Many argue that browser engine diversity is the backbone of the open Web – assuring not only interoperability and user choice but also a bulwark protecting the Web from centralization.
So my ears perked up when I recently heard from a well-placed contact that “many in the Chromium community are arguing for a Chromium-only Web.” While the Chrome team (and friends) have long railed against what they perceive as other browsers’ plodding implementation of cutting-edge extensions to the Web, it’s a pretty big leap to advocate for a Web with only one browser engine.
I feel like we’re effectively already there. Everything is made to work in Chrome, and if you don’t use Chrome, you just have to hope the sites you need remain working. Chrome has long ago amassed critical mass for total dominance – those last few percentage points make no material difference.
I wish Blink hadn’t dropped support for third-party OS’s. I use Wayfarer on MorphOS and it works well on most websites I access but it is based on WebKit for obvious reasons. Even then it took a lot of patches for big-endian PPC.
And we can assume with confidence that Google will not be as stupid as MS and cause a state of affairs comparable to what happened to IE6 dominance.
Still a Firefox holdout here, but in recent months I’ve been noticing the need to fire up Vivaldi to get some site run properly. And that’s becoming increasingly frequent. 🙁
I am a big Firefox fan too, only second to Safari on iOS/Mac.
I avoid using Chromium as much as possible, but most of my kids’ schoolwork is mired in the Google pantheon of services.
I think the fear is to end up with dominance again, making web less open and less free. The mess of needing Internet Explorer on a smaller platform back in the day was a nightmare.
That is indeed a very big and real concern. There are already numerous websites that have trouble in Firefox, my preferred browser. I started using GNU/Linux back in the early 2000s, when MS was attempting to destroy the open web with IE 6, and do not want to get back to those days. Honestly, I don’t understand all the hate Mozilla and Firefox have gotten in recent years. It all seems to boil down to “Mozilla is becoming to corporate, so we’re going to switch the Google browser, one of the world’s largest corporate behemoths.” Strange…
But this isn’t even the main problem, the problem is that, for whatever reason, web devs have overwhelmingly started using JavaScript for simple and static content. I started noticing this trend some years ago because I use NetSurf on a really old computer that I liked keeping around. It’s the only browser I know available in almost all platforms (I guess they no longer have a macOS port, but it wouldn’t be difficult to make it happen).
teco.sb,
I don’t “hate” them and still use firefox. It’s the last stand against google’s monopoly and I still try to support them. But I do think mozilla made unforced management mistakes that harmed their marketshare. Their demographic was always more open and FOSS/tech savvy than the public at large, and IMHO they should have continued to lead the industry at representing us and our needs first. However the truth is that mozilla hasn’t always had our backs and they would fight with us unnecessarily, made extensions less accessible to developers and insisted on restrictive changes that nobody was asking for. The criticism was immediate but they were suborn and doubled down on unpopular changes. Consequently they bled tons of long term users and did not gain enough to replace those who were leaving.
I am very saddened by the mono-culture, but in hindsight I think mozilla would have needed better advice & leadership to stay relevant. 🙁
I wouldn’t say Javascript itself is a high barrier to portability though. At least not since the years of IE. Usually the bigger issue is browser specific features, implementation differences and different security models.
I for one don’t like the http postback model that much because the entire application state has to be sent to the server and regenerated for every postback. It depends on the application, but it’s a clunky mechanic for application building. IMHO client side applications with ajax calls to fetch content can provide a superior UI experience that can match the interactivity of a local application.
Yeah, UI redesigns for the sake of redesigning, often broke the setups most power users worked on hours to build. Changing the extension engine didn’t also do good for loyal users.
On the other hand, some projects which can help Mozilla’s revenue stream, like the VPN, aren’t getting enough support and push within the organization. The last time I checked, the VPN service was available in only a few countries. So as my existing VPN subscription was expiring, I had to use my old VPN to fake that I’m in Singapore just to buy Mozilla’s more expensive offer, only to realize that they didn’t bother to support win7. (Fortunately, a refund wasn’t too hard to get.) Do they have the luxury to turn down users who are willing to pay 50 bucks a year?
Also Firefox has this unique feature called the “multi-account containers”. They could push for it, and advertise for it, attracting many privacy-concerned users. But they just don’t do that. The feature is still a mess to use, and doesn’t get an easier-to-use interface anyway.
I’m afraid, the organizational prudishness at Mozilla will lead to the death of the relatively free browser scene we had for the last 15 years.
On an unrelated note, how about implementing markdown in comment boxes? Even google docs has it now.
Yeah, I’ve been noticing problem with sites while using Firefox as well. I’ve been trying really hard not to switch to some Chromium-based browser, but it’s getting more and more difficult.
Nope. That’s it, one word! Nope!
I use Safari. My fallback is Firefox. And a few other derivatives if needed.
Chrome etc isn’t even in my mind.
lostinlodos,
Mozilla already faced multiple rounds of difficult layoffs due to loosing market share and that trend has only continued so it may be in the process of circling the drain.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/firefox-maker-mozilla-lays-off-250-workers-says-covid-19-lowered-revenue/
I don’t say it lightly and I’d love to see more people using FF, but I’d be lying if I said that a mozilla collapse weren’t in the back of my mind. The firefox derivatives are decent enough, but I don’t think such forks are a safe hedge against a theoretical FF collapse either because they are just tiny teams applying patches to mozilla’s code. Their browser work would likely stall if the upstream FF releases stop coming.
