Next month we’re bringing new experiences to Windows that include a public preview of how you can use Android apps on Windows 11 through the Microsoft Store and our partnerships with Amazon and Intel, taskbar improvements with call mute and unmute, easier window sharing and bringing weather to the taskbar, plus the introduction of two new redesigned apps, Notepad and Media Player.
Definitely some welcome changes for Windows users.
I’m not missing Windows and pretty much blanking out all the circulating marketing and propaganda on this topic. I trialed and used Windows and Linux Mint with cross-platform apps in dual boot and with both hosting each other in a VM for over a year. Windows 11 was the last straw and I switched over within weeks of announcing this decision. The next point release of Linux Mint contains equivalent bullet points for those who care. I cannot think of any pressing need to run Android apps on a desktop OS. On Mint I also have a weather applet on the taskbar configured to get its data from the Met Office. For UK weather the Met Office are the gold standard. Their work as well as Ordnance Survey is worth reading up on. Arguably it was their work which won D-Day although this is by no means to grab the glory or downplay others efforts to rid the world of the Nazi’s.
I’m not a big fan of public previews (or beta as they used to be called). My view is if you need a public beta you A.) Don’t know what you are doing or B.) It’s a marketing exercise. There is the much rarer C.) Seeking feedback because you’re including users in the decision loop. That’s fine if it means something.
I still think Microsoft need to get done for abuse of market position over Windows 10/11. I’m also squinting very hard at Microsoft’s increase in profits of 20%.
Congratulation on posting on a windows article the equivalent of the Onion’s “Man who doesn’t own a TV” unironically, it takes real skill to reach the level of Onion parody without even knowing it…
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469
BTW I hate to break the news to ya but Linux adoption? Hasn’t changed in over 24 years. It didn’t change when Vista plopped down like a steaming turd on the sidewalk, it didn’t change when Windows “apps apps apps and did I mention touchscreens? Oh and apps” 8 took 3 steps onto the world stage then promptly fell on its face and never got up again, and it will gain exactly zero share when win 11 becomes the default in 2025.
Because lets be honest…Linux sucks, it really does. Oh its great on servers or when controlled by Google on smartphones but on a desktop? Go watch Linus Tech Tips Linux challenge and watch how fast Linux craps the bed just attempting the most basic of tasks, it would be comical if it wasn’t 2022 as it honestly reminded me of the daysd of win9X where even a simple task could equal a BSOD. If you have nothing better to do with your day than fiddle and Google and beg on forums for help or your idea of “using a PC” is a grandma that looks at her email? Well good for you, glad it works but frankly you’d probably get more utility of a tablet with less BS, but for those of us that actually need to do work on our computers? There is Windows and OSX and…yeah thats it, just 2.
10 print “Thank you !”
20 goto 10
@bassbeast
That’s the best article I’ve ever read in my life! Thank you!
Edit:
On the subject of LTT (I haven’t watched the video series). Isn’t he using some “ricer” type distro (Manjaro?) instead of one that’s actually designed for your average dumb user like Mint or Ubuntu?
If so it’s no wonder he has problems lol
Part 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M
Part 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8IGy6I9Wo
Part 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtsglXhbxno
Part 4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4K16ujFw
Yeah, Manjaro, but the user is not supposed to know some distro are more “consumer oriented”. You can use “Windows Server” just as well. Why should Linux Desktop be any different ? He encountered issues that just shouldn’t exist anymore. But not just in 2022, but even since 2002.
Drag’n droping files ? Come on…
@Kochise
Thanks for the links but I won’t give him the views as he’s a moron that equates adblocking to piracy.
“Yeah, Manjaro, but the user is not supposed to know some distro are more “consumer oriented”.”
I disagree. A consumer should be aware of what they are “buying” and whether it’s suitable for their needs no matter what the product is.
If a farmer bought a supercar instead of a tractor and complained it doesn’t do what he needs despite the car having the same V8 engine as a tractor then he really has no one to blame but himself.
Would you have the same view if he tried to run his server farm on Android?
