“Turbolinux, one of the four main Linux commercializers, closed down on Monday, multiple sources say. The company could not be reached for comment late last night when reports started filtering in. It was after normal business hours anywhere in the US. If true, the unconfirmed disaster will be a black eye for the newfangled United Linux initiative that Turbo, Caldera, SuSE and Conectiva, all second stringers, put together a few weeks ago to prop each other up and create a common operating system platform to take up against Linux market leader Red Hat.” Read the (unconfirmed yet) report at LinuxGram.
Reports Circulate that TurboLinux has Collapsed
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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If you know you’re going out of business in a matter of weeks?
Oh well, the Penguins will march on!
ciao
yc
You get the others to support you.
As I understand it, the major players in UnitedLinux are SuSE and Caldera. I really don’t see what TurboLinux really had to offer the party.
Strength in numbers. Thats about it.
yet another space-consuming meaningless post by yc
If these combined merged and combined the best of their talent, they’d form an alternative to Red Hat. Trying to form some loose allegiance to a vapor-spec is not going to impress customers or the market.
TurboLinux has done some good work in the past. I hope their engineers get picked up by the other Linux companies.
#m
yet another space-consuming meaningless post by yc
I’m inclined to agree with you, but I can’t say your post was any more meaningfull. Actually, i’d say it was less.
or mine.
Looks like RedHat is the big bad beast in the Linux world. Linux against Linux. What I don’t understand is, why don’t they try to implement something useful say, an alternative to the X Windows System. We all know that XFree86 sucks big time on the desktop and seems like, big companies such as RedHat, Caldera, SuSe etc don’t care about it at all. Implement something useful which will benefit desktop users and stop trying to destroy yourself. Even, Lycoris, Elx and Mandrake Linux designated as desktop Linux distributions don’t even try to bring an alternative to the X Windows System. Instead, they all try to destroy each other, UnitedLinux against RedHat, Lycoris against Elx etc. Perhaps, Microsoft IS right, Linux INDEED has no future and is going down just like Corel Linux and Turbo Linux did. For once, try to implement an alternative to the X Window System because with Xfree86 Linux will end up nowhere on the desktop. My opinion of course
Ok Ok…
Lets see some history:
All big player(read: mkt players) collapsed:
1) corel linux
2) storm linux
3) stampede linux
4) progeny linux
5) happy linux
6) blue linux
IMHO they TRIED with no efforts to make Linux=Windows, easy to use, automatic instalation process, fater setup, etc.. etc.. etc…
Why?
cause all they tried to focus ONLY in marketing, is just that!
They cant see Linux with a great product, open-source one!
THAT really matters, no bullshit, no extra-GUIS, no 2 clicks and install(Corel).
We all know linux is DIFERENT from Windows, and u cant make a “easy-to-use-distro” because it simply doesnt work.
Linux will be “easy to use” when people get rid of Windows and pay attention of one detail:
U cna do much more with Linux than Windows, and eneven more simply!
We dont want just a “easy-distro”., We want a distro tha FACILITATE the install process, and bring to u something that really works!
Not only bulshit!
And of course, If players like Caldera, RedHat, and Conectiva are thinking they can dominate the market-share with these ridiculous techs(United) they are wrong!
They all will fail!
Trust me!
I ma not a “guru” or somegui like that, but i can see, that all these players fail allways at the same point:
“They dont think about Open-Source!”
Trust me guis!
Next will be Suse…
ah, here u can see the importance of an open-source distro:
http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-03/debian_01.html
!
I’m inclined to agree with you, but I can’t say your post was any more meaningfull. Actually, i’d say it was less.
well, we all have done some space-wasting posts, including yours, but at least we don’t do it on a regular basis like yc
“4) progeny linux”
Progeny hasn’t collapsed, they are still alive and kicking. The distribution was never their main goal and they decided to stop maintaining a seperate branch from Debian. They are still working on the tools though like the Progeny Installer or Discover.
