Microsoft has once again tweaked the name of the successor to Windows 2000 Server, in a move that suggests its official release won’t come until next year. During the Redmond, Wash.-based company’s annual employee meeting this week, executives revealed that the follow-up to Windows 2000 Server will be called Windows .Net Server 2003. Read more at ZDNews.
.Net Server’s New Name Suggests Delay
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Is anyone really suprised by this? Has Microsoft ever released a product on the originally scheduled date?
They probably need the extra time to create a .NET epidemic throughout the system so people won’t be able to avoid using it.
Better late than sorry. Software development is almost never on time. For any company or developer. Not just for Ms.
> to create a .NET epidemic throughout the system…
Please stop the trolling and if you want comment in this story, have something useful to say. If not, better not say anything.
Microsoft AutoRoute 2002 was released in 2001. Go figure.
Office XP (Word 2002, Outlook 2002, PowerPoint 2002, Excel 2002, etc…) was released in May of 2001. This is a naming scheme to make the product feel newer longer.
Same with car companies releasing the 2003 Acura TL, for example, in March 2002 or so. Or computer magazines being available more than a month in advance. It is nothing new.
People won’t upgrade right away. So it makes sense to designate it as a 2003 product. It will be mostly used in 2003 and later, not in 2002.
to create a .NET epidemic throughout the system…
What’s up with all the trolling and fudding? .NET is a very interesting thing, esepcially from a technological point of view. A lot of companies have contributed to it. To name one example: QKS (Quasar Knowledge Systems), which should be known to Apple folks. They worked on the AOS (Agents Object System) platform. It appears that working with Apple has been a very difficult thing. That’s why they moved to Windows and worked extensively with Microsoft on the .NET stuff (mostly virtual machine technology, I believe).
I am running .NET Server right now. It is a very nice product. So, please, stop your trolling and make some more intelligent posts.
I don’t see any .NET epidemic. The framework is installed, yes, but no shipped tools use it, and ASP.NET is optional. So what epidemic?
I thought Windows 2000 was going to be the last OS with a year in the name.
Let’s see:
Windows 98
Windows 2000
Windows XP
Windows .NET Server 2003?????
Why not just call it XP Server or JUST .NET Server?
Even if .NET Server 2003 comes out in 2002, I’m sure some marketing study figured out that similarly to car manufacturers, you mark the model year as later than the release year, like how 2003 models come out in 2002, so that in 2006, when the car is 4 years old, it seems newer to the owner.
Maybe they are doing this as a result of the Windows 95 fiasco, where they named it 95, but it came out in 96, and in 97, it seemed ancient, and it seemed forever between Windows 95 and 98.
I don’t know. Regardless, no .NET servers will ever touch our network. We run NetWare, and when Novell goes under we’ll switch to UNIX.
MrCranky
No, Windows 95 was in fact released in 1995, August 24. Sad that I still remember that date; Microsoft ran tons of add how “August 24th will no longer be remembered as [insert relatively obscure occurrence on August 24]”. Seems to have worked well enough. =)
Windows 95 was released in August 95. I don’t know where you got the idea that it came out in 96. Also, in 98 I bought a laptop with Windows 98 on it.
Maybe they are doing this as a result of the Windows 95 fiasco, where they named it 95, but it came out in 96
Wrong. Win95 shipped in August of 1995. Compare to Windows 2000 which was shipped to OEMS in December of 1999. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that .NET server will have delays, but nowadays that number is marketing, kids. Don’t read too much into it.
No trolling about it. .NET is a ActiveX with some XML put in it. It’s not a real cross-platform solution. Most people don’t even know what the hell does .NET do? Can I deploy to Mac or AS/400s? Of course not. After all their so called virtual machine are made only for x86 running Windows.
.NET is ammo against Sun/Java that’s all. It’s all hype. I’m not impressed at all. Java can do all this and more. This is all just bad Baklava.
I am running .NET Server right now. It is a very nice product. So, please, stop your trolling and make some more intelligent posts.
What’s the point. No one gets them anyway.
Besides, what “intellegent” thing can possibly be said about a software title or its shipping date? “I think it’s a good name.” “I think it might ship in January.” Duh.
