Home > Red Hat > Third Red Hat Limbo Beta Released Third Red Hat Limbo Beta Released Submitted by Richard Goodwin 2002-08-19 Red Hat 38 Comments The third (“null”) beta of Red Hat Linux has been updated. New in this release include lots of bug fixes and gcc-3.2. Gcc-3.2 allows for better ABI compatibility going forward. Note that C++ apps compiled on the first beta will not run on this beta. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 38 Comments 2002-08-19 9:46 pm Damnit! I was installing over FTP and everything crumbled on me half-way-through! The word is out and I now have to fight the traffic 2002-08-19 9:51 pm Looking great! They’re truly giving this a work over and its turning into a solid, well rounded release. GNOME 2 looks great out of the box here, so I’m happy. Looking forward to testing this one out….right now 2002-08-19 9:56 pm I just downloaded beta 2 and now they have again a new one… whatever I do, they are one step agead 2002-08-19 10:01 pm Uh….upgrade? 2002-08-19 10:01 pm I will be installing only the final version… Enough with the betas. I run Gentoo these days which each ‘world update’ generates new problems when fixing older ones, so I really want something stable now. Debian is not of my taste for a number of reasons, and Red Hat does well these days. I think Red Hat 8 will indeed be my primary Linux partition (I always have 3-4 more Linux distros installed on my PCs anyway). 2002-08-19 10:08 pm The current Time magazine has an article on desktop linux . Funny thing is: they mentioned Lycoris and Lindows, and nothing else. Typical media article. Shame http://www.time.com/time/columnist/taylor/article/0,9565,338704,00…. 2002-08-19 10:18 pm Hi Eugenia, Is it me or the fonts in the tables changed? Now they look uglier. I wonder what is wrong because I haven’t changed anything on my KDE 3.0.0-10 with a 3.0.0-12 konqueror browser. Let me know if this is only my problem. Thanks 2002-08-19 10:21 pm Yes, I changed it to TimesNewRoman and if your system doesn’t have this specific one, it will load Sans-serif or Arial. I might change it to Verdana Size 1, but that would be small for some people. I didn’t like the previous font, it had problems with some OSes. Anyways, if you want to ask such questions just email please, do not post off topic. 2002-08-19 10:37 pm Has anyone tried both Limbo and Mandrake’s 9.0 beta? How do they compare? Which has the better UI design and is more joe-user friendly? 2002-08-19 11:13 pm I have used both RH Limbo 2 and Mandrake 9.0 beta 1&2… out of them I choose RH because I Like Gnome2 soooo much, and everything looks so smooth in RH whereas in Mandrake lots of things aren’t so smooth(atleast to me)… also RH loaded programs ALOT faster… I mean this is noticable load time decrease in progs like XMMS Mozilla and some others that I tend to use…. only prob is GAIM was messed up on my RH install =( 2002-08-19 11:18 pm I tried both and I think Redhat is way ahead. Maybe part of it is that Redhat has better graphic designers which makes it look more “professional”. Mandrake’s installer looks really 1998 or something. I also think Redhat’s system tools are more nicely integrated into the desktop. 2002-08-19 11:19 pm I should add that I haven’t tried Limbo Beta 3 yet, I was referring to beta-2 for both Mandrake and Redhat. 2002-08-19 11:25 pm If you’ve only seen beta 2 or 3, beta 5 is worlds different, so worth a look 🙂 2002-08-19 11:35 pm I am glad to see that my favourite Linux distro is doing great! I haven’t tried any of the Limbos but I will install the final product. From what I have read/seen so far, it’s gotta be good! 2002-08-20 12:12 am >> Beta 5 is totally different >> Just out of curiosity, is this one really beta 5? After RHValhalla finally came to be RH7.3, and If I’m not wrong, first Limbo was RH7.3.92. Second Limbo was RH7.3.93. This RH beta, codenamed ‘Null’, is version 7.3.94. Which are the other betas? Right now I’m still downloading the OEone Homebase desktop over a RH7.1 (with a 56k modem, ‘haven’t fixed yet my ADSL on Linux (:|) ), so I still cannot try Null. Richard, please explain what’s so different in this last beta. I was reading the RH7.3.94 ‘Null’ release