“They dont think about Open-Source!”
Storm Linux and Progeny both were/are 100% free software companies. I don’t know about Stampede, I didn’t even know they were commercial. I don’t know happy and blue Linux, so their marketing couldn’t be all that great.
the distro venders will never create a new alternative to X. Why? If they want to make money from it, because it would be better than everyone else’s, they really can’t open-source it. If they don’t open-source it, all the linux followers would shun them. Also, they would need Drivers! Open-GL support (cost for the license), maybe use MESA. And, if they would open-source it, everyone else would have it, so they would no longer be “special”. It’s a double-edged sword.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for open-source, and work on a couple projects. But, I do it because I want to, not to make money.
They’re are alternatives to X, though I haven’t looked in on them lately. One coming up, is Cosmoe!
Linux will be “easy to use” when people get rid of Windows and pay attention of one detail:
U cna do much more with Linux than Windows, and eneven more simply!
To quote Dr. McCoy: “Hey you! What planet is this?”
Do more and more simply? Maybe for the things YOU do, but it can’t do some of the things i need AT ALL, much less more easily.
* Such as creating Flash movies?
* Good vector illustrations? Got anything like CorelDraw?
* Designing and managing web sites (anything like DreamWeaver, HomeSite, or even 1stPage 2000)? Emacs doesn’t count.
* Adding fonts? You mean Linux can beat “drag-n-drop”?
* Working with readily available and inexpensive peripherals?
*Apps that actually have decent documentation? I’m getting tired of “Somebody needs to write this” entries in help files.
Sorry, Linux isn’t there yet. Maybe someday, but not now.
Why do people continue to focus on Linux as a possible desktop solution? It may work well for you and I as a workstation OS, but its original purpose wasn’t to give regular folks the ability to write letters or check their email.
The Desktop market is saturated and is dead for most intents and purposes. The technical success of Linux and the other free UNIX variants makes most OS functionality a commodity. If one wants to build a business around Linux and other open source software, then look at adding value and providing computing solutions to the consumer and/or business where the underlying OS is of little importance to the client. This could range from providing turnkey database/document Mgt./messaging solutions for small businesses, or increasing the pervasiveness of computing in our day to day lives while minimizing its intrusiveness (e.g. smart homes). Linux can have tremendous success in these server and embedded areas. Let the desktop companies die.
And let’s not measure the potential success of companies that base their business models on Linux by the few companies that went public with business models that would have probably failed regardless of the OS they were selling. Most of these companies only received VC funding and had successfull IPOs because of the gold rush fever of the DOTCOM era. It had nothing to do with the feasibility of their business models. Let them die!
yet another space-consuming meaningless post by yc
yet another space-consuming meaningless post by anonymous.
1) corel linux
They had fatal flaws in their business model. Plus, while being praised by the Windows crowd, the pragmatic Windows/Mac using crowd didn’t really jump up for joy. A review for example told how hard it was just to get his new graphics card to work with Corel Linux after installing (he installed it after 2 days of using Corel).
3) stampede linux
This isn’t a commercial entity. They were tired of Red Hat and Debian, and wanted something new. Many others didn’t.
4) progeny linux
Progeny is one of the main supporters of Debian, certainly not bankrupted. They had been deploying Debian in companies servers and so on.
We all know linux is DIFERENT from Windows, and u cant make a “easy-to-use-distro” because it simply doesnt work.
Strangely enough, Mac OS X made a easy to use system out of BSD, Windows managed for quite some time to make an quite easy to use system based on DOS. Both BSD and DOS is just as bad as Linux in ease of use. You can’t just dismiss Linux for the desktop like that, you know.
It’s a good distro with bad marketing. It’s the law of the fittest. Maybe this is not true and just a temporary difficulty.
I care for desktop OS’ because that’s what I’m using.
I couldn’t care less about the desktop(be it linux or anything else, but..
