Ahead of these layoffs, Fuchsia appeared to be on an upward trajectory within Google. After years of being a skunkworks project, the company’s from-scratch operating system has grown to be used in the Nest Hub series and is poised to be used in an upcoming device. There are even indications of Google ramping up Fuchsia development internally in recent months.
Considering Google’s overall workforce is set to be reduced by around 6%, the Fuchsia team appears to have been targeted more directly by the layoffs than other divisions. It’s not yet clear what this may mean for the project going forward.
It doesn’t seem like a good idea to heavily cut the workforce of a team building a brand new operating system from scratch that you’ve only just started putting in consumers’ hands, but what do I know?
I’m reminded of when Microsoft thought they’d defeated Netscape and disbanded the IE6 team. I suspect this is either similar arrogance at work here or a sign that once again a project is being canceled soon…
Microsoft did defeat Netscape. That company was crushed. Most notably, IIS completely replaced their webserver which was meant to be the cash flywheel of the company. Netscape the company disappeared even as a division of AOL by 2003 and Netscape the browser was dead by 2008 ( though I guess iPlanet technically limped along until 2010 ).
It was too late to help Netscape but making their code Open Source did lead to Firebird ( later Firefox ) which did indeed come to dominate the market and push Internet Explorer to low market share but Netscape had ceased to exist before the first version of Firefox was even released. Google then entered the market with Chrome and did the same to Firefox. At this point, Chrome has 80% market share and the Chrome engine has 90% since Microsoft does not even make their own anymore. Firefox is still kicking but continuing to wane with less than 10% and the only reason Safari exists is iOS ( and MacOS to a lesser extent ).
Yes, yes, I remember it well–I lived through those days. I remember when almost all the “alternatives” to IE were simply shells around Trident. When the only real competition was Opera because Mozilla Suite wasn’t really ready yet. Even so, it did exist and was an option before Firefox.
My point is more on the way Microsoft handled their win. They disbanded the IE6 team and sent them to handle other issues within the organization and let IE6 bitrot. This complete lack of forwardthinking allowed Mozilla the time they needed to come up from behind IE and destroy its hold. By Microsoft not continuing to run with the ball they allowed someone else to take it and run with it.
I suspect that Google could find themselves in a similar situation if they aren’t being careful. I don’t know if it’ll be changes in Linux, one of the various Linux phones surging forward, or even one of the various alternative OSes we follow here, like SerenityOS or Haiku or even some complete unknown, like Android itself was when RIM owned the mobile phone space despite competition by Windows Mobbile and Palm. But if this is a case of Google deciding to rest on their laurels someone can and probably will come up from behind them and maybe overtake them.
Alternatively, it wouldn’t be the first time Google shuttered a project just as it started to gain traction. So there’s that to think about too.
Interesting.
Fuchsia was one of the projects I was looking for an internal transfer.
Btw, I was also affected by this. However, one of the lucky ones (no visa issues, or something else).
sukru,
I’d still like to see some competition for android, especially if this competition could improve on android’s driver situation. But I have no idea whether anybody at google cares about such pet peeves in the FOSS community. Even if some employees do, it’s hard to know what the executives are really planning.
For comparison, look at google stadia, which was decommissioned a short while ago. Even internally, Google was congratulating staff and giving the impression all was well just a few days before the decision to cancel it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IssNq2TBzfA
Were you part of the layoffs, or am I misunderstanding?
Alfman,
Unfortunately, yes,
One evening I was thinking “I am working on a great project in Search, and it will have real impact”. Next morning I received an email, telling what I did was not actually interesting to Google.
This was a major change. Previously, they would either send people for performance, but that came with a PIP, which is essentially a heads up. Or, they would have shut down projects and give people time for internal transfers. Both of which are usually unsuccessful, but you get to say your goodbyes.
Anyway, the last few years has shown major changes in tech company cultures, and I am not sure we can bring back the “good old days”.
Sorry to hear that. The ups and downs of the industry are making everyone long for the good old days. But I’m sure, with your skills and experience, you will find something else in no time.
cevvalkoala,
Thanks. Already on looking for my next adventure, and dusting of my skills from leetcode.
Still does not make it okay the way this happened though.
Sorry mate.
I had some friends over at google who also got canned. It was a bloodbath, and how they went about it was horrendous.
Google operates a bit like a cult, and now they’ve entered the creep epoch.
Can you elaborate on that?
