The latest release of Mac-On-Linux now includes MacOS X support. Check out these screenshots of MacOSX 10.2, also known as Jaguar, running under Linux. Please note that Mac-On-Linux is not an emulator, but it’s more like VMWare, therefore, it can only run on some PPC hardware.
I was checking this shot yesterday:
http://www.maconlinux.net/sshots/pic11.jpg
and was immediately thinking how nice and clean OSX looks, and how “cheap” KDE looks.
The fonts and their shadows, icons and overall design just feels great on OSX, while KDE just feels cheap and loaded.
On the other hand, (even) KDE is faster than OSX on scrolling/resizing and overall UI responsiveness.
Talking about trade-offs….
As i know, you can run MOL on non Apple PPC hardware, like AmigaOne. So, for the first time there is OS X on hardware that is not made by Apple.
That shot at KDE was a bit unnecessary. Besides, I’ve got my KDE setup (Keramik) looking a bit nicer than OS X, IMO. Besides, OS X on my laptop screen would be unusable. Its hard to use “white” type themes when you’re staring at a powerful backlight. Under KDE a color change is a few clicks away. Under OS X, its far less easy.
> I’ve got my KDE setup (Keramik) looking a bit nicer than OS X, IMO.
You are forgetting that DEFAULTS matter, not whatever configurations that might be available. As of NOW, KDE 3.03, that is the default look of KDE.
And something else: I too use the Keramik and the Connectiva Crystal icons which are much better than the defaults found on today’s stable KDE. However, when you look at that modified KDE desktop and then again, the OSX, the OSX still looks better. It has more consistency, the fonts look better, and the dock is not as loaded with different concepts as found all of them in the form of plugins on Kicker. OSX is just simpler and cleaner.
As for the white theme of OSX, a lot of people are using iBooks/PBooks and LCDs with Macs. I haven’t heard anyone saying “yikes! it’s so white!”. If yes, then your gamma needs fixing.
(BTW, I do not like Keramik that much. Connectiva Crystal icons are nice indeed. But Keramic, I have my problems with it: http://www.eugenia.co.uk/images/keramik.png )
The first thing that stuck out to me was the non-aqua UI in that NPD window.
From my point of view, defaults are to be changed. Of course they matter, but nobody is the same. I was instructed, at driving classes, that whenever I sit down on a different car, check mirros, seat distance, etc. so I feel comfortable and avoid accidents. When you buy a pair of shoes, they always give you some pain until they adapt to your feet, not the other way round. Of course, the default shoes are usable because they are my number, but they are not okay until the get the proper shape and flexibility.
gnome doesn’t, but kde greets you with a first time wizard in order to set your defaults, so every choice is a default.
I think not all defaults matters that much, and maybe a hierachy could be discussed. But, from my point of view, the look kde or keramik, doesn’t really matter, as long you can get the one you like.
yours: nestor di
I’m not going to bother with this site anymore (I am sure you won’t be too disappointed). I did like it – the articles and many of the comments I have read since coming here have been quite informative at times, but the ot trolling now is ridiculous, particularly when it comes from the “owner” of the site.
Not very professional.
It is not the same with computer UIs. The _vast_ majority of the users (and I am not talking about the 1% of the world’s users that happen to be power users – but for the rest 99% who are Joe Users) do not change anything in their desktop. In fact, in many cases, if you change their desktop a bit, they will start shouting at you that you “broke it” and that it will need… re-installation of the OS (yes, I have seen cases of such hysterical replies).
Most importantly, in most professional workplaces, employees are not allowed to change the default settings.
Therefore, defaults matter, and these defaults should be the ones that look and act the best way they can for all users.
Not a very relevant post… but anyone agrees that that is the cutest logos ever of something related to Linux?
>but the ot trolling now is ridiculous
I do NOT troll. I write my opinion as a UI designer, by watching that screenshot.
I did say that KDE/X11 is faster than OSX at the end of the day and that this is a trade off. I really do not see any trolling there.
If you are a KDE user and you got pissed off because you can’t handle the OBVIOUS problem of the KDE UI against OSX, excuse me, but you are just blind. It is your zealotry at work, not my trolling.
>I’m not going to bother with this site anymore
Goodbye, and send us a postcard too.