No, an operating system must be able to perform “basic” tasks without having a degree. It is not about supercar vs tractor, it is the two having four wheels and a gear. And a driver should be able to drive them all the same to get to his destination, regardless of the speed.
It was all about Linux Desktop as a daily driver. Obviously performing some “basic” tasks are not even possible on Linux Desktop.
And Android is another beast since it is not the purpose of the series.
That’s nonsense.
He’s used (probably intentionally given the clickbaity crap he’s famous for) something not suitable for his purposes.
V8 engine + Aston Martin car
V8 engine + Tractor
Those are the equivalent of:
Linux kernel + Ricer crap designed for autistic teens
Linux kernel + ChromeOS desktop
Choosing an Aston Martin for your farm is exactly the same as choosing Manjaro as a Windows replacement.
And a Windows replacement is exactly what he wanted. So why choose something that clearly doesn’t suit the purpose he specifically requires?
I just googled for “Linux Desktop Windows alternative” and Manjaro isn’t even on the first page of results. He’s gone out of his way to find some obscure thing that doesn’t even appear on a Google search and doesn’t even do what he requires.
He knew exactly what he was doing here, generating “controversy” because he’s whoring for views…
But on the off chance that you are correct, I’m going to go and eat my dinner with a pitch fork and a stanley knife. 😉
One used Pop OS and the other used IIRC Manjaro and…yeah both installs crapped all over themselves just trying to do the most basic of tasks like get their steam games to work or get sound out their rigs.
And glad you liked the article but every time i see a “Cult of The Penguin” user that comes to have their little rant on a WINDOWS article I always think of the Onion “Man doesn’t own a TV” because of how pathetic and insecure they are, I mean do you see OSX users rushing to post on Windows articles? or Windows users rushing to talk about how they don’t buy Apple? Nope its the insecure little Cult of The Penguin types and we ALL know the reason, its because deep down they know Linus is right…it really does blow as a desktop OS.
And no the choice of OS really shouldn’t matter as they were doing the most basic of things like “Install steam from repo” and “drag and drop files” and I’m sorry but if in 2022 you can’t even do those most basic tasks? you are unsuitable for purpose,
This is so on the nose it made me chuckle 🙂
bassbeast,
I do think you’re countering anti-windows bias with anti-linux bias. The truth is likely somewhere in between the extremes and in fact a whole lot of people in my industry have switched to linux specifically for work just like I have.
Nope sorry but on a desktop? It blows. If you want to talk embedded or server that is a different kettle of fish and there it works VERY well as millions of dollars of R&D is spent to make it so but on desktop? Yeah…no, just no.
Again if your idea of “using a PC” is “look at a website and read email” then sure it’ll work but again you’d be better off with a tablet with less BS but if you actually need to do any work other than coding? Its gonna blow. I should know as I’ve sent more PCs to the dump because they didn’t have the power to run windows but when I tried all the “friendly” distros like Ubuntu or Zorin or Vector or whatever the flavor of the day was? It never failed, so many issues just getting the most basic of hardware to work or even getting it to do the most basic of tasks like “update from repo using the GUI without BSODing” I found it was simply better to just throw the hardware in the garbage, the many many hours I would waste just trying to get an OS that feels buggier than win9x to work simply wasn’t worth my time.
bassbeast,
I can understand why you dislike anti-windows bias, but you arguments are just as if not more biased in the other direction and those exaggerations trump your objectivity when it comes to linux. Average users can be perfectly fine on linux as long as it’s preinstalled the way windows is for an apples to apples comparison.
We’ve got both microsoft and apple copying the linux repo model, it’s arguably easier and safer than downloading and installing software. The main weakness for linux was installing out of repo software, but snaps and flatpak make that easier too.
Sure there are many gripes and you are obviously free not to like linux for yourself, but you seem hell bent on declaring that linux is completely unusable by anyone other than experts, which is ridiculous. Even kids can use it just fine, I would know. The biggest problem for linux is that there is no commercial support network like there is for windows because virtually all the local shops serve the windows monopoly. So I concede linux has a brick and mortar support problem, but the difficulties of using linux are largely being exaggerated.
