DesktopLinux.com reviews the Freespire release candidate, and concludes: “In short, I found it to be a fine Windows replacement desktop for home users. Without better network support, however, I still must recommend Xandros for business users who want a Windows-like experience, and SLED 10 for Linux friendly or heavy-duty office users.”
I wonder, why would any free software developer want to participate in the Freespire community. Linspire wants us to help them develop what exactly? An OS that contributes nothing back to the free software community.
When’s the last time that Linspire invested in free software? All of the other commercial Linux vendors with community projects have serious free software cred. It’s easy to name at least one way that each of the big vendors contributes to free software on a significant scale. Red Hat develops DBUS. Novell develops Mono. Canonical ships CD around the world free of charge.
Linspire invests in CodeWeavers, who develop a proprietary system for running Windows applications. They develop Click ‘n Run, a proprietary application that installs special kinds of software packages, and is especially focused on installing proprietary software. The provide a one-click way for users to violate the IP rights of the Linux community by downloading binary kernel modules and linking them with the kernel.
Linspire’s core vision of becoming the Linux platform of choice for proprietary software vendors is one that has obvious merit. They have a willing and waiting market of perhaps millions of PC users who want hassle-free Linux.
However, regardless of what Linspire has to offer to the desktop Linux market, they have nothing to offer the free software community. They don’t develop free software, they don’t make meaningful investments in free software, and they aren’t active in the free software community. So why, exactly, should the free software community devote their resources to Freespire?
I have a feeling this whole thing will run its course. Linspire will make an effort to set up an appropriate community infrastructure. Hopefully this will include a source repository that doesn’t consist of a directory of 5 or 6 iso files. The system will obviously pale in comparison to the infrastructure set up for the other community distro projects, and very few developers will participate.
Why should they?
“Linspire invests in CodeWeavers, who develop a proprietary system for running Windows applications.”
That proprietary system is called Wine..the source code is available. What Codeweavers does is tweak it for the applications.
Before you criticize Linspire as being wholly self-serving you should take a look at how much money they’ve contributed to various projects and conferences as well as some products that Linspire has even spawned such as the Nvu web development tool (Yes I know it’s not from scratch but it’s a fork).
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php
You might say they don’t have anything to offer the free software community, and in an extremely narrow-sighted strict sense you are correct. However, what Linspire is really helping the free software community with is greater acceptance and a fortified userbase, both of which should not be overlooked. It’s a good distribution, rather than hate on it if it’s not your style give it props for doing the right thing ultimately and making adoption easier for many people.
Nvu – once again another project they created to put in their distro. And it is my guess that is what they are selling for 49.95 as CompareWeb. So yea, this is still self serving. I would like to look at how much they have contributed but I never have seen a dollar amount.
Greater acceptance of a distro that basically makes a statement that you can not have a good desktop experience without proprietary software. And if that is true why bother with linux?
Linux is not and never was about having a completely free platform where proprietary software doesn’t exist, and Nvu is not a some cash cow for them. Nobody’s purchasing a Linspire license to utilize this piece of software specifically, people are purchasing Linspire licenses to have an extremely easy to use Windows replacement.
Furthermore, you conveniently ignored my link to their various announcements about what they’ve sponsored and just what they were in terms of helping to make things happen by donating a significant portion. For the Desktop Linux Summit alone they were in the top 4, and they also help keep alive sites that I personally enjoy very much as a contribution to the community, including KDE-Look.org.
An OS that contributes nothing back to the free software
Lphoto and Lsongs are both are both free software programs released under the GPL and developed by Linspire.
Lphoto isn’t a bad little program I had it running on Mandrake 9.2 some time ago.
Edited 2006-08-03 14:11
I think that is Lsongs. I personally am not overly impressed with it but anyway. Does it count as contributing back if you are simply making a music app to use on your distro? maybe…
I think that is Lsongs. I personally am not overly impressed with it but anyway.
No I tried Lphoto not Lsongs. Lphoto is OK but offers no great advantages over Digikam and is not in the same class as Picasa – Then Picasa in not FOSS but Lphoto is.
I have not tried Lsongs.
Edited 2006-08-03 17:04
If you actually believe that “Linspire’s core vision of becoming the Linux platform of choice for proprietary software vendors is one that has obvious merit. They have a willing and waiting market of perhaps millions of PC users who want hassle-free Linux.”, then you could also believe that code isn’t the only thing a distro can contribute.
Maybe some developers want to contribute to such an obviously meritorious endeavor. Maybe the only thing Linspire needs to “give back” is a visible route to that hassle-free Linux that perhaps millions of people want. Maybe Linspire will make certain people realize the options and possibilities that Linux(distros) make possible. If so, maybe they have given something you can’t code: publicity.