Yes, that logo is really nice
Ok this post is not relevant but you started a KDE/Keramic topic so it’s your fault for me posting a non-relevant topic
I’ve seen some screen shots of the KDE’s Keramik style, I am not impressed at all. It’s not consistent at all. Im my opinion, dialog box background simply doesn’t match with how the buttons and tabs look like. IMO WinXP and MacOS X look is still 1 000 000 better then how KDE looks with the Keramik style. I don’t get, when will the KDE folks learn….Also, just look at how HUGE the dialog boxes are and they only have a few elements inside. They only take up screen space. For one or two buttons and a frame and a tab, they create GIGENTIC dialog box. Check out the KDE’s “Find Files” dialog for example. There is no need for such gigantic dialog boxes. PLEASE, do NOT tell me to change the resolution, I like 800×600.
http://www.eugenia.co.uk/images/keramik.png
Well, I cannot admit that nobody touches the default appearance of their Os. But, I think this is a problem of education. People of certain ages, found at first a computer at their desk, substituting the typerwriter. Does anybody customize typewritters? no, so they live it as it is. Something more, with the early windows there was very little chance to customize anything, so why learn it later on? I have seen a child of ten, sitting down at a computer with w98 and changing the style to green (ugly but he likes it) this is the next generation, and they are not afraid of touching the comp. They learn faster and they want it to look their way. Generalising is an error in most cases (and I said in most to not generalise)
Linux is heavy using themes, is ready for the next generation, as there are people that buys this colourful plastic stuff to put it on the cell phone. Is not hard, is not painful, is a choice.
If the default of linux would be a plain screen (like a plain sawfish window manager) I would agree with you that defaults matters in this case for a desktop use. But if they find Labels, wizards, help, a book in the box, etc, the explanation to not touch anything is because is okay for them or they don’t even notice.
######I must admit that not everybody touches……….
sorry
So i got an iBook to type notes on for school and generally use for school work and i really do like how easy to use osX is but i do miss many things that i like about Enlightenment as far as a windows manager. Mainly customizability that i had in E such as being able to change how almost everything feels and works and also there is of course how E is faster than osX for some things but is not in others. Overall OSX is great but macs are expensive things… i guess i was used to getting all my software for free in the linux world and this has spoiled me
Did everyone see these in the M-O-L FAQs?
Q: Does MOL run on the AmigaOne hardware (or in general, on non-Apple hardware)?
A: It does. MOL runs on any PowerPC hardware (except 601-based systems). However, the EULA of MacOS prohibits its usage on non-Apple hardware (it is of course perfectly legal to use MOL to boot a second Linux thoiugh).
Q: Does it run on i386 hardware?
A: No, MOL can only run on PowerPC hardware since no emulation is performed. However, I am considering adding a PowerPC emulator for x86 to MOL.
@Christian
Quote:”However, the EULA of MacOS prohibits its usage on non-Apple hardware”
I was wondering, If I purchase the OS via an approved legal channel and run on hardware that is “non apple” eg AmigaOne exactly how can Apple enforce the EULA.
Surely having a legaly purchased copy should give me some rights to run the software.
Perhaps the MS share ownership of Apple is starting to rub off some “monopolistic” bad habits…
Regards
Darren
Is it just me or is the MOL logo featured in so many of those screenshots just plain adorable? Big ‘ol softie me.
Most importantly, in most professional workplaces, employees are not allowed to change the default settings.
How I wish we were still allowed to hang employees up by their thumbs for changing desktop settings. *sigh* I never get to have fun anymore…
Eugenia: You are forgetting that DEFAULTS matter, not whatever configurations that might be available. As of NOW, KDE 3.03, that is the default look of KDE.
Keramik and Crystal would be default in KDE 3.1. Hopefully one day tehy would use Xft2 and have better AA.
nestor di: Well, I cannot admit that nobody touches the default appearance of their Os. But, I think this is a problem of education.
No, it mostly isn’t a problem of education. In my dad’s workplace for example, he isn’t allow to even change the desktop wallpaper. And I can safely say most desktop users are corporate users.
Christian Bayer: Q: Does it run on i386 hardware?
A: No, MOL can only run on PowerPC hardware since no emulation is performed. However, I am considering adding a PowerPC emulator for x86 to MOL.
Well, you so could run a second Linux, hehehe. Just like what you have to do with MOL on non-Apple Macs.
newbee: I was wondering, If I purchase the OS via an approved legal channel and run on hardware that is “non apple” eg AmigaOne exactly how can Apple enforce the EULA.