Every post in this article so far is based on conjecture, opinion and product name history. Nothing really groundbreaking or “intelligent”.
You yourself said, “.NET is a very interesting thing, esepcially from a technological point of view.” I disagree; having actually used it. I think it is a convoluted mess of crappy technologies like ASP and IIS (at least for now). C# and ADO are the only redeeming parts of the whole .NET blob as far as I’m concerned.
So I guess it is okay for you to post an opinion positive about .NET, but because I think your opinion is incorrect, I’m a troll? I don’t fathom your logic.
And actually, since .NET will eventually replace programming with the Win32 API (at least that is the goal) my post is not without merit. I just made a comment, which is probably true, with a tone of contempt; which is what I usually feel for Microsoft. Why is that any less valid or deserving than all the Microsoft glad-handing that goes on here?
By the way Eugenia, I’m not trolling. I’m offering an opinion just as every other post here has. If you can prove than none of the delays to .NET Server are .NET related and they are not tangling .NET into the OS, I will apologize for my remark. Just because you don’t agree with what I said doesn’t make it any less valid; or a troll.
Better late than sorry.
That’s not the problem. Having worked there I can tell you that they aren’t the best a creating a dev plan and sticking to it. Most software companies call it feature creep. It always alters the schedule, and it’s not always a good thing.
Software development is almost never on time. For any company or developer. Not just for Ms.
I disagree. For all the custom apps I develop, I am always on time or ahead of schedule. Why? because I know my abilities and I know how to plan. I have also worked for several big software companies who usually ship on schedule as well (international products usually being the exception).
> If you can prove than none of the delays to .NET Server are .NET related and they are not tangling .NET into the OS, I will apologize for my remark.
If you can prove the opposite then I will allow that comment you did.
What are you trying to say? That Microsoft is guilty for *everything* they do until and if they get proved innocent? That kind of thinking is absurd and it is called “trolling”. I am sorry.
No trolling about it. .NET is a ActiveX with some XML put in it. It’s not a real cross-platform solution. Most people don’t even know what the hell does .NET do? Can I deploy to Mac or AS/400s? Of course not. After all their so called virtual machine are made only for x86 running Windows.
Obviously your knowledge of .NET is limited. I won’t go into detail here because there are lots of sites explaining what .NET is. Of course it won’t be real cross-platform – because people just complain about it instead of getting it ported onto every platform imaginable.
.NET is ammo against Sun/Java that’s all. It’s all hype. I’m not impressed at all. Java can do all this and more. This is all just bad Baklava.
As always, Java can do anything including baking my birthday cake. Why is it so bad to have some competing technologies out there? .NET is no more hype than Java is. It is difficult to hype anything more than Java.
The second paragraph of your first post was pure trolling. A useless comment. Of course there is not much intelligent to say about the release date of a product. However, you felt it necessary to bash .NET just because of that.
Today there have been a few stories floating around concerning Sun sueing MS over inclusion of Java in Windows. Now that is what I would call spreading an epidemic… Feel free to attack this comment, but your hipocrisy is ridiculous.
http://www.sys-con.com/java/articleab.cfm?ID=1597
Almost every move Microsoft has made has been to kill competing products rather than push the barriers wth their own.
Whilst .NET is interesting, it would be naive to assume they didn’t have some underlying agenda with it.
An analogy, a criminal has a criminal record which is held against him. Microsoft should suffer the same kind of shackle.
If you can prove the opposite then I will allow that comment you did.
What are you trying to say? That Microsoft is guilty for *everything* they do until and if they get proved innocent? That kind of thinking is absurd and it is called “trolling”. I am sorry.
Okay Eugenia, here’s the proof. Go to Microsoft’s own webpage and read the white papers on .NET Server. Microsoft says themselves exactly what I posted (albeit in a less sarcastic, Microsofty kind of way).
You’ll find statements such as this, “By integrating the .NET Framework into the Windows .NET Server…”, and this, “ASP.NET is integrated with the IIS 6.0 process model and leverages support for multiple application pools.”. It looks like .NET has been successfully permeated throughout Windows Server .NET; just as I said.
I have provided the proof you asked for, so thanks for agreeing to let my non-trolling statement stay in the posts.
Geez, calm down everybody.