It does NOT have any dcc alliance or ubuntu elements that I know of.
The plan was to have two versions. What happened to the “free” version? Looks like they recreated Linspire and that is about it, oh and dropped the cost. Hope to spread that CNR stuff I guess. Heck, Linspire almost always has a freebie coupon out there somewhere so it is usually gratis as well.
Oh, and apt almost works would be a more apt statement.
Here is a question – If you are going to start a new “community” based distro then do you start with the old version of Linspire or start with a fresh freeze of sid? Nope, they started with Linspire.
It is a step in the right direction, but so far it is a small step but with lots of talk about a big step.
Does Linspire contribute?
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_license.php#ope
Do they have good leadership at Freespire?
http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Freespire_Leadership_Board_Home
Something tells me that freespire is going to do just fine. It would be nice if people would do some research before attacking them. It just gets old and rather pathetic. RC1 is just a small step in the process. The real fun will be after the first official release. People should take the time to read the road map.
http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Freespire_Roadmap
There will be releases happening on a frequent basis – I’m not sure what benefit there will be to reviewing each incremental step along the way. LOL Perhaps writers should hold off until freespire 1.0 is released.
Yes, they do contribute. They contribute to there profits and only when it directly affects them. Essentially trying to buy solutions for themselves. They re-create instead of contributing to current projects. I also do not see any dollar amounts. A handful of those ARE linspire projects so they contribute to themselves?
They sponsor debconf along with about a hundred others!
Looks like they really bought the namebrand for that leadership board.
per the roadmap – where is the free version?
per the roadmap – is apt working, I bet CNR is working just fine isn’t it.
But for the most part linspire is no more hassle free than other distros. It is built from the same parts therefore a lot of the same problems.
I also think that once people realize that the distro they are supporting is trying to be just like windows and succeeding in a lot of (proprietary) ways then I hope they realize they just jumped from one proprietary system to another.
I do believe RMS had a bit to say about “trading one master for another” when shifting from Microsoft to Lindows.
yet another linspire article
oops YAFA
“per the roadmap – where is the free version?
per the roadmap – is apt working, I bet CNR is working just fine isn’t it.”
Good question – I’ve been wondering where the free version was – not that I would use it. Sorry, I don’t have a problem with a system with proprietary code in it. I use what works!
As far as apt/cnr – apt works just fine. What they did was pointed apt to the same repositories that CNR uses. There are programs that you pay for that you need to use CNR to install. A legal DVD player for example. Win4Lin for another. I just apt-get install synaptic and away ya go…
I just find it interesting how people get so hung up on the politics of Linux. It seems silly to me. I use several different distros including Linspire, Ubuntu, Debian. I don’t hear people jumping all over Xandros or Mandriva and they have the same business model pretty much. I am not a Linux guru – I just want my desktop to work. I enjoy installing and tinkering, but I do not write code or get into the innards of Linux. I’m the guy that these Desktop Distros are trying to woo. Linspire does a good job at what they do or I wouldn’t keep coming back them. Yep, I get bored since it just works – so I give another distro a shot where I have pull my hair out and figure how the heck to install something.
What I see here and at slashdot are folks who have a negative perception based on outdated and false information. Seems rather ignorant to me to carry a grudge about a simple OS. Sorry if that rubs folks wrong – I just find it weird.
You seem to imply that without proprietary software and code that linux doesn’t work. Sounds about like the linspire philosophy…but if I felt that way I would just use windows instead of having to deal with all the changes of linux especially as it relates to proprietary software.
What was the point of freespire if they were just going to make a no-cost linspire?
So can you apt-get upgrade? Can you apt-get install gnome? Yep, they pointed it to that convoluted mess that is the CNR warehouse, with old software and packages with security risks. How is that good?
I wouldn’t think you would pull your hair out since you already stated that you know about apt/synaptic and that is how you install software on a lot of otehr distros. Maybe because you have got so used to the proprietary (CNR) way of installing you have trouble using a more common and fairly simply way of installing software?
Why is this a grudge? Can someone hold a grudge against a OS, I doubt it.
I’m ashamed at you Seakryan….how dare you spend your hard earned money on a pc and then expect to have an OS that actually works. Don’t you understand how much better the experience is if you just sit and study what Freepire is doing for the open source fanatics as opposed to actually using your computer for anything worthwhile and then going on and enjoying other parts of you life.
Interesting if GM funds an electronics company to improve upon any certain device to make their automobiles more appealing to consumers it’s not frowned upon. If Linspire does anything to improve an app to make Linux look more appealing then idiots post stupid comments on forums about how Linspire is only trying to fill their pockets.