You all linux-on-the-desktop bashers will have a big surprise when RH 8 is
released…
Any way, Linux *is* ready for the desktop *now*, In my company(a non IT related
company, where I’m the only one who knows how to even reboot a computer)
everybody in the office is running linux on their desktops, and it works fine.
Not to count that my tech support work is 10% of what it was, now I only have
to go to the office once a month or so, and most of the time I can fix things
from home with SSH… even my boss it’s happier because people don’t waste time
downloading junk from the internet and getting infected with the latest email
virus and embarrassing all the company by spreading it to our customers…
Not to count how much we have saved in MS licenses(Any of you have really
bought WinXP instead of just getting a warez coppy?) And we don’t need to worry
about the BSA any more!
I have to say that for a private, non technical, person right now I would
recommend a Mac(MacOS X rocks!), but for a company Linux on the desktop works
very well…
Oh well, seems that you all 31137 cool WinXP users know better… I’m going
back to work with my desktop-less FreeBSD box, using Vim, of course!
K
P.S.: More on the Turbolinux “news”, I doubt Turbo in Asia will go away, they
are quite big there, and in USA they where already quite dead, so this isn’t
big news… OTOH the great thing about Linux and open source, is that this is
irrelevant, you where using a distro that is dead?, ok, just call up RH or IBM
or HP and you can continue business as usual… even if all commercial linux
distros go away, I doubt IBM will go away any time soon, and we will always
have Debian, Slak… and the BSDs.
K
You all linux-on-the-desktop bashers will have a big surprise when RH 8 is
released…
I heard this before, just can’t remember when …
Spark, did you read my comment and the article?
I’m not saying that Linux isn’t useful on the desktop for those of us that have the ability to use it as such. My comment was directed at the article that questioned the commercial viability of the open source model, and the other posters that brought up the problems with X, and distros like Corel Linux.
<quote>
Conventional wisdom has suggested for some time that none of the Linux distributions, perhaps not even Red Hat, will survive long-term and of course all of the successive business failures that have happened among the Linux set call into question the commercial viability of the open source model.
</quote>
My point was that the desktop market is saturated, and that basing the commercial viability of Linux on one company that is essentially trying to sell a commodity, or on distributions that are targeting the desktop is short sighted. Linux can and will succeed in other computing domains where the value isn’t experienced at the OS level but at the application level. For example, if I were to provide a document management solution to a small law firm based on open source software (including my own), I would be able to pass the tremendous costs savings onto the client while providing a solid solution. So instead of a small company having to pay a six-figure fee for some software and high-priced IT consultants, they can have achieve the same goals while not adversely affecting their cash flow or income statement. The business viability for Linux is there. Our companies may not be worth billions or even millions, but they are viable.
Regards.
Ok, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant you wouldn’t care about GNU/Linux success on desktops in general.
I agree,there is plenty of oportunity for companies to make money with Linux related businesses and those articles claiming that this wouldn’t be possible just because another company closes it doors bore me to death.
I wonder how many more decades it will take until we can call any Linux company’s survival “long-term”.
Do you people know what you’re talking here ?
TurboLinux was server class distribution – they did special emphasys on High Availability and clusters.
They have release for IBM iSeries servers (former AS/400).
They are not competing with Microsoft for home users.
Please check http://www.turbolinux.com about Enterprise level Linux – when you need to manage applications on hundreds of Linux servers and not to worry about stability and security of underlying OS. In business, people don’t take seriously phrases like “My server run for 3 months without crashing” –
– What ? Does it suppose to crash ? Scrap that Linux of yours out of here !
P.S.
Stampede Linux was not a market player and then one of their developers left and started what is now known as Gentoo Linux. It’s not really dead.
“…its original purpose wasn’t to give regular folks the ability to write letters or check their email.”
Now see, this is the problem with the mind-set Linux advocates have. Even the end user’s desire to simply write letters or even check their email is poo-poo’ed. Fascinating. I guess Linux’s only ‘proper’ role is serving files to other OS’s?