The name change sort of makes sense to me, if you consider that Microsoft may release several future versions of their products under the .NET brand. I know this is conjecture, but it is plausible.
The .NET brand is a bit confusing. The .NET technologies are not entirely new or innovative either. Neither is Java. Deal with that. MOST “new” tech that makes it into actual released products has been sitting on a computer scientist’s research shelf for a while. Product development is neither easy nor fast, and sometimes, ideas are before their time (see Apple).
That’s all for now.
–JM
As always, Java can do anything including baking my birthday cake.
Obviously your knowledge of Java is limited. I thought this was supposed to be about .NET; not Java.
Why is it so bad to have some competing technologies out there? .NET is no more hype than Java is.
Um, I beg to differ; not that its relevant to this discussion. .NET dev tools have been released, but the promises of .NET haven’t been delivered. I call that hype. Microsoft is making promises of what .NET will deliver at some future point, but I can already do all those things with Java today. One is tangible, one is not. One is hype and the other is not.
It is difficult to hype anything more than Java.
You have a point there. It’s not a good one, or even an accurate one, but it is nonetheless a point.
The second paragraph of your first post was pure trolling. A useless comment. Of course there is not much intelligent to say about the release date of a product. However, you felt it necessary to bash .NET just because of that.
No, I simply made a rancorous statement regarding Microsoft’s delay and said that it was probably due to them permeating Windows XP Server with .NET; which is accurate and valid. I could have gone into further detail, but chose not to. A trolling statement would be like yours about Java and a birthday cake; which is a very inaccurate statement without merit.
Now that is what I would call spreading an epidemic… Feel free to attack this comment, but your hipocrisy is ridiculous.
Actually, reading over your posts, and your trolling Java statements that have absolutely nothing to do with this article, causes me to find your hypocrisy both ridiculous and appalling.
Since this article is not about Java, I will refer you to the OSNews article that is, where you can read all my comments and opinions regarding Sun’s JVM being shipped with Windows.
In another life, before I had a lobotomy, (insert slur here)
I picked up a MSDN universal subscription so that I could keep
up with the goings on at Microsoft. Pricey, but for someone
doing a lot of work with microsoft stuff its a good deal.
For a variety of reasons I went full time open source towards
the end of 2001, and so did not use everything in the MSDN to
the fullest, but I feel got my moneys worth. GET the dvd version!!!
Just one more month and I would have gotten .NET visual studio or
whatever its called, but that is all I missed. ;.(
Now that .NET Server has been pushed back until sometime in 2003,
I am happy I got out.
Pushing new technology on customers that are happy with your
older products can be very difficult. The MSDN kit starts out
with a huge assortment of everything Microsoft has ever put out
except for 3.1(available over the net). And then every month
you get updates and what have you. blah blah blah. Just an
incredible number of products. Amazing that they keep it as
together as they do. I cannot imagine coordinating the effort
necessary to keep up with all of the existing products, let alone
developing brand new stuff. Maybe customers feel the same.
And with the increased emphasis on security its no wonder the
product -.NET Server = got pushed back.
I say .NET Server will out about April 2003. Wish em luck.
Maybe by then I will get the MSDN subscription again. Who knows.
— hey Camel- How’s the imageblaster business? In yet another former life
I used the heck out of altiris software in a lab I ran. Great
stuff.
Wow. Proof that something intelligent could be said about a product title and a ship date. I stand corrected.
The .NET brand is a bit confusing…
This is a very true statement. .NET means the framework in some discussions and it means the new development tools (or the entire suite of tools in VS.NET) at other times, and to some it is referring to the OS. Sun made exactly the same mistake by calling the runtime environment Java as well as the programming language.
The difference between Java and .NET, from a market confusion point of view, is that .NET isn’t just one language and one framework. It consists of ADO.NET, C#, J#, ASP.NET, etc. It is a conglomeration of technologies (some of which have been twisted to fit the new model, such as VB and ASP, which also causes confusion). It is interestingly enough this muddled mess that I don’t like about it. All of this leads to confusion.
Another confusing thing is that Microsoft is using the many .NET languages (and promising many more) as a marketing gimmick. They are saying .NET is a good thing for developers because you can intermingle objects from disparate languages into one product.