They probably can’t catch you. But if one day the BSA knocks on your door for a suprise spotcheck, bye bye AmigaOne.
newbee: Perhaps the MS share ownership of Apple is starting to rub off some “monopolistic” bad habits…
Apple had this since the day Macintosh was born. And at that time, Microsoft wasn’t a monopoly. Plus, this is totally legal. And I would say ethical. They made the fucking OS to sell the hardware. They make *little* to *no* money from the retail packs.
i really enjoyed running mol on my g3 before (i miss it very much) .. linuxppc was a fun community, a nice bunch of guys.
kde was indeed very fast feeling on the g3, where when i tried macosx (admittedly 10.0) it was unsuable.
the actual linuxppc install is quite unpolished and very krusty, but good fun once you get it all running. i used mol in fullscreen mode with macos9 and used photoshop and ie through it and it is indeed beautiful. what would be wonderful about this is being able to run a linuxppc install with mol and allowing vnc connection to both of the virtual machines. would be a great setup for webtesting if you worked at a webdevelopment shop…
those screen shots really make me miss my g3 …. (sigh)
This is not meant to be a flamebait, but why would anyone want to run linux on Apple hardware in the first place? I mean, OS X is way better than any Linux distro out there (I’m using Suse 8.0 on a PC right now, and although it does a lot of things right, its still nowhere near the ease of use & polish of OS X). And since OS X is UNIX, it can run most (if not all) apps by recompiling them. So why would anyone want to do this?
..being able to run Linux/KDE and OSX on the same screen not a good enuff reason 🙂 ?
As for the MacOS EULA – they have in the past let it be known that the use of the Mac OS on emulators on the Windows platform wasn’t a cause of concern for them.
However this may be because those emulators could only run versions up to MacOS 8.1 ( BasiliskII ) and can’t handle PPC Apps.
Someone Mentioned the Amega One, But another Computer that might be able to run OS X with this is IBM’s RS 6000 (Pseries) And Similar Machines. And no I don’t thing Apple is going to take your Computer away for doing it.
newbee: Perhaps the MS share ownership of Apple is starting to rub off some “monopolistic” bad habits…
MS does not Own any part of Apple, what they got in there deal with Apple was non Voting Stock which I thing they sold.
Oh and I read someware else that you can Boot BeOS on MOL
This is very interesting stuff.
http://www.lowendmac.com/ppclinux/02/0530.html
Am I the only one that doesn’t like Aqua/WinXP/Keramik? I’m an adult, not a kid that likes to watch some Teletubbies show..
Agreed… in XP I only use the classic theme. (XP defaults sucks IMO, defaults always have in Windows…)
In Linux I don’t use KDE primarily, but when I do I prefer the QNX theme. Proffessional and minimalistic. MacOSX looks like MacOS 9 with a huge dockbert and magnified XP icons IMO.
Long live Blackbox, BeOS and Win2k
If you consider the stage of development for the GUI’s, KDE has only been released for 4 years; Mac’s OS? ~15 years. Same for Gnome. Not that pretty out of the box for either of them, but give them a couple of more years of development and I believe they’ll be right up there with OSX.
It’s amazing how immature you are Eugenia. You have zero integrity when it comes to your journalism (If it can be called that). You lack any sense of objectivity and you cannot take that which you dish out.
Regardless of which person is running this website, you, Eugenia, should be ashamed of your lack of professional maturity when it comes to running this website.
Time and time again you sputter out drivel when somebody doesn’t like what is posted. Perhaps you should change careers and become a “home maker”. Please retire for the rest of your life, get pregnat and become barefoot. Do us all a favor.
You certainly don’t belong in this environment.
Everything Jimbo said
I agree %100 :p
That is exactly what I’ve been thinking 🙂
But remember, Eugenia has the sole power to mod you down, and she will. Just like this post.
Yes, she’s a bit fierce at times.. but wouldn’t anyone be if they had to deal with jerks like you on a daily basis as well as living in a sh**hole like the USA?
..bet you’re just p155ed off cos your flames got modded.
for those of you with your feelings hurt… go away. i on the other hand like what she posts and the way she expresses herself. her opinions are direct, maybe harsh and make sense (at least to me), but at least remember that they are her own. i dont see how they make her look any less professional. sounds like you want her to sugar coat her comments or something.
>Agreed… in XP I only use the classic theme. (XP defaults
>sucks IMO, defaults always have in Windows…)
I use the Silver theme (essentially the same as the default, just different colours). It took a little while to grow on me, but now it bugs me that I have to use 2k at work (they haven’t gotten all of their in-house apps working on XP yet, they were just barely working on 2k when XP was released). The blue theme is a bit jarring to me, and the olive theme, though tolerable, has some irritating points as well. The new WMP beta has some features that only work on XP as well (from what I’ve gathered some of them are limitations in the old taskbar, others seem like they should work fine but just aren’t there in 2k).
In a perfect world I’d probably make the XP silver theme a bit more ‘professional’ (ditch the red close button and green start button), but overall I prefer it to the older ‘classic’ look.