“Both BSD and DOS is just as bad as Linux in ease of use.”
Interesting theory.
“You all linux-on-the-desktop bashers will have a big surprise when RH 8 is
released…”
That’s what they said about Caldera Linux And Corel Linux and Lindows and and and…
Let us know when we’ll be *pleasantly* surprised.
I certainly hope this report isn’t true. TurboLinux Workstation is my favorite distribution. I wonder how many people who have actually tried it didn’t like it? Most likely it wasn’t effectively marketed.
I was very impressed with its completeness, up-to-date packages (for the release date) of version 7, and the thoroughness with which it was designed. For example, I installed Workstation 7 on my DELL Latitude C600 laptop. Absolutely everything worked perfectly with the default “no questions asked” install, including battery monitoring, floppy/CD-ROM hot swapping, sound, graphics, PC card slot, power management, EVERYTHING.
I felt that the creators of this distribution concentrated on quality and achieved it. I felt it showed that a commercial level of “polish” could be achieved with a Linux distribution.
You all linux-on-the-desktop bashers will have a big surprise when RH 8 is released…
Well, you are talking about Limbo are you? Limbo brings now ideas to the table, except the fact they picked GNOME over KDE. Red Hat needs to do much more that slapping on a GUI on its tools and integrating them into GNOME.
Any way, Linux *is* ready for the desktop *now*, In my company(a non IT related company, where I’m the only one who knows how to even reboot a computer) everybody in the office is running linux on their desktops, and it works fine.
Corporate desktops find it easier to adopt Linux because everything is configured for the user. Plus the company would had paid for reeducation of its staff. Cost and security is the main reason why many corps are taking up Linux. But if you are talking about security only, and you couldn’t care less about the money, or you can’t afford to ditch Windows, switching the back end, like what most companies do, to Linux. You could filter out a lot of viruses using anti-virus programs.
Not to count how much we have saved in MS licenses(Any of you have really bought WinXP instead of just getting a warez coppy?) And we don’t need to worry about the BSA any more!
But what happens if you are using an application not available for Linux, and there aren’t altenatives good enough for you on Linux? That is why Windows is still dominate.
I have to say that for a private, non technical, person right now I would recommend a Mac(MacOS X rocks!), but for a company Linux on the desktop works very well…
Well, maybe with the money saved, they could buy those expensive Macs that are overpriced and underpowered….
Now see, this is the problem with the mind-set Linux advocates have. Even the end user’s desire to simply write letters or even check their email is poo-poo’ed. Fascinating. I guess Linux’s only ‘proper’ role is serving files to other OS’s?
And that role of “serving files to other OS’s” is very profitable. It’s a gold mine.
I felt that the creators of this distribution concentrated on quality and achieved it. I felt it showed that a commercial level of “polish” could be achieved with a Linux distribution.
But even if they have the best OS out there (like Be) or the Guiness World Records for most shipments of an model of an computer (Commodore), it doesn’t matter if you have a shabby business plan that give too much room for rivals.
Fabio said: “U cna do much more with Linux than Windows, and eneven more simply!”
Ignoring your typos, I must ask: What *can* you do with Linux, that you *cannot* do (in some way) with Windows?
I think it’s probably the other way around.
Typical Penguinista.
ok,
can u do more that one telnet simultaneos on windows?
i dont think so.
ah, how much desktops u can have?
how faster is your system boot-up?
can u set your own kernel and customize it?
what are the native tools that u know to solve network problems?
are they easy to use?
can u run windows 2000 in a 386?
i really dont think…
do u know exactly where the programs are installed?
can u keep logs and are they realiable?
How much time can u keep windows runinig?
the major clusters in the world are linux based
High cost:
Commercial operating systems, especially server operating systems, like Windows NT Server and Novell IntraNetware, can can cost more than $400 for a single copy and limited number of user licenses. Even the more modest $100 for Windows 95 can be a problem for people in developing countries, as well as students and others. The price for commercial systems almost never includes development tools, which cost even more. Linux, on the other hand, includes free C, C++, FORTRAN, and other development tools.