That sounds good to CEOs perhaps, but can you imagine the nightmare it would be to maintain a program written in VB, C#, J# and C++, etc. all at the same time? It’s one thing to do a front end in VB and a back end in C++, but can you imagine the frustration if objects were completely intermingled? It would be worse than maintaining scritps written in Perl.
— hey Camel- How’s the imageblaster business? In yet another former life
I used the heck out of altiris software in a lab I ran. Great
stuff.
It’s going extremely well. I used to be a lab administrator about 10 years ago and I would have killed for this stuff. The great thing is that our newer products are even more interesting. They almost make me wish I hadn’t taken up development (almost but not quite).
> You’ll find statements such as this, “By integrating the .NET Framework into the Windows .NET Server…”, and this, “ASP.NET is integrated with the IIS 6.0 process model and leverages support for multiple application pools.”.
My dear friend Camel, I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem with the stuff that Ms is integrating into their OWN OS. They should be left alone, to integrate whatever the hell they want. And the exact same goes for EVERY OTHER OS company out there.
The DOJ and people should chase Ms only on the bad business practices (like the MS story today we published on osnews), not about technology.
If they want to integrate a Porno-browser, let them do it. It is THEIR product and no one has a gun in his head to buy that product.
Please read our past comments on osnews about it, I am not going to reply again to you about this matter, and you should not either, because we are getting off topic, and I hate off topic comments on osnews. For the record, I am 100% *FOR* integrating browsers, servers and other utils to ANY OS, not against. What I am against, is that Ms plays dirty in the business arena, not in the technology one. In that arena, they should be indeed chased and spanked.
Read here:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=797
just some anti-M$ sentiment and since when did that become taboo?
Since I run this site El Al. I will not allow trolling here.
I am as open minded as it goes, but I DEMAND on MY site to only have intelligent conversations. Not trolling.
This story is about .Net server. Talk or troll about anything else and you get your ass first moderated down and then kicked out from here. I show zero tollerance on the issue.
If you want to troll and express “anti-M$ sentiment”, go to the other story up there, about the naked PCs. THIS story is about .NET server, not about “ms sucks”.
Am I understood?
I have said that a zillion times and I expect people to RESPECT the wishes of the people who run this site, in order to not end up a slashdot. Everyone should READ the posting rules before comment.
This is the last comment I write on this story.
I expect NO ONE to reply to this or to trolling comments, or you will get your comments deleted, not just moderated down. This is a promise.
yes maam!
Is this your real email address? I tried to email you.
Camel: Is anyone really suprised by this? Has Microsoft ever released a product on the originally scheduled date?
OS X was late by two years. Need I say more?
Camel, I’m very suprised you wrote this.
NET is ammo against Sun/Java that’s all. It’s all hype. I’m not impressed at all. Java can do all this and more. This is all just bad Baklava.
When Java was released, it was pure hype. Result? Corel and Adobe wasted millions of dollars. Countless books arriving at the stores. Etc. Sorry, but I think .NET is everybit of hype compared with java.
I can’t say on the technically standpoint of view, cause I never used it, and I only used Java for a very short period of time (and I practically forgot how to program in it).
Charles Goodwin: Whilst .NET is interesting, it would be naive to assume they didn’t have some underlying agenda with it.
They do have an secret agenda to it. Windows monopoly is coming to an end. They know this, they know they can’t stop it. I’m not being an overly-optimistic Linux troll, but that’s facts. Linux is getting on strong in third world countries, and these markets would one day exceed the current establish markets.
So, they want something in which they have a say in.
Camel: A trolling statement would be like yours about Java and a birthday cake; which is a very inaccurate statement without merit.
It an obvious sacarstic comment.
Delete my post if you absolutely need to, but I did not Troll. I said something that was absolutely true.
A troll is: “…someone who posts for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion.”, and, “trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand – they simply want to utter flame bait.”
I didn’t do either of these things. I am very versed in what I said, and as I have proven to you through Microsoft own links, I am correct in saying what I did. I spead no FUD, I spread no lies, and I was certainly not trolling.
My dear friend Camel, I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem with the stuff that Ms is integrating into their OWN OS…
Did I say anything other than .NET Server’s delays were probably because they were intertwining .NET into it? NO. Why are you changing the subject?