I can see that when somebody brings up some truth, that is, nobody has ever face a customizable desktop and due to this fact he/she has been educated to not touch anything, Eugenia doesn’t use her “default” behaviour, which is to say:
Linux desktop sucks
MacosX is slow
windows it’s best
Beos is/was the God of all desktop OSs.
In computers and technology, there is always a factor, a very important one, which is the human factor. In this case, mili seconds to startup an app, or milimeters between menu entries doesn’t count. Indeed they are important, but not as much as GUI designers has told us.
The fact is that for many time and in many computers, the only OSs allowed was (and is) Microsofts products, and this fact have educated comp users with the force of no choice. Is easy to make a standard, not based in scientific theories, but with money figures.
But now, I am pretty sure, people like themeing, skinning, even Ms if allowing this in their own apps, because is the new(old) fashion. As long as user discover that they can change the behaviour of their desktop as easy in win as in linux, they will not feel bad or confused. The only problem is to ever now there are other choices. Walmart is in this move, and here, at spain, one of this nationwide franchises where you can buy computers or build your own one in a box or cabin(pcbox) is installing for free linux.
In any case, linux motto is not “A linux box in every home”, is more like “we have no motto” so if you ever install linux is because you want to, for no reason and for all reasons. Of course, learning what opensource means, and feeling the free knowledge air in your face, could be great, and many people could start questioning some things. I hope so or else this funny world is going nowhere.
Yours: nestor di
I like this topic (interface aesthetics) a lot, so I’m a bit sad that I didn’t spot this earlier.
– Desktop:
I completely agree that the KDE desktop default is _horrible_. As for fonts I believe that bold and antialiased looks best (and of course a good font but that we can’t have yet). Like Nautilus and MacOS seem to use by default. Shadows are very nifty, again MacOS and Nautilus have this (I have to say though that the Nautilus shadow looks very plain and boring compared to the MacOS shadows). Icons could also be better. I like the desktop icons of Nautilus (antialiased, sometimes transparent, nice design, shadows for thumbnails, curved etc) and I believe that those can rival those of MacOS.
But worst of all (on KDE) are the underlined icons. What did they think when “webifying” the desktop? I believe that IE6 even doesn’t underline links by default anymore (or was it Opera) so I’m probably not the only one who noticed how incredible cheap that looks. But on a desktop it’s pure horror. Add to this that when the desktop is focused, one iconname gets a dotted gray border. This btw is a problem of most widgets in KDE. There is also a lot of flickering which makes it look even more cheap. I don’t want to flame the good KDE guys but this constantly turns me off when looking at a KDE desktop. Could be improved. =)
– Panels:
Both GNOME and KDE panels indeed look very messy. :/ The beauty of the MacOS panel is that it’s simpel and the nice, transparent color. I can change the color of my GNOME panel and it actually looks good then, but only if I don’t have any applets on it. Almost every applet looks gray and has some weird borders that just don’t fit to the panel color… Evil. Kicker is also bad, way too much clutter and elements.
Then look at the GNOME menupanel… Uargh! It’s just a plain gray area, it doesn’t even have a border. The only good thing about it are the rounded borders. But I can’t even change the color on this one! I made mine suck less by appying a transparent shadow PNG as wallpaper. It’s faked but it works for the time beeing.
The KDE desktop menu was even worse last time I checked.
The thing that has to be noted here is that (besides of the desktop menus) the part that really sucks are the applets. The panels itself aren’t that bad. But the applets have to look “smoother”, less borders and such and more consistent.
– Widget styles:
I share the opinion that Keramik is not exciting. It looks rather cheap actually. The only good thing about it are the buttons IMO. Yes I tried Keramik and while I rather liked it from the screenshots, it immediately turned me off when I actually got to use it. The XP and Aqua styles also provide some eye candy (XP not so much though) but much more polished, solid and consistent. They aren’t a mess like Keramik and a lot less annoying than Crux (the GNOME style by Eazel with way too much gradients). The most polished Linux style that I could use so far was/is the new Red Hat Bluecurve. It is still very gray though but at least it’s not annoying and has some nice touches of a nice blue (active titlebar, selected menu items or progressbars).
I also agree that themeing has a great future, as it’s obvious that people like to give the things they use a lot a unique style. But that doesn’t mean changing every bit and that you need to be an artist to make your desktop actually look good. The only thing that should be changed by themes are color schemes and the look on the surface. And the default one has to rock, as this is how most people will judge the software.
And finally I’m absolutely optimistic that we will see a lot of improvements into this area, especially if more people with a good taste (no, taste is not subjective) volunteer and help polishing the desktops.
Companies will provide the neccessary artwork.