Dont forget that the majority of web sites run Apache+Linux.
Coincidence?
How much memory does windows handle “properly” ?
Need more?
Office/Audio/Dvd support/Games ?
Linux can do that all, even more reliable and precise than Windows.
Need more?
Clue time.
As many telnet sessions as DOS windows. Its just a process. Who cares anyway, noone uses telnet.
Windows is closed source, we all know this. So it follows that their kernel is closed. So your argument is moot. But you can change kernels though (ACPI, single, MPS, etc.)
All your other arguments are rather stupid.
Free tools is a stupid one too. I can get any free compiler I like for Winblows. GCC, Lisp, FreePascal, etc. Blah blah.
As for games, compare the amount of games on Linux to the amount on Windows. Whats the ratio? Whats that you’re saying? 1:10000000?
I could go on.
BTW I am not a Windows user. I am just not biased.
Ok, do whaterver u want.
//can u do more that one telnet simultaneos on windows?
i dont think so.//
Like Kon said, as many as you want. Sheesh, have you ever even *used* W2K or XP?
//ah, how much desktops u can have?//
With a three minute download/install of Object Desktop, I can have up to 6. But why would I need more than one? Luckily, I’m smart enough to keep track of my apps on one desktop. Most folks are.
//how faster is your system boot-up?//
From power-on to full desktop, about 70 seconds. And that’s with an aging Athlon 1.1 Ghz. If you think that’s slow, then you’re really inflating the perceived importance of your time.
//can u set your own kernel and customize it?//
Again, why would I want to?
//what are the native tools that u know to solve network problems?//
NET /? lists about 20. There are many others in various MMC snap-ins. But I’m sure you knew this.
//are they easy to use?//
Ummm…we *are* discussing Windows, aren’t we? Sheesh.
//can u run windows 2000 in a 386?//
Can you (realistically) run RH 7.2 with full install of GNOME 1.4 and KDE 2.2 on a 386? Thought not. Really lame point.
//High cost://
Obviously, you’ve never taken any business planning courses. The dollar amount you pay for *anything* is really a negligble slice of the total ROI. But this isn’t the Forbes forum, so I’ll stop.
//Dont forget that the majority of web sites run Apache+Linux.//
Check the facts at http://www.netcraft.com …Apache/Linux new installs are declining rapidly, while IIS/W2K is growing.
//How much memory does windows handle “properly” ?//
Er…uh….yah. Ok.
//Office/Audio/Dvd support/Games//
Wow. You have *GOT* to be kidding with that one.
//Linux can do that all, even more reliable and precise than Windows.//
Yes, Linux can, in some way, do all “that.” More reliable and precise? Not for most.
//Need more?//
No, that about wraps it up. Thanks.
Ok, do whaterver u want, i wont argue with u anymore !
Lets face it Linux has two choices it can either unite into one OS or move apart like the Unix wars, I shudder everytime i think of Linux, certainly
not at what linux tries to do, but at how disorganized it all is,
Have any of you penguines ever thought how unfriendly it is for Joe smuck, moving away from his Climate Controlled Fully Automatic Slick looking klunky windows, to a powerful untamed OS with steep learning curve like linux? Now what if you add 50 different (Im really not sure how many) Distrubutions all telling you how much they all suck? If Turbo Linux dies it is a good thing, one less Linux distrobution to cloud judgement.
As far as i can see there are currently 3 types of Linux users, the ones who develope in there own direction, the users who install a distrobution use it for awhile, get ticked and never go back, and then the people who install and uninstall distrobutions so they can bitch about them.
My opinon on Turbo Linux as a OS I tried TurboLinux i have two CD’s of it kicking in my basement, I really thought it sucked anyways.