notes (ftp://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/redhat/linux/beta/null/en/os/i386/RELE…), and though impressive (I liked Limbo2 a lot), some things seem to have been already present since Limbo-1. These are a few of my favorite notes: -A new installation type called Personal Desktop is now available which installs pre-selected software for home or small-office use. -The entire graphical installation is gtk2-based -PM will also suggest package(s) that will satisfy unresolved dependencies if the rpmdb-redhat package is installed -HZ=512 on i686 and Athlon means that the system clock ticks 5 times as fast as on other x86 platforms (i386 and i586); HZ=100 has been the Linux default on x86 platforms for the entire history of the Linux kernel. This change provides better interactive response, lower latency response from some programs, and better response from the scheduler. What is so different? Any visual UI changes with GNOME2.03?… 2002-08-20 12:20 am … 2002-08-20 1:07 am Granted it’s mostly graphical changes, but many would argue that’s what most distros need the most at this point. The installer is just “pretty” <grin> and has a far better method of package grouping, selections, and descriptions, everything is AA, new icons everywhere. The KDE and Gnome desktops are sync’ed up, i.e. the menu items, icons, layout are uniform across both environments, which is great for new users, or those who dont want to be punished for their choice of desktop… As for the speed improvements everyone is hoping for from GCC 3.x, and the faster timed kernel, I’m not sure I could tell a difference. Then again my test install machine was only a 500mhz. Forgive the bad grammar, I kept going back and adding things in the first paragraph 😉 2002-08-20 1:13 am (I don’t have my install available at this minute, so I’m posting as things come back to me) -The Open Office apps are prominently placed in the task bar – Mozilla has a new icon of a space ship blasting off of the earth ( a shot at IE’s globe icon?) – The “Start Here” of the GNOME desktop is also on the KDE desktop, and has new icons and items are grouped logically – Preference dialogs for what happens when CD-ROM/Audio CD/DVD are inserted (I hadn’t seen before, this may not be new to RH8) – Default choice apps for web pages, etc, like the stuff added in W2k in SP3. Lots of little touches like those above that make you feel you finally have an elegant degree of control over the oodles of Linux/GNOME/KDE options. 🙂 More as I remember, and I encourage others to post 🙂 2002-08-20 1:23 am I’m glad time spoke of Lycoris and Lindows. If a person knows what they’re doing with a computer, they can install and run stuff like Mandrake and SuSE. And it sounds like Red Hat is getting in there too. But, as far as Joe User is concerned, these ditros are out of the picture at this point. i really like Lycoeis – I just wish they had the Microtel/Walmart deal instad of Lindows. This brings up something that has come with the PC explosion. Buying a PC, signing up for AOL or MSN is so easy that there are all these millions of computer users out there that are actually still computer illiterate. There know absolutely nothing about computing per se. I don’t mean that to sound arrogant…It’s just that there are all these people who don’t even know how to use word processors. Some only know how to use aOL. I’m glad it is so easy now and am in favor of Linux distros like Lycoris. But it is ironic how everything has turned out. 2002-08-20 1:29 am I just finished downloading beta2 an hour ago and now this. I have to start all over again. 2002-08-20 1:55 am This is really shaping up to be a great desktop oriented release. My biggest complaint with most linux distros (fonts) has been dramatically improved with these betas. Hopefully they will get the new gnome x86 config program up to par as well as their new package manager. 2002-08-20 2:46 am Does anyone know if it’s possible to upgrade the beta2 to beta3 without downloading the isos? I’d like to avoid downloading the isos again as I’m getting overrun with install cds of various OSes. 2002-08-20 3:17 am I noticed people talking about mozilla but does it come with Galeon and does it come with Evolution and does the gnome-pda stuff come with it. It would be nice to completely have a usable Gnome 2.0 desktop so nice I won’t have to rush to Ximian to get Evolution, gnome-pda, Galeon and cleaned up functional desktop. 