OS X was late by two years. Need I say more? Java 1.4 was late as well, but since this was a post about Windows being late, I simply asked if anyone was suprised by it. Windows ship dates have never once been on time, so why is it newsworthy? It’s just the status quo.
Camel, I’m very suprised you wrote this.
If you are referring to the “Baklava” comment, I didn’t write that. I love baklava and would never speak its name in a negative context.
When Java was released, it was pure hype. Result? Corel and Adobe wasted millions of dollars. Countless books arriving at the stores. Etc. Sorry, but I think .NET is everybit of hype compared with java.
Yes, Java was rolled out to every corner of the bookstore for a while there. That was then, but now, Java is already delivering on the .NET promise. I’m talking about now. Also, I think the difference is that Java was not pounded down anyone’s throat like .NET is. With .NET Server, you won’t have a choice to use it or not (as you do with Java). Microsoft says you WILL use it; period.
They do have an secret agenda to it.
I totally agree with you.
Camel: A trolling statement would be like yours about Java and a birthday cake; which is a very inaccurate statement without merit.
It an obvious sacarstic comment.
I know, but my point is that a troll statement is one that is inaccurate and designed to cause a bunch of newbie internet people to post myriad statements to correct the troll’s inaccuracies. Java being able to bake a cake is a far-fetched inaccuracy, which is what trolling usually consists of. I didn’t do that, and that was the point I was trying to convey.
and the phrase ‘pissed with power’ springs to mind.
El Al just relocated his Home page. See ya….bye!
Ahhh, I’ll teach them to post contrary ideas. Revenge is sweetest when served cold. I’ll hide in the shadows and jump out at them every now and again with a devastating quip, which cuts to the soul. I’ll expose and exploit their nescience… Oh what the hell, I’ll just delete all their posts.
Yes, there’s nothing like inviting a bunch of people over to your web page, offering them the chance to discuss an article, relying on them to receive funds from your advertising and then telling them all to shut the hell up or get the hell of this site.
Why do I keep offering my patronage? Pehaps I’ll cease.
Delete away Eugenia.
As I wrote to El Al, the people who do not understand what I am trying to preserve with OSNews (quality in discussion), are the people who I WANT THEM to leave, ANYWAY.
So, please, do leave.
I do not get paid over here, so I do not “receive funds from your advertising”, so I do not give a flying f*ck. What I do want though, is the OSNews readers to have intelligent discussions over here. And it is my “job” to make sure that I preserve this.
Camel: Windows ship dates have never once been on time, so why is it newsworthy? It’s just the status quo.
Yeah, I agree. Windows 3.5/ 95 shipped 6 months late, IIRC. No major software company ever shipped everything on time.
Camel: was then, but now, Java is already delivering on the .NET promise.
Once of .NET’s promise is to allow programmer’s their choice of programmig language, something Java doesn’t deliver, and probably never will.
My position is the same as your’s. Java is much more mature than .NET because it has been at the market for years now. .NET just came out. But my point was Java was maturing much more faster than java did when it was first released.
PS: Camel, don’t leave. The forums would get boring. All Eugenia is trying to do is make sure non-inteligent posts (troll) get a hold of OSNews like it did with Slashdot. Your post sounded a bit trollish, if someone doesn’t know your background. Just make up, say sorry, forgive, forget, debate like there’s no tommorrow.
first off, all i EVER did was to express my belief that Camels original post was NOT a troll. For that reason, I got publicly ‘chastized’ by Eugenia. I resent that. I believe it was a public flaming totally out of context to the remarks I made. However, I made a second post that was almost immediately deleted and to which Eugenia saw fit to email me in private chastizing me for a second time.
I reiterate, all I ever did was to express my belief that Camels original post was not a troll.
None of this makes much difference and to coin Eugenias oft used: I dont really give a flying f*ck about OSNews, I just want all to be clear on the facts as they relate to me.
Please, Eugenia, refrain from emailing me, there is absolutely no need.
As I told you on the email, if you really do not understand why I do the things I do and how I need to keep a level of quality discussion over here, you better leave as well. It will be best for ALL.
> all i EVER did was to express my belief that Camels original post was NOT a troll
You are not the one who decides that. I AM.