I used to test in safari while they had a windows version, but not since they discontinued it. I don’t think it’s an option for most of us.
IMHO mozilla’s biggest problem isn’t that they aren’t able to deliver a good browser, but that 1) they have no resources to compete against the mighty google and 2) they are blocked by apple’s exclusionary walled garden on IOS. Apple’s walled garden restrictions might finally be cracking under EU antitrust regulators, but it could be many years too late – an ironic fate considering what happened to netscape.
“Mozilla previously had about 1,000 employees.”
Talk about bloated. Netscape too had a whopping 2,500 employees in 2002 according to Wikipedia.
It’s time for Mozilla or somebody else to again start gaining market share. In compared to Google. And obviously i am not talking about Microsoft or Apple. Ideally Mozilla but if they don’t want to then somebody like Mozilla was in the “browser wars” era.
Geck,
The question that needs answering is “how?”.
First step should likely be to start mandating web browser choice screen on Android and Chrome OS devices. Separating web browser in separate company could work too. That is for Safari, Chrome, Edge … to compete on the same terms as Firefox, Opera, Vivaldi … There are a lot of choices bu somebody needs to act on it. Unless they are all happy with it. I guess. Being paid to have 0% market share and to be OK with such arrangement.
Geck,
Oh, so you’re talking about government regulation then.
Well as far as that goes I think governments should have cracked down on walled gardens and similar barriers that block owners from downloading and installing alternatives many years ago. However beyond that I think fighting market consolidation has been a political hot potato. Also, it’s just hard to compete with corporations that are able to provide “free” products indefinitely because they have a cash cow and you don’t.
Actually after thinking about this some more no. This would be the second step. The first step needs to come from elsewhere. That is from Mozilla or some other player on the market. Someone condemning current situation and saying out loud Google is abusing it’s market position. And explaining how and on how to fix it. Without that no regulator will take action.
Back in the days of IE dominance, it was the same story. And back then, I went to the trouble to tell everyone to use and even help them set up the Mozilla Suite (this was before Firefox was a thing), with the reasoning that it has a bunch of unique, useful features (it was the first browser to have tabs, and bookmarks management was light years ahead at the time). Within a few years, Firefox had taken over 2/3 of market share – and this is the clinker – without any kind of marketing campaign or default install shenanigans. It was all word of mouth.
So the answer to your question “how” is quite simple. Tell all your friends and family to use Firefox. Explain that it’s got better privacy protection, for instance by preventing Facebook from logging you in on any sites outside of Facebook itself, and by blocking cross-site tracking cookies and fingerprinters. Really if you, as the local “tech authority” tell people that Firefox respects privacy while Chrome is more interested in giving Google more big data, they will listen, you probably don’t even need to tell them the individual details.
On top of that, if they seem like the kind of people who might care, explain that the freedom of the web is at stake, and that Firefox is the last insurance against a single-browser-engine monopoly.
Back in the day, Firefox came to the fore based solely on word of mouth from people like us. For Chrome it was, at least initially, a similar story (although Google’s advertising on its homepage surely finished the job). I see no reason why Firefox can’t experience another comeback – if not to become a majority, then at least a strong minority force once more.
Moochman,
I hope you don’t mind, but I couldn’t help but laugh at that 🙂
On a serious note though I have been extremely vocal about mono-cultures and the perils of mass consolidation, but can feel futile when for every one of us there are hundreds or thousands who don’t care. Companies can reliably bank on it.
Online I can search for like minded people who care about things I care about, but in the real world they are very few and far in between. It makes socializing kind of difficult. I’m curious, is it the same for other people here too?
I remember chrome installers being bundled with other software and hardware too.
I found this old article on osnews, it’s interesting to read the comments at the time!
https://www.osnews.com/story/22099/google-chrome-comes-bundled-on-sony-laptops/
Maybe, but I think the forces of market consolidation are extremely difficult to reverse especially given the asymmetry of resources that may be permanent.
It’s true that many/most people don’t care much about the nitty-gritty details of tech-related stuff, and basically I just tend to avoid such topics or gloss over/simplify them to the point of near meaninglessness for the sake of avoiding glassy-eyed stares. But I think just about everyone these days has some basic awareness of the dangers of unwanted personal data collection, even if it only manifests in their everyday life as creepy targeted ads. Additionally, I think people in general have learned to be a bit more wary of Google due to its monopoly position and data collection tendencies. Sure, you might still only reach 1 in 10 people, but even that is an achievement.
To be honest, I talk up Firefox more online than I do in the real world, because usually IRL the topic of browser choice just doesn’t come up. But on the other hand, the topic of online privacy comes up a surprising amount (even if it’s only in reference to said creepy targeted ads), and everyone uses a browser at the end of the day – so I may start trying to ramp up my Firefox pitching IRL, too. 🙂
Also just found this article on Firefox’s Total Cookie Protection, which provides some talking points:
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-rolls-out-total-cookie-protection-by-default-to-all-users-worldwide/
Just remember, this isn’t about Chromium being the ONLY one that cares about standards, it’s about catering only to Chromium’s interpretation and implementation of any standard.
The MSIE of our day.