2002-08-20 3:33 am You should be able to do a network install… download the bootnet.img and write it to a floppy, and boot it. Then you do an “ftp” or “http” install, and point it at the architecture directory of the place you’re installing from. Like, I did an FTP install with server “ftp.freshrpms.net”, and path “/pub/redhat/linux/beta/null/en/os/i386”. No pretty GUI install, but it just upgrades what’s new. =) 2002-08-20 6:27 am HELP! Sorry for the caps 😉 Couldn’t find ANY servers that is fast. grrrr. linux_baby: Damnit! I was installing over FTP and everything crumbled on me half-way-through! The word is out and I now have to fight the traffic Slefish little penguin…. kevin: Has anyone tried both Limbo and Mandrake’s 9.0 beta? How do they compare? Which has the better UI design and is more joe-user friendly? I have both. The major difference between Mandrake 9.0b2 and 8.2 is the versions of the software used, the KDE and GNOME and the version of GCC used. Nothing significant – but there is a huge speed boost. Red Hat 8.0 on the other hand is much better than Mandrake 9.0, even me being a Mandrake fan and a KDE fan. Simply because they integrated most, if not all, of their tools in GNOME 2.0. It is really much simpler to use than Mandrake. Mandrake new releaes have pratically no difference, except for the software bundled. This is sad because from 7.2 to 8.0 was great, but this is just sad. Alex: I am glad to see that my favourite Linux distro is doing great! I haven’t tried any of the Limbos but I will install the final product. From what I have read/seen so far, it’s gotta be good! Well….. only version of Red Hat I liked. Most likely I wouldn’t use it as my main production center, but it is easier to recommend Red Hat or other the likes of Mandrake and SuSE and the likes of Windows clones. Richard: As for the speed improvements everyone is hoping for from GCC 3.x, and the faster timed kernel, I’m not sure I could tell a difference. Then again my test install machine was only a 500mhz. The people who DON’T see a speed improvement could have very little RAM (your MHz is irrelevant). The speed would drop though matter what compiler you use if the application have to use the swap. Jay: i really like Lycoeis – I just wish they had the Microtel/Walmart deal instad of Lindows. They aren’t that cost effective as Lindows. Lindows has a flat rate fee for each model, where else Lycoris has per-seat licensing. And the price isn’t much different from the price of MS Windows OEM. So, for the real thing (the real UI), just pay an extra 15 bucks, which isn’t that much… I noticed people talking about mozilla but does it come with Galeon and does it come with Evolution and does the gnome-pda stuff come with it. It would be nice to completely have a usable Gnome 2.0 desktop so nice I won’t have to rush to Ximian to get Evolution, gnome-pda, Galeon and cleaned up functional desktop. IIRC, Evolution, gnome-pda and Galeon versions that have been bundled into Limbo 2 is based on gtk 1.x. Can’t wait for some stable GNOME 2.0 apps, maybe then I could use GNOME 2.0 Besides, since Microsoft had claimed Internet Explorer is a generic name in a trademark suite… why not Red Hat bundle Galeon and rename it to Internet Explorer. Pack in somethings (like Cross Over Plugin) to give compatiblity to IE, and people would be less afraid to use Linux…. 🙂 Great idea, no? Maybe Lycoris should do this though… 2002-08-20 9:47 am How is this possible? 2002-08-20 11:15 am Well Limbo 3 was my first grab at the Limbo betas, and I have to say I’m very impressed, my parents came over to visit and my dad noticed my very interesting desktop and asked if he could toy around. Well even my dad being very computer illiterate was able to browse the net configure his e-mail, play around with openoffice and even browse around the packaging system. Now I have my dad begging me to install Limbo on his computer, I won’t install Limbo but I sure will install 8.0 final on his computer. My impression was shock, I mean it’s not Windows it’s not Mac OS it has it’s own feel and I say damn fine job Red Hat! You’ve managed to comply to the needs of a 50 year old and a young techy kid (that’s me!). 