If you do not agree, you should be emailing ME, you should not post off-topic here and have all this discussion right now.
Once of .NET’s promise is to allow programmer’s their choice of programmig language, something Java doesn’t deliver, and probably never will.
Actually, there are a bunch of languages that support writing to the JVM; and a lot of conversion tools which can take, for example, VB code and compile it to work with a JVM. In fact, currently there are far more languages that can write to a JVM than ones that can write to the .NET runtime. Some languages that can be used to write to a JVM include Smalltalk, Eiffle, Tcl, C++, Python, Ruby, Forth, Cobol, Prolog, Lisp, Logo, and a bunch of others.
This article is sinking down on the article list, so you may never read this; but I’ll post it anyway and hope.
As I wrote to El Al, the people who do not understand what I am trying to preserve with OSNews (quality in discussion), are the people who I WANT THEM to leave, ANYWAY.
I think we all, at least those of us who have frequented your site for a while, know your posting rules. My first post in this discussion was terse, yes, but it was not invalid or meant as a troll.
When you called me a troll, I tried to defend my position, to which you responded, “If you can prove the opposite then I will allow that comment you did.” I did prove that what I said was acurate. Why didn’t this discussion end there? You asked for validation and I offered it. We should have been content at that point should we not?
What I do want though, is the OSNews readers to have intelligent discussions over here. And it is my “job” to make sure that I preserve this.
I think that every post I have ever made on OSNews has been intelligent. I love talking about technology and discussing opposing views in regards to technology. If my posts have strayed from that I apologize.
You are not the one who decides that. I AM.
No, actually, I am. I am the master of my posts and of my opinions. They are all mine, created and controlled by me, and I will decide, via documentation, knowledge and first hand experience what is valid for me to say. When I’m wrong, I will judge that, and as I have several times in the past, I will offer an apology.
So, please, do leave.
I may be wrong, but isn’t the point of having a web site so that people will look at it? If you don’t want that, then why have a web site at all? It looks like you put forth a lot of effort into this thing and it looks very nice. Your articles are interesting and frequent. Since you put so much effort into it, why not act like a business owner and treat your customers with some respect so they will continue to offer their patronage?
I’m not offended or bothered that you called me a troll. I only speak when I have something to say and I only post opinions that I can back up with fact, documentation and experience. I will admit that my first post could be taken as ill informed bashing since it was terse, but I assure you it wasn’t intended as a troll. I simply tried to make that clear, which seems to have aggravated you. If my post was that offensive to you, then know that I’m sorry and I am not offended or irritated at you personally in any way regarding posts you directed at me.
However, the unprovoked, angered response to El Al I found completely unwarranted. If I went into a restaurant and sat down expecting a pleasant meal, but was instead treated to the owner kicking a guy in the stomach for mispronouncing Falafel, I would stand up and walk out and leave that business owner to his self-inflicted demise.
That is the point at which I find myself regarding your site because of your abusive behavior towards El Al (and others in the past). His post wasn’t a troll or off topic (since the topic had already been brought up), but it seems to me you verbally flayed him. Not only in public here, but personally through his private email.
I know you are trying to keep OSNews from becoming a Slashdot (although I’m not entirely sure what you mean), but personal, directed verbal abuse can’t be excused and will certainly result in a site patronaged by only new people; until they realize what kind of site it is.
I apologize if my post offended you. I hold nothing against you at all. I also readily apologized to Rajan r when I let my irritation of many ill-informed (not posted by Rajan r) Java comments get the better of me and I posted overly sarcastic remarks that I considered inappropriate.
I would hope in the spirit of making OSNews a better place than Slashdot (where you can be verbally abused, called names, profaned at, etc. on a per-post basis), you would extend a sincere apology to El Al since it was me you were irritated at, not El Al.
Thank you.
Here is the problem with java: Sun. Sun even it was the original creator, doesn’t earn better than its competitors. IBM and other companies make more money from java, than Sun does. Sun, is not a very focused company. They do hardware, software sometimes, but mainly hardware. Sun realized that they hit the jackpot with Java, but they couldn’t deliver the promises and now they are sueing Microsoft, but they will not get anything out of that court. Actually even C|Net which is heavily anti-Microsoft site critized Sun’s accusations, because most of them were meaningless.