Marshal Jim Raynor,
(Another StarCraft fan, nice!)
I’m not sure how I can describe this, but Google was “different”. The management usually listened to feedback, and the company would take actions that are more or less within reason, and long term looking.
Take “free meals” for example. Yes, the cafeterias offer much better food than many local restaurants. But that is a “win win” situation, because the half hour you’d otherwise spend driving to the downtown and back is now saved. Everyone wins.
There were many other instances like that one.
sukru,
I’m always fascinated by these perks. The majority of work environments I’ve seen are dark & depressing cubical offices with no freebees or employee services. I don’t know if this speaks more to the times, company, or location, but the type of working environment portrayed for tech workers on TV seems so foreign to me. When I was a kid growing up I would hear of the insane level of demand for tech workers and it was exciting because it’s the field I wanted to go into. By the time I graduated university though we were in the second tech bubble fallout and it was an employers market and my dream jobs all fell through. I got into web development because the work was there. Alas it wasn’t work I’d enjoy and to make matters worse over time much of this work would dry up as amazon’s monopoly would suck customers away from companies doing their own ecommerce. This isn’t to say I haven’t had some fun projects here and there, but then the contracts were up and it was back to the mundane.
I’d advice against small local businesses as a career choice. It’s just as stressful, more responsibilities fall on your shoulders personally, less pay, less job security. This can be offset by having more autonomy and fewer people telling you what to do, but I think every one of my friends from university working for small companies has been effected by job loss due to closures. It’s not newsworthy when it happens on a small scale, but the sort of layoffs you are experiencing are common and normal with small companies.
On the upside, having google on your resume will automatically put you in the top 1-2% of candidates. I remember one company having a stack of candidates and their somewhat arbitrary decider was a candidate with IBM attached to their resume. The fact that you worked for google alone will probably be enough to get your foot in the door with most employers. My guess is that your biggest competitor won’t be the ordinary masses, but rather other silicon valley alum being laid off.
Alfman,
For a very long time Google tried to do that “small company mindset in giga company setting”. I would say they were mostly successful, but things deteriorated. This of course correlated with management change, but…
We had weekly “TGIF” meetings where senior management were subject to real hard questioning. Many times, I would think “wow! they will fire this guy with the questions!”, but he would come on next week, and ask even harsher questions. A few years ago, that ended:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/15/20966718/google-weekly-all-hands-tgif-staff-meeting-changes-ceo-sundar-pichai
Why? Because people decided to leak first parts, then the entire meetings. This was an unspoken rule.
I can go on to list 100 other things. But TGIF itself is / was the most important feedback mechanism. Today, that, and 100 other things, are no more.
I think it really was impossible to have everyone on board with the same mindset after you reach more than 100,000 employees.
Thanks! Yes, this is also part of my consideration. Having a nice severance package means I will have time to think what to do.
I will probably first look into positions where I could maybe, just maybe, have open source contributions. (But then family needs might force a more practical path).
sukru,
I’d be curious to know what you find in terms of open source contributions. I’m sure there are thousands of projects that would love to have you. I’m not so sure they have money, but if something seems interesting and challenging, then maybe it could fun and rewarding even as a hobby.
To brutally honest about my situation though, raising a family has been hard financially. I didn’t realize my daughter was already thinking about it, but apparently she was talking with friends and said she wouldn’t have enough money to go to college. That hit me like a rock. Of course I want my kids to be happy and it makes me feel heartbroken if they loose opportunities because I can’t provide more. When it’s just you, it’s easy to justify giving up money for a job that’s more pleasant, but as soon as family responsibilities get involved, this calculus takes a sudden turn and there’s more urgency to choose the path of more money for the sake of others you care about.
I feel guilty for justifying a position of greed, but I don’t feel it’s entirely fair to compare this to the greed of multimillionaires and billionaires who have everything and always want more.
Alfman,
This is also new for me. There seems to be a lot of startups and large companies that have open source products. Including very big ones, like Microsoft. But I first need to do some research.
Previously, I though “I can go to an open source friendly company”. However that means you need to work double, first your day job, and then an approved community project. And in practice triple jobs, including being a parent. (And apparently, it has not worked for me in my last job).
Anyway, as you said, kids have higher priority. If push comes to shove, ideals will take backseat.
It seems like this is kind of a second system issue. Fuchsia seemed really cool, but google already owns mobile os space, minus apple. it would be better if they owned the copyright as well allowing them more control over the usecases and prevent the kindlization of android. But the real threat seems to be Microsoft and Open Ai.