2002-08-20 11:20 am >> slefish little penguin No no, I wasn’t even sure it was the new limbo (see earlier articles on OSNEWS). I just discovered that the null directory had become publicly accessible on the main redhat ftp site (not on the mirrows then). And my curiosity took over Who would think they leave it named as NULL? > why not Red Hat bundle Galeon anid > rename it to Internet Explorer. > Pack in somethings (like Cross > Over Plugin) to give > compatiblity to Naah, not necessary. Also too complicated for joe user, and again dependent on the mercy of Redmond. Mozilla is its own brand and people will get used to it (I wish Mozilla would change the logo though). I remember when Internet Explorer came out. The name sounded funny and unpronounceable back then Galeon is great, but I don’t think Redhat should bundle it in the default installation. One browser is enough – keep it simple for users. Mozilla is a good enough standard and is being actively developed and supported. If you are a geek, you can easily install galeon or whatever you want. 2002-08-20 12:19 pm I’m currently running Beta 1 on my laptop. Has the package manager been fixed to allow both install and uninstall in Beta 3? 2002-08-20 1:29 pm It’s version 1.0.8, and seems to use the newer GTK, but I’m not an expert. It looks “crisp” like the other apps, and the fonts look AA. Dunno. 2002-08-20 1:47 pm Would anyone mind taking some digital pics of the Limbo installer and posting a link/submitting them to Eugenia? I’d love to see the gtk2 integration. -fp 2002-08-20 2:43 pm i want screenshots of everything. startup, installer, bootup, shutdown, login, desktop, configuration tools, gnome2 configuration, themes, wallpapers, monitor, computer, cdrom, person installing! anyone kind enough? i just don’t want to download this right now. i’m waiting to buy the boxed set if it looks really good. i have a pool table so no need for vpool3. all i need now is a good gui, and windows is gone. and i won’t even have to sell my p3 500mhz dell craptiplex! 2002-08-20 2:52 pm Nope – Evolution is not GTK2 yet. Ximian’s planning to hit 1.2 (fix bugs + add features) by Oct/Nov (AFAIK) and work on a GNOME 2 version from then on. I am waiting for stable GTK2 versions of all the apps. There are of course quite a few beta gtk2 versions out there – and some of them are very, very stable (and usable)! I’ll get some screenies of null up as soon as I get back from work. 2002-08-20 3:12 pm The Red Hat betas sound very exciting. I’ve been mostly sticking to distros that Joe User can use – to see the progress in that area. But, it looks like I’m going to be trying out the final version of Red Hat. 2002-08-20 8:04 pm Great. Anaconda can’t start X on my laptop even though 7.2 works perfectly fine. :shrug: I’m not going to sift through the text installer so I guess I won’t be trying this. 2002-08-20 8:17 pm I will as well post some screenshots when I get back from work. It’s one of the first times I’ve actually been excited to use Linux. GCC 3.2 produces some very nice code, my benchmarks from my compiled kernel (for my Athlon XP) far exceed results from when I compiled a kernel with 3.1. 2002-08-21 6:49 am Okay, I just got it installed, and it has improved since the last beta for sure. Gnome doesn’t crawl quite as slow, configuration tool integration is really, really nice. Things are smoother. People may be right to call this a Windows killer. I am extremely impressed. Give it another year and it truly will be. Anyone who can use Windows can use this. Of course, the application problem hasn’t been solved yet. Gnome2 doesn’t have any apps at all. The platform is ready, now people need to develop for it. 2002-08-21 2:12 pm Tell me, what mirror have you used? The stable servers would go to speeds as low as 1kbps, and the fast ones would close the connection after downloading more than 1/2 of the ISOs….. So frustrating…..