would calling my comments “US willy waving” will help move the conversation?
@sukru
I’m not responding to reframing the subject (you’ve done it twice) nor the shirty comments from the new faces around here. In any case this is getting too far off topic and nothing is being added which couldn’t be read elsewhere with a search.
HollyB,
Sukru is one of the nicest & professional people we have on osnews, He was keeping the conversation academic and I think he’s right to call out “US willy waving” as an insult that does little more than raise the temperature of the argument without adding value to the conversation. BTW I had to lookup the word “shirty” – “angry, irritated.”. I found your use of it to be a bit…ironic. Anyways I learned a new word and for that thank you
Anyways back to the subject of UBI, I’m not very well versed in this subject and I find it to be an interesting topic. I tend to agree that the US often gets things wrong and the EU is more progressive on a whole lot of issues. I find our “top down” economics completely one sided, but it is exists because big money interests are disproportionately represented here. For better or worse, US politicians can afford to ignore the poor and even middle class. Sure it’s to the detriment of the country, but we don’t fund their campaigns so what do they care. And they have a very effective strategy of just blaming the other party for absolutely everything, facts be damned. I like to learn more about how things work in other countries to see if they’d have a solution to our problems. I think the biggest obstacles facing our country come down to political corruption – our politics are so broken and corrupt. I have no idea how to fix this though, is corruption ever curable?
Alfman,
Thank you.
I was going to write a long comment on how we have differing opinions, but can still learn from each other. However, I don’t think it is necessary.
On the middle class in America: This would be a really long topic. But basically US middle class “failed upwards”. Many become richer, and lost touch with the rest of the population. (It became easy to have a million dollars net worth near retirement. I think that is now 25% of the population in 45-55 range). That also means their collective political power is also divided.
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-american-net-worth
That is a problem, since innovation and hard work is replaced by rent seeking. And it is not too difficult to see our European cousins being badly affected.
Like selling junk investments in the 2007 crisis, and causing a large crash in Portuguese real estate.
Or, increasing copyright and patent protections so much so that previously fair usage are no longer possible.
At this point I am concerned. But I don’t have too much political insight to see what can be done.
sukru,
That makes me feel like I’m in the wrong line of work because I honestly don’t know if I’ll be able to retire comfortably. It comes down to whether you can get in with a good paying job. I started my career working with small businesses, that’s where my contacts were/are, sadly though the majority of them have closed. The biggest company I worked for was a large insurance company, but they ended up off-shoring their IT staff. I spoke to a family friend in california who worked with big companies and talking to him makes it sound like everyone in IT is doing great, but I also hear about tech workers in silicon valley who can’t even afford housing. It feels like there’s not only a huge economic gap, but also a huge networking gap (ie those who already have good jobs have much better opportunities).
The net worth link you cited compares average net worth of $748,000 to median net worth of $121,700. Obviously the $121k figure represents the very middle. Having an average over 6X the median signifies how skewed things are towards the top. This link has a bar chart that gives the same data in a bit more detail:
https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles-by-age/
Yeah, neither do I. It seems unlikely that we’re going to address the causes of economic disparity any time soon. And you were right before, it would be a very long topic.
Thom: *posts Windows 11 news*
HollyB: “WINDOWS 11 OBSOLETES MY SHITBOX PC REEEEEEEE”
It sure as hell didn’t. All those 5+ year old old computers that won’t run Windows 11 will still get updates for Windows 10 for another 5 years.
Some people still expect to run Windows on a Core 2. Yet a vastly better Raspberry Pi 4 would pay for itself in a few months due to electricity savings.
Goes to show that “Windows phones” are only dormant as a concept and could return at any point if Microsoft were so inclined.
With Android support being added in Win 11 (Amazon store) I predict that partnership will find a hardware supplier at some point if android apps take off on the desktop (like they have on MacOS)
As much as I dislike Microsoft as a company, and Windows 10 in general, I was always fond of Windows Phone. I had the very first WP7 device on Sprint (HTC Arrive, aka HTC 7 Pro) as well as several Nokia WP7/8/10 models afterwards. The platform, from a user interface and immersion point of view, was nearly perfect and got better with each major release. I didn’t care that it couldn’t run x86 Windows apps or Android apps, the built in functionality was so much better than Android and iOS at the time (though today both have greatly improved) that all my basic needs were covered. It was fast, fluid, and responsive on even mediocre hardware, something I wish Microsoft had been able to match on the desktop computing side, and something Android still struggles with to this day.
I get why the platform was killed, and if it were to make a comeback with Windows 11 I doubt I’d switch back as a daily driver, but I’d still love to see Windows 11 officially supported on phones again, even if as Thom said, it would leave very recent x86 hardware behind.
Well, judging by the current system requirements of Windows 11, Microsoft is about to treat desktop computers exactly the way they treated mobile phones. Remember how most WP7 phones were not compatible with WP8 because Microsoft said so, and not due to any hardware limitation?
I sometimes wonder if the management at Microsoft are collectively suffering from some sort of insanity.
These ports are nearly 100% unusable though and people do it just for fun mostly.
That’s also why I’m completely unimpressed by things like this.
You can’t even make phone calls with this port. It sort of defeats entire the purpose of a *phone*.
It’s a first attempt by hobby hackers using a build not intended for phones in the first place, of course it’s not going to be 100% ready for use and fully supported. You’re completely missing the point (or just trolling again).
Linus Tech Tips goes into details of the various approaches to avoiding installation checks and getting Windows 11 to work. Details are also given about Windows actual compatibility going back to Windows 7 and how a combination of Mcirosoft pushing WDDM 3.0 and greedy IHV’s conspires to push forced obsolecence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NivpAiuh-s0
More trouble for Microsoft. The article goes on to explain how Microsoft have been trying to flip companies from owning perpetual licences to subscriptions.Myself I feel Microsoft is still the same old bad Microsoft. Times have just changed and instead of using their monopoly power to force OEM deals they are up to a similar game with software as a service. It’s just a different means to the same end.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/12/valuelicensing_microsoft_competition_lawsuit_270m/