Ever wonder why these folks who are so worried about all this free this and that, spent all their time bashing Linspire? If they’re so damned worried about free then you’d think they’d realize they’d have a lot more FREE time if the put their efforts toward something besideds their endless hating of CNR.
I’ll bet ya we’ll get to hear more Linspire/Freespire hating coming right up…..wanna bet on it? After all….isn’t that what these forums are for? To hear distro A users kick Distro B in the nuts and then wonder why Linux never moves forward ;/
As far as the kicking…I usually find that more at linspire forums that anywhere else.
We all know that linux moves forward but I do not think Linspire has anything to do with it. I hope I can state my opinion since you can state yours.
I don’t care if they ever make anything free, but since that was suppose to be the reason for freespire I find it strange that it seems to have lost importance. Seems like they are just milking the freespire name again to get some press and some cnr bucks.
Oh believe me, as a regular Linspire user I’m well aware of *your* opinion dave err I mean dean or whatever handle you’re going by today.
How long has it been dean, a year or so now of your neverending opinions about CNR.
Most of the time those who don’t vote can’t complain….if you never gave Linspire a dime then what is your main problem? It’s more than apparant that you’re not doing anything about the betterment of Linux…..just read your posts here and at Freespire’s forums.
You’re exactly what’s holding Linux back, you should be proud.
This hatred of Linspire is really astounding.
How dare they try to turn a profit by offering good, easy to use products? It’s evil for a corporation to make money, right?
How dare they offer their product for free (as in beer), so that more people will sample it. That sure makes them evil.
How dare they give money to open source projects, and develop their own software, Lphoto, Lsongs, NVU, and release it under the GPL. How evil of them.
How dare they try to make a very easy to use Linux distro, where as much stuff as possible works out of the box, and appeals to non-technical people accustomed to Windows. Making a Linux distro easy and appealing to non-techs is evil, right?
How dare they package proprietary codecs and drivers, just like several other distros (Knoppix, Mepis, Kanotix, PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, Ubuntu – through automatix – and many others), in order to deliver a complete out of the box experience for non-tech users. Those other distros are pure and virtuous, while Linspire is evil, right?
How dare Linspire take on Microsoft by initially naming their distro Lindows, and coming out a winner with a $10 million settlement from MS, and getting a better name with Linspire. That’s evil.
Really, sometimes the OSS community is it’s own worse enemy. When someone is so extreme with their ideals, they just drive people away. It’s the same in politics, religion, anything.
I love the GPL and OSS. And I say the more GPL, OSS stuff, the better. I almost always prefer, all other things being equal, GPL, OSS offerings over proprietary ones. But I, just like anyones else, have limited time to fiddle to make things work. I want to be productive, and want the least amount of fuss to get things working. I’m technical, too, This situation is even more so with non technical people. Thus, Linspire is doing OSS a huge favor. Get over it.
Ok, so you love GPL, OSS and proprietary? So do you think that as long as
I think that was 20 million. A company that takes a 20 million payoff and the people who call that a win – well I don’t agree with either. Sorry.
Once again another post that implies OSS/GPL is all about fiddling and making things work whereas proprietary just works. I honestly would be using windows if I felt that way.
No not evil to make money at all. Last time I checked though Linspire still didn’t actually make any money – just red ink.
“Once again another post that implies OSS/GPL is all about fiddling and making things work whereas proprietary just works. I honestly would be using windows if I felt that way.”
Not saying that at all. For me, most OSS stuff works quite easily and quite well. But when you get to stuff like Flash, MP3, NVidia or ATI 3D, many digital cameras, WiFi, many USB devices, sticking to pure OSS becomes much more difficult. Particurarily for people not used to downloading stuff, tweaking this, changing that, apt-getting the other thing, etc. Lispire, and Xandros, and Mepis, and Mandriva, and a host of others, package the proprietary stuff so that the non-technical end user gets the complete, out of the box experience, and doesn’t run away screaming.
I essentially agree with RMS, in that this is a hard comprimise for the sake of convenience. But really, I think losing a small, temporary proprietary vs OSS battle helps win the larger OSS expansion war.
“Last time I checked though Linspire still didn’t actually make any money – just red ink.
“
Very good point. But they are trying very hard to make money.
LOL – I thought your posts sounded familiar. deanlinkous – don’t be shy. You can come out – OSNEWS will more than likely not ban you like some of those other forums. I’m sure you already hav multiple accounts here as well. LOL
Now tell us Dave – what do you really think about Linspire/freespire… LOL
who the hell is dave?