Well, we are all posting on OSnews so apparently none of us has enough REAL work to to. Linux as a mainstram desktop option may never come ( ignoring Chromebooks and Android ) but that is not because it sucks as bad as you say.
My main work laptop runs Windows 10. It is broken right now ( Dell’s fault – no
Have you ever heard the phrase “don’t teach your grandmother to suck eggs”? I use what I need to use for the job I need to do.
I’m currently refusing to work with men and getting a lot more done! I’m working with some amazing professional women and don’t have to put up with overblown race to the end white knights or shouty gammons half a heartbeat away from bursting an artery.
Stay ignorant. It’s no loss to me!
Wow… got to love it when people go so extreme they go full on sexist…
I agree with CapEnt… not only that, but software in general sucks. But then if every bit of software was perfect, and did everything we could ever want and was 100% secure… well alot of people would be jobless!
I regularly switch between Windows 10, Debian (with Gnome), RHEL (with Gnome), Arch (also Gnome) and macOS. Occasionally I will play with KDE, Enlightenment, WMaker, etc…
I personally prefer using Gnome to just get shit done. All other desktop operating systems I have used seem to get in my way somehow or another. Though the next closest I think to being wonderful to work on is Workbench on the Amiga. So many things with how it works make a lot of sense in regard to the metaphor they were going for! It is an actual pleasure to use, instead of say Finder, where there are different behaviors of the keyboard based on if you are in list or icon mode…
Windows, I always feel as if I could go to a site and be infected… it is the software equivalent of going into a public restroom, and you may step on a used needle…
Then there are the plethora of patches that randomly won’t install or even show up, or when they do install, break software. While that does happen on Linux, the transparency makes it much better to deal with!
By the way, Linux usage on Steam has risen up to a steady 2%. That is GAMING. Just a guess, but a huge majority of desktop Linux users do not game… they are likely professionals and also tend to be more privacy leaning and so less likely to have any telemetry enabled to be able to even remotely be able to gauge the actual market share…
Qs far as LTT’s issue that hosed PoP_OS! That was 100% a bug caused by his lack of patience and FORCING a bad package install.
@ leech
It appears to be a racist too. :/
So if you’re refusing to work with men, what would your response be to someone who likewise refused to work with women?
I find it easier to juts work with cats.
Let’s be honest… Windows sucks. MacOS sucks.
All desktops OSs so far sucks, nobody ever got all these layers of complexity stacked on top of each other right so far, and the problem is just getting worse as hardware gets more complex and more legacy stuff piles over time.
The enormous multi-billion market of “help desk” corporations all over the world just attempting to get that misery of a OS called Windows barely functional for it’s users to work for another day before it breaks again is proof enough. Unless you idea of “using a PC” is a grandma that looks at her mail, of course.
@CapEnt
Feathering of a nest, imagine how much richer the same might be if all the dependant users had to have support to build solutions for Linux under Bash! It would be like the funny front screen MacOS users sometimes see The Techie open!
My experience subcontracting such support services has lead me to believe never again, we had 10x the problems!
There are valid reasons for wanting tu run Android apps on a desktop. Sure, most of the apps have desktop alternatives that give a better experience but there are some that don’t. For example banking apps or some niche ones.
Well, it’s nice to see that Microsoft finally got around to releasing the “embrace” part of their “embrace, extend, extinguish” plan.
I’m sorry, are you from the past?
Yes, I’m from the past. Were you born yesterday?
Meanwhile, the current version of Windows (both 10 and 11) breaks L2TP VPN connections with the latest KB. Considering how many people are working remote at the moment, I couldn’t care less about Android app support. They really need to concentrate on not breaking essential features before coming out with new whiz-bangs. I know there’s supposed to be an out-of-band patch to fix this, but as of yet none of my machines will see it. So yeah Microsoft, fix your broken crap before you go all feature-crazy.
darknexus,
You don’t say, we’re actually working around TLS1.3 bugs in windows’ crypto libs at the moment, haha.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68904306/has-anyone-tried-using-tls-1-3-using-schannel
Fortunately for microsoft the edge browser no longer uses windows crypto since rebranding the FOSS chromium browser as the new edge browser.