Java is good at the server side. Actually you can still use java with .net. .net does have its own language called C#, which is better than Java in many respects. It is almost the same actually, but have some strong advantages, such as getting rid of certain speed penalties of Java. Since Java tries to support as much platform as possible, they don’t do certain optimizations. But C# and Microsoft doesn’t have to do the same, so you will get more with C# than you get with Java in Intel platforms.
But the core of .net is actually about the protocols used to exchange data, the way components interact with each other, the language tools, the developer environments, the speed. Microsoft developed SOAP and now it is a well supported protocol. Sun originally didn’t support this, but later they changed their mind. IBM is on the same ship as Microsoft, so this points to the fact that, Microsoft has support from the big blue.
.net is a very well thought project. Microsoft developed everything about making this thing work, writing applications and interacting with each other on the net. They have products which work on these protocols. Sun and other companies are still trying to develop something similar to Passport, whereas Passport was a reality.
Java is good at the server side. Actually you can still use java with .net.
Yes, you can use J# to write apps for .NET. The thing I don’t like about doing it this way is that it is not cross-platform (at least not yet) and it relies too heavily on what I consider to be inferior technologies (Read ASP).
.net does have its own language called C#, which is better than Java in many respects. It is almost the same actually, but have some strong advantages, such as getting rid of certain speed penalties of Java.
I’ve written several server side applications in both Java and C# that do exactly the same things. The speed was pretty exactly the same as far as I could tell. The speed issue that people have with Java is usually Swing (although it is significantly less an issue now than it used to be). You don’t usually use Swing components in server programming.
Actually, I’ve said many times in these forums that C# is an excellent language. However, it is more comparable to VisualBasic, Delphi, C++, etc. than it is to Java. It would be more like Java if Microsoft would have removed the ASP.NET requirement and built those capabilities into C#. It is an excellent technology to use for Windows Desktop apps, but isn’t that impressive to me for server programming due to all the other technologies you must bind together with it in order for it to work. For example, on my project at work, I had to embed JavaScript into my C# code and then compile it into an ASP.NET component and then plug that into an ASP.NET page. When something goes wrong, I have to debug it in far to many places. I prefer Java technologies where I only have to use HTML and one language; thus limiting my debugging efforts to a single codebase.
Since Java tries to support as much platform as possible, they don’t do certain optimizations.
That isn’t why they optimize things the way they do. HotSpot works based on the idea that only the most frequently executed portions of a program need to be optimized. It is called dynamic compilation. It looks at your program and decides which parts need to be optimized and which optimizations to use. Languages like C or C++ cannot do this and therefore must optimize every last portion of your program, no matter how minute the section of code may be.
There are many aspects of every program written that don’t get executed very often (if at all). HotSpot’s optimizations take advantage of that and only optimize the parts most commonly used in a program using statistics gathered about its use. This makes your program compile, load and execute faster. It also can compile portions of your code down to machine code. Dynamic compilation makes optimizations possible that are entirely beyond the ability of languages like C++.
But C# and Microsoft doesn’t have to do the same, so you will get more with C# than you get with Java in Intel platforms.
Does that mean anything? What does optimizing error handling code or rarely accessed code buy you? Any optimizations in these areas will probably only be seen by system testers; not consumers.
As I understand it, and I could be completely wrong, C# is compiled down to bytecode, which is then compiled down to machine code and saved on the client machine. Subsequent use of the program simply calls the machine code instead of interpreting the byte code again; unless there is an update to the code.
The problem I see with this model, not that it matters that much, is that there can be no determination of the code’s common usage under this model; thus no dynamic compilations and no premium optimizations can take place.
>Yes, you can use J# to write apps for .NET.
Wrong. You can also use real Java with .NET.
>No, actually, I am. I am the master of my posts and of my opinions.
Yes, you are. But I am the master of this site. So, if you do not want to see your posts moderated down, you should comply with rules of the intelligent discussion and not trolling.
This is the last warning. Further comments on the subject will be moderated down.
Actually, there are a bunch of languages that support writing to the JVM[…]
This isn’t the same. But what’s the use, I’m sure there is someone else that knows the topic more than me would have already replied to you already 😛