What incentive, what drive is their to go open source if we keep sticking proprietary in the distro. NONE! Where does proprietary lead us – right back down the same street. Yes, it is a slightly different street and parts of the street will always be different but the destination is the same. You aren’t losing a temporary battle, if proprietary is what we accept then nobody will bother with open source. That is permanent! Especially in regard to drivers. If someone wants to create a proprietary application for linux then I can live with that since you will always have a choice but drivers are another matter.
Once again if I felt that way about proprietary I would not waste my time using linux. What would be the point-XP is best at proprietary and that is what I would be using.
I ask again – what was the purpose of freespire if it is just linspire minus the cost? Oh, I know – more CNR revenue we hope…
I think we can all figure out the linspire attitude toward linux and proprietary but if not then this from Kevin Carmony says a lot:
“It was reported this week that Novell has banned all proprietary software from their Linux offerings. To me, this would be a bit like McDonalds announcing it will adopt an Atkins-only menu, selling only healthy, low-carb salads, and dropping fries, shakes, and the Big Mac as we know it.”
You can read more here http://forum.linspire.com/viewtopic.php?t=424879
Oh and actually that is yet another horrible analogy in numerous ways not the least of which is that food isn’t covered by the GPL.:)
Oh and this one from Mr. Carmony:
“I have a future blog about GPL3, which not only keeps the one hand tied behind Linux’s back, but goes even further and puts on blindfolds as well.”
If the GPL is so bad why are you making a OS with it. Or should I say why did you buy a OS from Xandros that is linux based?
And he keeps saying this over and over everywhere:
“Freespire offers The OSS Edition, which, like Novell’s offerings now, is completely free of any proprietary software.”
Where is this OSS edition? Why offer that if 99% (his figure, not mine) of users want and need proprietary? He just got done arguing that proprietary is good and that atkins or something is bad so then he chooses to also offer a atkins version?
To me proprietary software is one thing but proprietary drivers are another. And a operating systems that doesn’t allow anyone to choose whether or not they have proprietary pieces is not offering choice at all.
Oh and I love this quote from Mr. Carmony
“I’m not interested in moving from one controlling monopoly to another equally-limiting option. As Pete Townsend and The Who so aptly put it in Won’t Get Fooled Again, “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” Thanks, but no thanks.”
Dude, proprietary was/is the boss. That is how power is maintained. If you want to play then you have to play proprietary because noone else can offer it. How is open and free a equally limiting option? I do find it ironic that he uses a very similar quote as RMS uses to describe Linspire,something along the lines of trading one master for another.
And posts over at the Linspire forum also tells me about the linspire attitude. Like this thread
http://forum.linspire.com/viewtopic.php?t=424830
That is a nice example of the nut kicks for another distro – wouldnt you agree. Yes, yes, we all know Linspire is the best linux and no other can live up to it. Wonder why they still bleed red ink?
Because SuSe is in effect removing what makes a desktop distro a desktop distro and people are wondering why the sudden move?
Come on Dave, you’ve got much better examples as to why Linspire sucks than that? Loads of Linspire users also use SuSe, not to mention all the other distro’s out there that Linspire has vaulted some of us into after we got our feet wet.
If adding to the Linux userbase is a bad thing then yes Linspire does suck and you’re correct. Doubtful though.;-/
I’ve used Mandrake, Red Hat, Yellow Dog and now Linspire and even Lindows. I believe Linspire has stumbled onto something greater than the original dream years ago. Bill Gates is scared and trying to come up with new skeems to break up the Linux community. Only problem is that we are a FREE community… FREE to develop any type of distro and or app we choose that fits our purpose. I’ve come across a couple websites already that only works with ie6, not Mozilla or any variation of Mozilla. So the problem actually lies within our own FREE AMERICA… the same America that was attacked Sept. 11, 2001 by people who thought they had to right to distroy us because we didn’t believe in their God. Are those who don’t understand our beliefs at fault? YES… why? Because they don’t do the necessary research to find out the TRUTH. The truth about Linux is that it was developed to provide an alternative (Free or Proprietary) to Microsoft Windows. The problem started at that point… some programmers went the FREE route and others went the PROPRIETARY route. Then it snowballed from there because there was no standardizations put into place… now there is, but I feel it’s too little too late, but who knows, something just might come about. Since standardizations are now in place for the Linux community, Linspire’s stumble is going to come to light in a BIG way with it’s CNR. All other Linux distros will soon see the light at the end of the tunnel and signup to have CNR as part of their distro too.
Edited 2006-08-04 01:40
“All other Linux distros will soon see the light at the end of the tunnel and signup to have CNR as part of their distro too”
That is right, amen to that brother.
That post was tonge in cheek wasn’t it?