Wait, it gets better: there’s just two mainstream x86-64 processor manufacturers out there, and somehow MS don’t bother to test their main product with one of them.
There’s another TPM Windows 11 madness crapfest out there and it is with AMD processors.
This has been popping all over the place on Windows forums and tech news sites, leaving AMD users in rage due fTPM causing Windows 11 to stutter:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/sccict/amd_ftpm_causes_random_stuttering_issue/
CapEnt,
Huh, I wasn’t aware of that problem. I wonder what’s going on there.
In our case with TLS1.3, we’ve found it’s not just us, all software we’ve tried on windows 11 that relies on schannel is broken due to microsoft’s issues. The kicker is our customers are demanding a fix since since their services are upgraded to TLS1.3, which isn’t unreasonable. But since our product uses microsoft crypto services, we’re in a tough spot.
So in conclusion this Windows 11 update was a damp squib?
It interesting watching the lead-up to Win 11 going mainstream, it is very reminiscent of Win 10, and I’d say a world of difference better than the mistakes of Win 8. I think as it evolves, just like Win 8 did moving to Win 8.1, and Win 10 through is regular updates, the Win 11 product will benefit greatly from community testing feedback. It gets a new product to market with the main critical issues addressed better and faster than any alternative model.
As for the hijacked part of this debate.
It’s truly ironic for supporters of Linux to be criticising public contribution to software development and testing, doing so from a platform that is effectively eternally in beta.
Linux is barely usable for the bulk of PC users, it’s so far from point and click it is not even worth debating. Anyone who has to support a broad spectrum of users knows this.
Feedback from Linux turtles is worthless, you may as well ask a vegan for an opinion on beef or pork sausages. they are entitled an opinion, but it is relatively worthless.
I’d think the difference in the two is one platform is free and the other is a premium product businesses and individuals pay for. We have to support users who need to be productive and being part of a community testing group was not what we paid for. If we wanted to be part of a community effort we would use eternally in beta open source tools and save 100’s of thousands of dollars in licensing. That would at least pay for the labor in fixing all the crap that breaks.
Using Android apps and fancy graphical elements brings zero value to our business efforts. We use Windows as it supports our hideously expensive engineering line of business apps. Microsoft should concentrate on fixing their current bugs with their own resources and less on selling us the greatness of using us as their test beds. Win 11 has been a big dud so far and we have recently spent a huge amount of money on a fleet of high end Xeon Lenovo workstation laptops with discrete graphics cards that will not even be able to use it.
I don’t define myself by what system I am currently using. I have skills and portable skills. I have used half a dozen OS over a lifetime long enough to be the mum of most “tech bro’s”. Linux Mint gets the job done I need to get done. Windows is a bloated, privacy invading, user unfriendly monopoly. I do not need whatever added value Microsoft claim it to have therefore I no longer use it.
I used to be a software developer to and have posted my opinion on testing among other things. I have the same opinion whether I’m using Windows, Linux, or VMS etcetera. (Yes, I have used VMS for rent-a-gobs who know nothing about me.)
If I was on the Linux Mint development team (which I’m not) there’s plenty I would have to say but I’m guessing almost all the team would know most of it anyway. The critical factor is always time and resources. Otherwise Linux Mint and Zorin and maybe 2-3 others (basically a handful in total) are at the point where a business class user can use them without any bother.
If you had a shred of a clue about logic or philosophy you would know that knowledge and skill and self are different things. If a food scientist was a vegan it wouldn’t make them less of a food scientist. This issue really is ignorance and bias, and I don’t place any weight at all of “tech bro” internet rhetoric or debate. In fact I think I’m the only person on this blog to have posted links to peer reviewed academic papers.
You claim Linux is “barely usable for the bulk of PC users”. I strongly suspect you are confusing your personal world view or personal use cases with reality. Citation please.
HollyB,
You’re having a laugh. You talk a big game but once at the plate you’re the last person to back up anything. You frequently bluff but then you get pissed off when people call you out for it.
No. I just have no tolerance for jerks playing office politics.