Bill Shooter of Bul,
The problem with Android is Linux kernel and hardware companies are passing the blame for driver compatibility.
Both have their concerns. Linus does not want to maintain a backward compatible driver ABI, just to appease some closed source manufacturers. And chipset manufacturers does not want to spend anything more than bare minimum to release products to the market. (Closed source drivers run with only a specific Linux kernel image, and nothing more).
Android was left in between trying to mediate the disputes. It did not work.
Fuchsia was supposed to fix that. It also came with a better security model, and a clean Rust based implementation.
But as you suggest, a “good enough” existing system can usually win over a flashy new one.
That`s sad. I guess that such big company can keep their workers safe from being lay-off.
Fuchsia is going to quietly disappear, like most google products
lmao @ any one who actually thought google could commit to a product for once
I really hope so. I run my Android phone without Google atm and I can do that because of AOSP. When Google finishes moving all relevant tech from Android to the Play Store they could just quietly move everyone to Fuchsia, which would mean every app make would have to follow them and AOSP would be dead.
I don’t think “at least 16%” being let go means it’s outright cancelled yet. Plus this is mostly investors demanding layoffs. The last bit of news I can find about Fuchsia before this was that Google was getting Javascript support in it ready, likely for testing 2 new smart speakers at the factory. With Alexa axed, I have a guess as to why a lot of the Fuchsia team suddenly got cut.
Google doesn’t commit to anything. Of all the software vendors they are the last one I would want to get stuck using in my job or get excited about on a personal level. One week it can look promising and the next week google is shutting it down. Not to mention their support is terrible.
kepta,
*This*
It boggles my mind how a company with such notoriously terrible support can lead any industry. The level of support I’ve had from other companies has often been hit and miss, but google gets a big fat “F”. Based on the merits of support they provide, I feel google would have deserved to go extinct long ago. But clearly google has proven me and other naysayers completely wrong; having good support isn’t as important as we thought.
Google has the habit of having a few “main” cash-cows/strategic assets they never intending of letting go and a bunch of “other bets” they will shut down on a moment’s notice if they lose interest (which creates a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy for those projects, see Stadia for a good example).
For example, I wouldn’t worry about on-going support for products such as Google Ads, Chrome, Maps, YouTube, or Android. I would for something like Stadia, WearOS, or even Android TV.
kurkosdr,
I’ve had bad support even in markets where I’d expect google would/should care about including google ads and google classroom. Frankly I think the best way to get support from google is to make a stink on social media. Obviously this is more workable for media stars then average joes though.
On re-reading your post, I think I may have misunderstood your point. You probably mean “support” as in continuing to support the product and not so much as in tech support, which is what I meant.
Just write and upstream GNU/Linux device drivers for your hardware and we are good. As eventually you are going to do it. No other known solution can match that. It solves all the problems Google created. By not doing it in the first place.
Geck,
This is your go to excuse for why we have proprietary drivers every time this comes up. Google hardware is a small fraction of the overall market, they’re just not responsible for the vast majority of our proprietary drivers. I’m not a fan of google but it’s clear as day that you are philosophically bent on blaming them without regards to the fact that google doesn’t write the drivers for most of our devices. Until you recognize the real forces in effect, you will not be successful in addressing the root of the problem. This is sad because I agree with the FOSS cause, but I’m afraid that you are are not helping it with rhetoric that reflects more hatred than logic.
Stop with the lame excuses and just do it. Don’t worry about the rest. The rest can still continue to use GNU/Linux with proprietary drivers just fine. Or follow the suit. Whatever works better for them. If this 400 people would be working on achieving such goal. It would be done already. Or if Google would give the amount of money this project cost to partners. They would do it instead. Now they are half a decade behind the schedule. You can’t stop the progress. Not even Google can do that. Do it or somebody else will do it instead. And after you will be obsolete. And then there is the pressure from Apple. If they want to keep up with Apple they need upstream GNU/Linux device drivers. And they need it now. Or the gap will just grow.
Geck
Right back at you. Honestly if google went away today, FOSS users would still be stuck with a swamp of proprietary devices without google. So Geck I think it’s very fair to ask you to dig deeper and recognize that it’s really an industry-wide problem.
Some people have been saying that for years and decades though and unfortunately saying it doesn’t make it true.
Sometimes indeed you should listen to what other people are telling you. As Google eventually will.