HollyB,
You’ve openly demonstrated the falsity of that statement. You’ve got plenty of time for politics and you intentionally troll everyone with your misandry disrupting every topic. You use simple disagreements to justify your hatred, but it is not rational nor healthy. It’s eye opening how one person can singlehandedly create so much vile sexism. Were you like this at your job? If so I really feel sorry for those who’ve had to work through so much toxicity. The amount of hatred you keep festering inside you must make your life miserable too, but rather than recognizing the problem you lash out at others blaming them, which doesn’t fix the problem and honestly it never will. Maybe you are thinking if others are made to feel your pain, it would make you happy but it won’t. There’s still a chance for you to be happy and develop meaningful friendships, but you have to let go of the toxicity.
@Alfman, happiness does not appear to be the objective of some posters.
The objective seems to be to create and harvest restlessness, something French Philosophers were also very good at identifying and diagnosing. Some people really do just want to watch the world burn!
Readers could be forgiven for confusing some posters on here with Duane Gish!
Derrida’s reality exists, it created both Trump and Woke, siblings who refuse to accept the existence of the other. Traditional philosophers hated Derrida, because Derrida rightly highlighted out there is no one truth which is antithetical to many philosophers, and so in Derrida’s reality no one self can ever be ultimately correct or all encompassing.
Language exposes reality, I,I,I, Me, Me, Me, it’s a tell and not a trick of language.
A rote knowledge of philosophy does not confirm an understanding.
None of what I’ve written has politics or spin, it’s neither a distraction or a diversion, it’s not a trick of language.
As for the gross generalisations, the assumptions of what is business class, what is knowledge and who I am, they are generalisations expose a truth. And none of those ancillary arguments build a valid case for the Linux, they are just a smokescreen.
As for myself, I think there is some true irony in the choice of Linux Mint as an example.
You’re quoting a French philosopher? Do you know anything about the French school of philosophy? French philosophers specialise in creating controversial points of view with nothing meaningful to say simply to provoke debate. I have no time at all for it.
@HollyB, there seems to be many things you have no time for but will comment on at length. Windows, men, other commentators, French philosophy. It is quite similar to controversy intended to provoke debate, so maybe give the French a pass on that one.
Also, you’ve been on the site a year. Its a bit soon to claiming to be the only commentator who has quoted an academic paper.
On another note, like you I am also on Mint.
On that front — Mint and other user-focused Debian systems — I have no idea why people further up this thread think its such a dreadful unusable system when so many professionals use it because it gives them an edge Windows doesn’t. Its fine! It works well. Please stop shouting at clouds. Linus’s videos were amusing but do not reflect the experience the rest of us have had.
I prefer OSNews when we aren’t all striking poses with claims that Linux or Windows is fundamentally inadequate compared with the other when both are clearly entirely usable and interesting in their own way and Jesus can we just be less juvenile?
@M.Only Not all of us a bashing Linux, Windows or MacOS, that assertion is a gross generalisation made by some posters.
Most of us are just commenting without bias for either or any OS, we aren’t unapologetic fans of any OS. I my own case I assert variety is the spice of life, pushing any one solution is surely and certainly wrong!
In the case of Linux Mint, it’s the distro that is most Windows like, it’s the fundamental design philosophy to present a familiar and usable GUI for conversion of Windows users to Linux. So much so I use it as part of the suite of OS operating in the networks I manage, if a Windows or MacOS user needs a Linux, then Linux Mint is my go to, either in VM or Bare Metal!
But to assert Linux Mint is as point and click end user friendly or better than Windows or MacOS for business class users is an extreme stretch of reality. In my own small onsite networks (typically < 50 users) some of which include many technicians and hardware designers who need a Linux due to specific utilities or services, users who are well above average "business class user", they need continual support to keep Linux Mint working, patched, secure and up to date. It's absurdity to assert otherwise.
@cpcf
“I assert variety is the spice of life”
Indeed it is!
That’s possibly the most insightful comment on this forum in a long time and I’ve been reading since at least ’99. 🙂
I run Windows rarely and only for contract work, but I do find Windows 11’s ability to run Android apps intriguing.
Linux has Anbox, which offers relatively good compatibility, but it will only install on Snap enabled systems, which is a deal breaker for me.